bhaysd Posted October 27, 2011 Report Share Posted October 27, 2011 I'm looking to return to hard-booting. My last hard setup was a Burton PJ Asym, so I go back a ways.... I see step-in bindings are available as well as 'traditional' hard bindings. Any advantages to either? Are boot requirements different? Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Puddy Tat Posted October 27, 2011 Report Share Posted October 27, 2011 Modern snowboard hardboots are all step-in compatible. And all step in systems seem to use the same boot interface shape at the heel. If you look at a modern boot heel, Deeluxe, Head or UPZ, the heel rubber is removable to allow the installation of a step-in module. Please keep in mind when I say modern I'm thinking of anything newer than about 15 years ago. Take a look at the boot heel for a funny rubber shape, if the shape of the rubber piece looks flat where it interfaces with the boot plastic it's not step-in compatible. On the other hand if it looks like the one on the green boot below (UPZ RC-10) with heel pieces that would be shaped like the red ones below if they were removed then it is step in compatible. There are three step-in systems currently in common use only two of which are still being manufactured. A) Intec -by F2, (also a similar interface by Bomber referred to as the Fintec) - uses a heel piece with spring loaded pins that come out the side of the heel piece to lock you into the binding. In North America probably the most common of the systems. B) F.A.S.T. System from Snowpro. Seems to be the reverse of an Intec in that the locking mechanism is contain in the binding and the heel is the receiver. Still uses two lateral pins. C) Burton Physics, discontinued but still in use. Uses two vertical pins on the binding with rings in the boot heel. Step-ins provide a more laterally rigid boot-binding interface than a standard toe bail non-step-in binding. Free carvers, those of us who don't like bending over, or people who typically ride hills with limited vertical, like step-ins for the convience. Free carvers also like a more laterally rigid binding because they don't have to deal with the kind of rutted up terrain that racers do, and it allows a faster edge response due to the lateral rigidity. Racers, and others prefer standard toe bail bindings. Standard toe bails provide more lateral movement (forgiveness), which allows them to absorb terrain irregularities and keeps them from getting kicked around by ruts on race courses. All that being said I'm a freecarver, and I ride step-ins for both carving and all-mountain riding because I really like the convience. I'd love something with lateral flex especially for the AM riding but I dislike bending over to do up toe bails because I'm totally inflexible. So it's a bit of a matter of choice and depends on you and what you are intending to ride. BTW some of the information on "The Carver's Almanac" is getting out of date as it was last updated in 2007. But it still has some very good information on this subject. Check out (www.alpinecarving.com) under bindings you will find a section on step-in versus regular bindings. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bhaysd Posted October 27, 2011 Author Report Share Posted October 27, 2011 Thanks for the great info. Moonlight is typically all mountain for me: steep and deep off the Headwaters, followed by a tree run, finishing with a carving groomer to the lift. Step-ins also have the convenience appeal, so they sound like the preferred choice for me. But I've got 2 other considerations: budget and boot size. Finding some used gear right now is the preference. It's all about the budget. Used Intec or bail bindings seem to show up here pretty regularly. I've also got a US mens size 13 shoe (30-31 Mondo). I understand bail bindings will accept traditional ski boots, so it may be more cost effective (if less performance) to get some used TD-1s, and a good (on sale) pair of ski boots. Finding intec compatible boots in my size may cost too much, if I can't find them used. Any suggestions for where to look? Am I missing some info that'll help me get into the intec setup? Thanks again for all you info. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Puddy Tat Posted October 27, 2011 Report Share Posted October 27, 2011 Thanks for the great info.Moonlight is typically all mountain for me: steep and deep off the Headwaters, followed by a tree run, finishing with a carving groomer to the lift. Step-ins also have the convenience appeal, so they sound like the preferred choice for me. But I've got 2 other considerations: budget and boot size. Finding some used gear right now is the preference. It's all about the budget. Used Intec or bail bindings seem to show up here pretty regularly. I've also got a US mens size 13 shoe (30-31 Mondo). I understand bail bindings will accept traditional ski boots, so it may be more cost effective (if less performance) to get some used TD-1s, and a good (on sale) pair of ski boots. Finding intec compatible boots in my size may cost too much, if I can't find them used. Any suggestions for where to look? Am I missing some info that'll help me get into the intec setup? Thanks again for all you info. Personally, I'd go with snowboard hardboots over ski boots. Ski boots really limit your ability to shift your weight around and inhibit your learning curve. That being said a guy near me used to carve circles around me in ski boots. However last year he dropped some coin and picked up some Deeluxe 325s and it took his riding to a whole different level. My suggestion is post what you are looking for in the Want To Buy (WTB) section of the classifieds. UPZs come up to 30-30.5, Deeluxe depends on model (Track 700 go to a mondo 30 while the 325 goes to size 31) The Head Stratos pro also goes to a 31. Personally I'd ask for a boot in your mondo size that was step-in compatible. You're kind of lucky and unlucky at the same time in that your feet are so big boots of that size don't sell that quickly, but at the same time they don't come up so often either. Here's a link to a set of mondo 30 stratos pros on sale now in the classified section. www.bomberonline.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=34999&highlight=mondo You can find more by searching mondo 30 or mondo 31 in the for sale section Best of luck Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sinecure Posted October 27, 2011 Report Share Posted October 27, 2011 Sole length on a ski boot with your war canoes is going to be really long. Probably too long for some traditional bail bindings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Puddy Tat Posted October 27, 2011 Report Share Posted October 27, 2011 ...war canoes... :lol: I am so storing that for reuse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philw Posted October 27, 2011 Report Share Posted October 27, 2011 All of the above. I switched to Intecs when they came out because they really were a much more solid interface than I'd been able to get with "traditional" bindings - they just felt more solid from 1st step in. I've had no failures and they're fast and easy on piste. Better, in powder if you have to negotiate a flat then I'm out and paddling quicker than I could be with clips (and way quicker than the people with the tie-wrap bindings). The cables wear eventually, but they will fail safe. You may want to replace the cables if you buy second hand with any wear. I've never had any of this stuff fail. I'm aware that racers use clips, for the precise reasons I use step-ins. Kind of worrying really, from a street cred point of view. But then I don't want any more trouble with the speed cops. It is funny watching them try to work out precisely how you bollock a 50 year old bloke with a legal team though. Ski boots... I could never get as solid an interface between ski boots and any snowboard binding, which is kind of why I switched to snowboard boots. The early snowboard (hard) boots were broadly crap, but newer ones are much better. Of course if you have ski boots then that's a cost saving option. I learnt on Dynafit 3F Comp S race boots. But you have more choices. You may find people here who switched to step-ins who have functional clip bindings still around (they're simpler than Intecs so less likely to not work). I've some, but I'm on the wrong contient. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boardguru Posted October 27, 2011 Report Share Posted October 27, 2011 I'll be trying out TD-3 SI this winter. I've always rode bail type plate bindings, it will be interesting to see the difference in "clipping in" by just stepping down vs leaning over to snap the toe bail on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Surf Quebec Posted October 27, 2011 Report Share Posted October 27, 2011 That's the opposite for me, I've always ride with TD2 Si or Blax SI bindings. I've bought a used board this summer and Raichlee X-bones bindings with bails were included. So this winter, I'll discover all about that lateral flex... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Puddy Tat Posted October 27, 2011 Report Share Posted October 27, 2011 There was an interesting thread last year on the biggest problem with step-ins. Which isn't so much of a problem, but it is something to be aware of when riding step-ins. http://www.bomberonline.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=34372 I've got to do something about those bolt heads this season on the front toe block of my rear binding (TD3 SIs). Either candle wax, silicon, or tape to keep ice accumulation down. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keenan Posted October 27, 2011 Report Share Posted October 27, 2011 If you are planning a lot of backcountry or deep snow riding, step ins can be problematic. It can be hard to engage the pins when you are on anything but a level surface. With standard toe bails you can sit on a steeper slope and clip in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ladia Posted October 27, 2011 Report Share Posted October 27, 2011 As an old fart with beer belly I like convenience of step- in. I have been using it since TD1 step in introduction, but only on rear foot. Regular bail on front. I tried step- in on front a couple times, but did not like it. Maybe to stiff. I remember one landing after jump and it was like toes hit the wall. Never used step- in on front foot since. Intec heel piece was problematic. I broke 2 of them. Fintec seems to be much more durable. As mentioned above, to get into step- in on steeps and deep snow can be very tricky. For convenience and shorter overall length of binding step- in for everything else regular bail. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SunSurfer Posted October 28, 2011 Report Share Posted October 28, 2011 A number of riders posting here, myself included, get heel pain from the pressure the (F)Intec release cable exerts on the bone & soft tissue on the outside of the heel. No simple solution amongst the sufferers posts on this issue. SunSurfer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philw Posted October 28, 2011 Report Share Posted October 28, 2011 If you are planning a lot of backcountry or deep snow riding, step ins can be problematic. It can be hard to engage the pins when you are on anything but a level surface. With standard toe bails you can sit on a steeper slope and clip in. I mostly ride back-country powder and have not found that. I think it's a personal preference. Both clips and step-ins can accumulate ice if you have snow on the bases and you sit in a heated helicopter, depending on the temperature. The wings on the step-ins are good for removing that. I would say that clips are more tolerant of ice build up if you crank them, but they both work. I'm trying to think how it works. If you have to get out/ in on a steep from a crashed position... I don't think there's much in it either way. Clearing the front binding is generally easy. Depending on the snow consistency clearing the back can be trivial. With step-ins at least, you have to clear the snow from the binding at this point or you're wasting time. That's the trick of it - irrespective of snow quality, you need to scoop the snow out of there. The over fing with step-ins is that there's a fair amount of tweak (I use F2) in precisely how you set up the toe/ heel length and the toe bail. If they're not set quite right, they can be less tolerant of snow conditions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bhaysd Posted November 6, 2011 Author Report Share Posted November 6, 2011 Found some TD-1s to get started back on the hardboot path! Had to loosen the threads a little to fit my 'war canoes.' Steep angles to handle them, too. It looks like I can buy the step-in as an accessory later? Also starting out with my ski boots. Need some coin before I can get some true snowboard boots. Thanks for all the info. It snowed yesterday, so I"m really looking forward to the season! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueB Posted November 7, 2011 Report Share Posted November 7, 2011 TD1s are pretty bad idea with ski boots... TD2 was also too stiff for my (skibooted) taste and became good only with suspension kit or TD3 elastomer. Step ins? Why bother? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mellow Yellow Posted November 7, 2011 Report Share Posted November 7, 2011 Step ins? Why bother? Whachu talkin bout? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.