John E Posted October 26, 2011 Report Share Posted October 26, 2011 We just had our 1st snow of the season here in Denver. In anticipation, I put winter tires on the cars. I enjoy driving in the snow. I hate driving with ill-equiped low-skill drivers in the snow. I encountered the usual cast this morning on my commute to work. They seem to fall into 2 classes: The timid driver with bad tires who can't or won't drive at a reasonable pace and expects that the speed that is comfortable for them is how fast all those behind them should drive. One that I passed honked at me because I didn't want to drive behind him at his speed. Someone told me that there is a law in Alaska that if more than 3 cars are behind you, you must pull over and allow them to pass. Makes a lot of sense to me. For the drivers who see nobody ahead of them and lots of cars behind, do they ever figure this out? If they would just pull over and allow faster cars to pass, they could drive as slow as they want and allow the others to drive at a speed that is comfortable for them, everybody gets to drive at a pace comfortable for them. The agressive driver in a 4WD SUV who thinks this will negate the effects of slippery roads. Faithful to the sterotype, it is usually the SUV that is not just off the road but upside down as well. Back in the "good old days" there was a law in Colorado known as the "brake and lights" sticker. Everybody had to take their car into a mechanic once a year and have the brakes, lights AND TIRES inspected in order to register their car. Unfortunately, they no longer require this. As a result, lots of people drive around on bad tires. They don't find out just how marginal they are until the 1st big storm of the season. I'm a bit of a libertarian and if someone wants to drive around in a marginal car, that is their business UNTIL IT EFFECTS EVERYONE ELSE. When the roads get snowy the first thing many do is to complain about the quality of the snow removal. Bottom line: get descent winter tires and practice your winter driving skills and we will all get where we're going when we want. There. Now I feel better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
www.oldsnowboards.com Posted October 26, 2011 Report Share Posted October 26, 2011 I feel better too! Thanks. In addition: Don't push so hard (tailgating is really, REALLY DUMB) One of those can't win type decisions that offers little or no benefit hope. Put down that gd dmn cell phone! Are you really going to risk others so you can get the updates on the shopping list? It is now against the law in OR and WA, yet it appears 1 out of 3 still do it regularly (RE: Nonstop) Signals- USE THEM. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RideGuy Posted October 26, 2011 Report Share Posted October 26, 2011 Welcome to every time it snows in Toronto. It can turn my 12 minute commute into 2 hours. I usually leave for work early on snow days, so I can enjoy first tracks through the unplowed snow. :) I wish they would make snow tires the law in Ontario like they did in Quebec. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobD Posted October 27, 2011 Report Share Posted October 27, 2011 Signals- USE THEM. - to tell us what you are going to do - before you do it. My pet peeve is seeing brake lights come on before a turn signal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
www.oldsnowboards.com Posted October 27, 2011 Report Share Posted October 27, 2011 - to tell us what you are going to do - before you do it. My pet peeve is seeing brake lights come on before a turn signal. It would require they set the phone down to flip the signal lever. Unless of course they are driving with their knees. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobD Posted October 27, 2011 Report Share Posted October 27, 2011 Unless of course they are driving with their knees. you mean put hands on the wheel? I thought that was like hand signals - they only require it for the driving test Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
two_ravens Posted October 27, 2011 Report Share Posted October 27, 2011 - to tell us what you are going to do - before you do it. Oh now, isn't that asking a bit much? :lol: My favorite is the right turn signal, followed by a sudden left turn (or vice versa.) See a lot of that here, year round, but of course we enjoy it more in the winter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skatha Posted October 27, 2011 Report Share Posted October 27, 2011 We just had our 1st snow of the season here in Denver. In anticipation, I put winter tires on the cars.I enjoy driving in the snow. I hate driving with ill-equiped low-skill drivers in the snow. I encountered the usual cast this morning on my commute to work. They seem to fall into 2 classes: The timid driver with bad tires who can't or won't drive at a reasonable pace and expects that the speed that is comfortable for them is how fast all those behind them should drive. One that I passed honked at me because I didn't want to drive behind him at his speed. Someone told me that there is a law in Alaska that if more than 3 cars are behind you, you must pull over and allow them to pass. Makes a lot of sense to me. For the drivers who see nobody ahead of them and lots of cars behind, do they ever figure this out? If they would just pull over and allow faster cars to pass, they could drive as slow as they want and allow the others to drive at a speed that is comfortable for them, everybody gets to drive at a pace comfortable for them. The agressive driver in a 4WD SUV who thinks this will negate the effects of slippery roads. Faithful to the sterotype, it is usually the SUV that is not just off the road but upside down as well. Back in the "good old days" there was a law in Colorado known as the "brake and lights" sticker. Everybody had to take their car into a mechanic once a year and have the brakes, lights AND TIRES inspected in order to register their car. Unfortunately, they no longer require this. As a result, lots of people drive around on bad tires. They don't find out just how marginal they are until the 1st big storm of the season. I'm a bit of a libertarian and if someone wants to drive around in a marginal car, that is their business UNTIL IT EFFECTS EVERYONE ELSE. When the roads get snowy the first thing many do is to complain about the quality of the snow removal. Bottom line: get descent winter tires and practice your winter driving skills and we will all get where we're going when we want. There. Now I feel better. I'm always amazed how frequently these "libertarian" types want laws enacted to make their lives more convenient. Oops, I guess you are only a libertarian when it comes to legislating YOUR behavior. Speaking as an ER doc who's actually had to declare people dead from motor vehicle accidents, I take a bit of a different perspective-it's called the Serenity Prayer. I use it when I'm driving in adverse conditions with people less careful and less capable than me on the road. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John E Posted October 27, 2011 Author Report Share Posted October 27, 2011 I'm always amazed how frequently these "libertarian" types want laws enacted to make their lives more convenient. Oops, I guess you are only a libertarian when it comes to legislating YOUR behavior. Speaking as an ER doc who's actually had to declare people dead from motor vehicle accidents, I take a bit of a different perspective-it's called the Serenity Prayer. I use it when I'm driving in adverse conditions with people less careful and less capable than me on the road. I purposely said "a bit of a libertarian" because I'm not a full-on libertarian. Why do you think I'm a lbertarian only when it comes to legislating my behavior? I'm not asking anyone to make allowances for me. The reason I suggest slow drivers to pull over is so that they can drive as slow as they feel comfortable and I can drive as fast as I feel comfortable. In this case this would likely be well below the posted limit. If people would spend their money on good snow tires instead of insurance deductibles and trips to the ER, you would likely have fewer customers. We would all be better off. However, no matter how much I preach the religion of good tires, very few pay heed. That's the reason for rant. I also wear a bicycle helmet every time I get on a bike. However, a lot of motorcylists don't want the government telling them what to do. So, in this case, all I am saying is that if someone wants to engage in what I believe is risky behavior and they are willing to bear the full consequences of their decision (including medical costs), I'm not going to try to convince them otherwise. If people truly believed that some sort of safety net didn't exist, maybe they wouldn't take such risks. Unfortunately, our society doesn't work that way and we all bear the costs of people taking uncalculated risks. The cost of a set of good winter tires - maybe $500. Just the cost of the insurance deductible for a minor accident - more like $1000. Regarding the Serenity Prayer: I realize this is not something that I can really do anything about - so I just used this forum to vent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobD Posted October 27, 2011 Report Share Posted October 27, 2011 For me, there's a huge difference between choosing not to wear a helmet on 15Gs worth of Harley, and not having the money to put winter tires on an old car that gets you to a low paying job. Having high vehicle safety standards is fine in places where there are alternatives to owning a car, but for much of the US, implementing such standards would not only badly damage the local economy, but would cause further hardship for the working poor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carvedog Posted October 27, 2011 Report Share Posted October 27, 2011 The cost of a set of good winter tires - maybe $500. Just the cost of the insurance deductible for a minor accident - more like $1000. Will you buy my next set of tires and I will send you the $500? I actually have two sets studded already.I just need the two more rims so I don't have to mount and unmount them all the time. My wife has her studders ready too. Yes, yes must have good tires. No we shouldn't have to wear helmets or seat belts. That sure took the fun out of travelling cross country in the back of the station wagon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
queequeg Posted October 27, 2011 Report Share Posted October 27, 2011 Having high vehicle safety standards is fine in places where there are alternatives to owning a car, but for much of the US, implementing such standards would not only badly damage the local economy, but would cause further hardship for the working poor. I agree with this perspective (sorta), but I don't think the problem is vehicle safety standards, which are dismally low (why do we allow an Esclade and a ford fiesta to coexist on the same highway???). The problem is that the American auto industry refuses to produce a *truly* barebones automobile whose main selling points are: cheap, safe, reliable. You could get there by sacrificing *all* non-essentials and focusing purely on safety and reliability within a pricepoint target. The closest thing to that is what Hyundai is doing, but IMO it could go way further than that. I'm not sure why nobody has done this ... but I imagine it has something to do with wanting people to finance their cars rather than buy them outright. Most dealers make more from the financing than they do from the cars themselves ... so they have little interest in selling a car that people won't need to finance. I think a car like that would sell. It's not sexy but many people just need a cheap reliable car and don't care if it's sexy or not. I would imagine that such a car would also be way cheap to insure ... which would probably appeal to its target market. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John E Posted October 28, 2011 Author Report Share Posted October 28, 2011 For me, there's a huge difference between choosing not to wear a helmet on 15Gs worth of Harley, and not having the money to put winter tires on an old car that gets you to a low paying job. Having high vehicle safety standards is fine in places where there are alternatives to owning a car, but for much of the US, implementing such standards would not only badly damage the local economy, but would cause further hardship for the working poor. You're right about the financial hardship. However, cars are expensive. I imagine the first thing a financially stressed driver forgoes is liability insurance. This isn't legal or right but I'm sure it happens all the time. I sympathize with the working poor. Regarding good winter tires - I think the bigger problem is people who can afford them but choose not to and think that it is nobody's business but they're own. I have co-workers with this view. In 60,000 miles you're going to wear out 2 sets of tires - whether they are winter tires or not. So why not use tires best suited to the conditions? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twelsch42 Posted October 28, 2011 Report Share Posted October 28, 2011 My commute is 11 miles one way. My winter bicycle cost me $150. I laugh at all you suckers in your cars!!! :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
queequeg Posted October 28, 2011 Report Share Posted October 28, 2011 My commute is 11 miles one way.My winter bicycle cost me $150. I laugh at all you suckers in your cars!!! :D Suckers indeed. I have a seven mile commute from Queens to Times Square that I usually take by bike, laughing as I pass standstill traffic all the way. It's a free workout! Cars run on money and make you fat, bikes run on fat and save you money!! This is not without its disadvantages in the city ... such as getting hit by reckless drivers, which happened to me this summer ... So I'm taking the train for the moment while I'm recovering from surgury. What America really needs is better public transportation, everywhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xy9ine Posted November 3, 2011 Report Share Posted November 3, 2011 Welcome to every time it snows in Toronto. It can turn my 12 minute commute into 2 hours. I usually leave for work early on snow days, so I can enjoy first tracks through the unplowed snow. :)I wish they would make snow tires the law in Ontario like they did in Quebec. you'd think easterners would be seasoned / well prepared snow drivers (don't you have a mandatory snow tire law?). out here in vancouver, snow is sporadic, and the percentage of experienced snow drivers is pretty low (and the percentage of appropriately shod cars lower), so things go sideways as soon as the first snowflakes fly. the snow commute is always an adventure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoffmac11 Posted November 4, 2011 Report Share Posted November 4, 2011 im guilty in being the agressive driver in the 4wd suv..but i have definately toned it down now that i realize speeding really doesnt get you there that much fast..going to my local resort if i sped there, compared to driving more relaxed on the way home, i only got to the resort 5-10min faster..and thats nothing to make it worth a ticket or spinning off the road.i will say tho, even when i drove agressive, i never tailgated, or passed when it was not safe..now, when i come up on a car thats going 25 mph cause they have chains on, and it hasnt snowed in a week, ands its 45 degrees out, your damn right im giving them the courtesy honk/flash to pull over Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.