New Summer Toys

[alexgforce]

We have been prototyping these for about a year. The first production just came out of the press/

For more info check out the website!!!

[James Ong]

Hey Alex,

Good to hear from you, not spending all your time protesting i see

[alexgforce]

I'd rather riiiiiide! I can't say that our market is affected by this.

[heroshmero]

Alex, that thing looks sick! Great graphics and I like the way they show off the carbon. Nice.

[trailertrash]

so are you going to have these boards cheaply copied locally and then cut off the manufacturer who developed them? you know, like you did to Donek?

[bobdea]

so are you going to have these boards cheaply copied locally and then cut off the manufacturer who developed them? you know, like you did to Donek?

ouch!

mind giving some details on that?

if true, very low.

[GeoffV]

ouch!

mind giving some details on that?

if true, very low.

Alex should be blocked from this site. He had an agreement with Donek and ignored it and is now making the same board under the same name in Europe.

That is as low as it gets, especially in a small community like this.

Why do you think he hasn't posted here in a while?!?!?!

[bobdea]

Alex should be blocked from this site. He had an agreement with Donek and ignored it and is now making the same board under the same name in Europe.

That is as low as it gets, especially in a small community like this.

Why do you think he hasn't posted here in a while?!?!?!

wow, ass hole move on his part.

[Donek]

Please, Please, Please.... Let's not do this guys.

No matter what has happened between myself and Alex, there is no need for a public argument. Alex contributes to the alpine community in a positive way. His and my problems have no place here.

[alexgforce]

Alex should be blocked from this site. He had an agreement with Donek and ignored it and is now making the same board under the same name in Europe.

That is as low as it gets, especially in a small community like this.

Why do you think he hasn't posted here in a while?!?!?!

You have to admire the level of IQ of some people!!!

First of all the reason for not posting for a while and the reason for not coming to Aspen for the SES is the fact that my father past away and I had tons of things to take care of.

And now lets look at some facts. I have contacted Sean a few years back with a wide alpine board concept (again many people have said that this was Swoard rip off). The year after that we decided to do a soft boot carver (thank god no accusations there). Sean has developed and produced these boards getting feedback from me and other riders. For these boards I supplied the graphics and the names. The deal was that Sean would sell these boards in the US and I would sell them in Europe. From the information that I had from him he was doing pretty well.

In order however to have a viable business I had to find a way to cut down the increased costs (import duties, transportation, $$ exchange rate) and cover the demand of the European and the local market. This was the reason for manufacturing in Europe maintaing the same concepts for the boards but changing the design, the materials while keeping the same names (which I came up with) and brand. I still had an inventory of Seans boards to sell which clearly indicated that they were handcrafted by Donek so the customer can choose by himself (the price was the same).

I have a lot of respect for Sean and his work and I had extensive talks with him about this issue. I provided graphics for Sean and offered my help designwise in several occasions and still do, free of charge. My european production did not affect Seans business in any way and NONE of my boards were sold in the US. There is a small quantity (1 of each) in Aspen which serve as demos for europeans that are coming over and want to test them.

In a community as small as this I thought that the important thing was to promote the sport and bring people in instead of arguing about who copied who. Apparently this isn't so.

P.S. for people that are ignorant and have no idea what their talking about the kiteboards are developed and produced localy.

[Alaskan Rover]

I have no idea what the relationship between Alex and Donek was, but it looks like they have certainly patched things up, so I'll stay out of that kaboodle.

What I DO know, is that looks like one SWEEET board!!! It doesn't really look like the few kiteboards I've seen yet. Two years ago, I was contemplating buying a rig for the absolutely nutzo wind conditions of Turnagain Arm (Alaska, off of Cook Inlet, just outside of Portage and not far from Girdwood). If you can hack the literally "killing" mud-flats (many have died in that mud), I believe Turnagain Arm would have just crazy conditions for kite-boarding. Unfortunately, the guy I was going to buy the kiteboarding rig from renegged, and the price of new ones were prohibitively expensive...so I never got to try it. WAAHHH!!

I've never gotten over my desire to try it, though. The guys in the kiteboarding community seem to have no problem letting people try their gear gratis, and often give impromptu lessons...gracious people. Next Time I am offered, I am DEFINITELY going to give that a go!

And if I ever decide to take the "leap" (literally, it seems...UP!!...like 30 feet up, from what I've seen sometimes!!!), I would definitely give that sweet-looking board of yours a try.

The thing I like about your board, is that it seems to be using topsheet technology DIRECTLY derived from snowboarding!! TIGHT board!!

My wake-boarding days are temporarily over, as I just tweaked my shoulder on a board last week with a bail-out that went awry...so it'll be a couple weeks at least!! My question is: is kite-boarding maybe easier on one's shoulders, at least in the capacity to overstress them like I just did last weekend?? Just by looking at kiteboarding, it looks sorta like it.

With a gorgeous-looking carbon-fiber board like that, have you ever thought of getting into the larger wakeboard market??? Give companies like CWB, Liquid Force and of course O'brien some heavy competion?

Also, does your board fit a binding like the CWB "Torq" hinge-binding?? Or is it only for your own proprietary set-up?

On second thought: Maybe it's just plain better to stay in the kiteboard market....as wakeboarding requires smelly gasoline fuel. I should wean myself off of it, too bad it is so damn FUN...but I only do it when I have access to warm water!!

Maybe kiteboarding vs. wakeboarding is akin to snowboarding vs. snowmobiling....or BMXing vs. Motocross. Maybe there is a certain grace in using the power of nature vs. the power of gasoline.

Anyway....gorgeous board!! Great website, BTW. Best of luck with your sales!

[alexgforce]

Thanks Alaskan Rover,

I have been wakeboarding for many years before I started kiting so I know exactly what you are talking about. I even have a 1st place in a national championship in Greece. In addition I was also windsurfing since 1987.

When I got on a kiteboard for the first time, I stopped everything else (except alpine snowboarding of course). There is absolutely no other sport that will get you flying in the air like this!!! kiteboarding vs wakeboarding??? Absolutely no comparison. When you start kiting you will understand what I mean. You will start feeling like an idiot that you haven't done it earlier. I know I did. That is why right now it is the fastest growing sport in the world. And the most important NO stress on the shoulders, back or knees.

In terms of the board construction, it actually is a snowboard!!! without a base and an edge. Not to mention much simpler in terms of flex distribution. Wakeboards are completely different and require a much different production set up and materials.

The bindings for kiteboarding are also different. Although some riders use boots especially for wakestyle tricks they tend to be more dangerous for the ancles so the majority uses the type of bindings that you see on the photo.

But my recommendation is, get on a kiteboard as soon as you can. Trust me you will have the time of your life!!!!!!!!

[Buell]

I have no idea what the relationship between Alex and Donek was, but it looks like they have certainly patched things up, so I'll stay out of that kaboodle.

Rover, please just shut up! Really.

You might be able to find it, but my guess is that you don't even know what they could have had an issue over since you spend so much time posting crap rather than reading anything on BOL.

[Buell]

Please, Please, Please.... Let's not do this guys.

No matter what has happened between myself and Alex, there is no need for a public argument. Alex contributes to the alpine community in a positive way. His and my problems have no place here.

Huge props to you Sean. Very impressive.

Alex, best of luck with your wakeboard!

[GeoffV]

You have to admire the level of IQ of some people!!!

First of all the reason for not posting for a while and the reason for not coming to Aspen for the SES is the fact that my father past away and I had tons of things to take care of.

And now lets look at some facts. I have contacted Sean a few years back with a wide alpine board concept (again many people have said that this was Swoard rip off). The year after that we decided to do a soft boot carver (thank god no accusations there). Sean has developed and produced these boards getting feedback from me and other riders. For these boards I supplied the graphics and the names. The deal was that Sean would sell these boards in the US and I would sell them in Europe. From the information that I had from him he was doing pretty well.

In order however to have a viable business I had to find a way to cut down the increased costs (import duties, transportation, $$ exchange rate) and cover the demand of the European and the local market. This was the reason for manufacturing in Europe maintaing the same concepts for the boards but changing the design, the materials while keeping the same names (which I came up with) and brand. I still had an inventory of Seans boards to sell which clearly indicated that they were handcrafted by Donek so the customer can choose by himself (the price was the same).

I have a lot of respect for Sean and his work and I had extensive talks with him about this issue. I provided graphics for Sean and offered my help designwise in several occasions and still do, free of charge. My european production did not affect Seans business in any way and NONE of my boards were sold in the US. There is a small quantity (1 of each) in Aspen which serve as demos for europeans that are coming over and want to test them.

In a community as small as this I thought that the important thing was to promote the sport and bring people in instead of arguing about who copied who. Apparently this isn't so.

P.S. for people that are ignorant and have no idea what their talking about the kiteboards are developed and produced localy.

Alex, thanks for offering the other side of the story. If you and Sean have truely worked things out that is great as I hate to see builders get into tiffs, the entire alpine community suffers from that. I'm sorry for my post but it just got under my skin to hear things from Sean's perspective.

If anything, I think Sean learned that next time he will have more specific terms for his next projects.

[KingCrimson]

I have no idea what the relationship between Alex and Donek was, but it looks like they have certainly patched things up, so I'll stay out of that kaboodle.

More like Mr. Martin is smart enough to not pursue a public argument that undermines the purpose of BOL.

In the interests of maintaining my youthfully contradictory nature, I have to ask how producing copies of a board instead of purchasing the originals does not affect his business.

[kipstar]

kiting seems to be going through a similar growth phase (albeit a lot smaller) like snowboarding.

AFAIK the cost of everything is dropping - very quickly - as a bunch of me too type brands for the kites, the accessories, the lower end boards - are popping up.

I wouldn't want to be a retailer as the shake out occurs. A lot of these new brands are gonna be consolidated and die along the way.

Its taken off in a pretty big way out here in Hua Hin, Thailand, where the conditions are a bit more mild cross shore with a big wide shore line unlike where I windsurf, where the kiters seem to struggle a bit with the tree line being very close to shore when the tide is in.

The growth is definitely gonna be in the high end stuff if the price keeps dropping; I mean why not when it isn't an expensive sport anyhow?

Sweet looking board. Personally I think the carbon look is a bit cheesy but no doubt my thoughts fly against an entire generation of faux carbon import tuner 4 pot Honda Integra with blue lights underneath and pounding hip hop coming out of the subs generation.

What sort of layup process you guys use on a board like this? Epoxy post cured? Does it run with a foam core or wood core?

A bunch of boards like this get made at Cobra just down the road.

[alexgforce]

What sort of layup process you guys use on a board like this? Epoxy post cured? Does it run with a foam core or wood core?

A bunch of boards like this get made at Cobra just down the road.

If you look at the site there is a bunch of info concerning the construction of the boards.

The production is done in Europe.

[bjvircks]

In the interests of maintaining my youthfully contradictory nature, I have to ask how producing copies of a board instead of purchasing the originals does not affect his business.

Alex touched (not so lightly) on this subject. If Alex tried to sell US produced boards he would be faced with US markup (builder deserves some profit), shipping costs, import taxes, other non-value-added expenses in addition to his markup (he deserves profit as well). What results is a board that is almost impossible to sell because it is way overpriced due to all the non-value added expenses that burden the sale price. (of course, this rationale breaks down if there is some reason people are willing to pay a large premium for a product) The same thing works in reverse with respect to Alex trying to sell his boards in the US. And so, as Alex indicated... there is essentially zero 'across the pond' selling of these boards. In this sense, Donek and Alex are not competing for the same market share and not hurting the other's business. In fact, a case could be made for them actually helping each other's business by increasing the 'brand footprint' offshore, assuming that quality and performance do not undermine Donek's reputation.

If I'm off target on any of this, guys... please let us all know!

[alexgforce]

Alex touched (not so lightly) on this subject. If Alex tried to sell US produced boards he would be faced with US markup (builder deserves some profit), shipping costs, import taxes, other non-value-added expenses in addition to his markup (he deserves profit as well). What results is a board that is almost impossible to sell because it is way overpriced due to all the non-value added expenses that burden the sale price. (of course, this rationale breaks down if there is some reason people are willing to pay a large premium for a product) The same thing works in reverse with respect to Alex trying to sell his boards in the US. And so, as Alex indicated... there is essentially zero 'across the pond' selling of these boards. In this sense, Donek and Alex are not competing for the same market share and not hurting the other's business. In fact, a case could be made for them actually helping each other's business by increasing the 'brand footprint' offshore, assuming that quality and performance do not undermine Donek's reputation.

If I'm off target on any of this, guys... please let us all know!

The reason I did not respond to kingcrimson comment is that I don't think that he read my reply carefully and he still spoke of copies being made.

You did however hit the nail right on the head. Thank you for that. My intention was never to compeet with Sean. It is almost imposible to obtain the same performance from boards being produced by different manufacturers even if there is an intention to make an exact copy. In order to protect Sean's reputation all boards made by Sean had a Donek logo on them. A customer has the choice of getting what he thinks works for him better at the same price.

[bjvircks]

Of course, this is all just my opinion. I do not presume to speak for either party.