original Madd 158 slalom threads stripped

[John Gilmour]

goddamn brass inserts were a stupid idea.

Yes I railed against using the brass from the start. Fawcett and Anderson wanted to get on the decks and would not because of them. Our laminators Brother made the inserts for furniture and could not insult his brother by not using them. Mike would insist they were a damper ride... perhaps- but also heavier. The oversized brass was pretty heavy. The only other benefit is that the brass threads tend not to "shear" but to "smear" which is why brass is used in locksmithing...supposedly because a sharp impact will not strip brass- but just deform it..

That being said.. I would have felt better on stainless... and even researched the ultimate insert... double sintered powdered steel- from China believe it or not...insane pull out strength...and I was going to have the inserts separately laminated under very high pressure to Carbon Fiber.. that way at normal board pressing temps the bond would be CF to resin and we would have had ultimate pull out strength and also ultimate resistance against spinning inserts..

The rest of the crew... thought... since we saw mostly stripping related tear outs as opposed to plain tear outs it was not an issue since you could also strip stainless and tear out... (but it is easier to strip brass)

I just like things to be bombproof. So the double sintered inserts would have stripped the screws first..which IMHO are far easier to replace.. just drill them out slowly.

Brass was a stupid idea and likely cost us sales as well as pro riders.

FWIW I never stripped any of them or tore out (And I had some major wipeouts) .. but it certainly slowed down my swapping of bindings because I was always paranoid.. AFAIK we were the only company silly enough to use them... except for the original 1980's Sims FE Pros which were made of maple plywood.

[Bobby Buggs]

Is there any way to prevent damaging them?

[Newturn]

Bobbybean,

I can fix your board. Screw that helicoil crap. Ill take out the the brass inserts and replace them with steel inserts. I did it to mine and continued to put plenty of days on it. Better than new and still using it.

Buggs, as far as preventing such problems..there are a few things that can be done. Using the correct screws with the proper length for the binding that is used. This most likely will require custom screws in some cases. Most custom screws wont have a thread lock....Id put no higher than a med grade thread lock on the screws and break them in on a steel insert 1st to avoid any accidental cross threading when putting them into the brass inserts.

Any binding change overs on snow should be done carefully. I always used a coffee stirer straw to blow out all of the snow in the insert before putting a screw in. I also used a very short driver as it was enough to properly tighten the screws but not so much to over torque them and strip the insert or screw head.

[carvedog]

Both operations done on the notorious milling machine in my living room (not CNC, by the way), to ensure mill and tap alignment.

Do you really have a milling machine in your living room?

Not doubting as you seem to be a pretty straight up guy.

If this is true, I think you just became one of my heroes.

[Jack M]

Do you really have a milling machine in your living room?

yeah. he does. a more appropriate question would be what isn't in his living room?

[John Gilmour]

Is there any way to prevent damaging them?

The brass lasts just fine unless you cross thread it. My demo boards have been screwed and unscrewed about 60-80 times over their 13 years of service.

I personally never cross threaded an insert- though Cappelletti did cross thread an insert or two during on snow demos while rushing to get people on the snow.

Just take your time hand threading them and blow out all snow before doing so. Also..just hand tighten them snug with a typical compact t rachet tool. I don't know why people think a screw over tightened by a long handled screwdriver will give them more pull out strength when in fact... you are just "pre-stressing" it.

Get 4-5 turns of engagement. That is the Key. Less than 3 turns on any insert and you risk tearing out...and the recessed Carbon Fiber top sheet means YOU MUST CHECK... because likely taking a binding off one board and trying to use it on a Madd with the same screws will not have enough thread depth.... 19 times out of 20 you will need longer screws. For instance letting a friend transfer his bindings onto your Madd with his screws....likely....not enough thread depth- and if your bindings are different...using your screws which might have been ok on your bindings....might not work either...always check... I like to visually see about 7 or so threads below the surface of the binding with the screws hanging on it (as the recess in the top sheet makes you loose a few threads)

If you get more than 4-5 turns of engagement and "bottom out" the screw well at least you won't strip it using a short t rachet. Just use a slightly shorter screw or a washer... or add a tiny bit of thickness to your rubber pad under the binding.

I don't use Locktite...I just tighten my screws after each wax -(which keeps me waxing out of paranoia that my screws might have loosened..lol though they never do...) and I often loosen my screws if I am not going to be riding for a while to prevent binding suck (I put a rubber band over the bindings to remind me that the screws are loose) . I always loosen them for waxing (but I don't bother to remove them). Its a good habit for any board...

That way my screws are always snug, never over stressed, and I don't get major binding suck.

errrr..That being said..I don't think I have bothered to loosen my screws on one of my demo 158's in 5 years and it is fine too...I think one of them has screws which bottomed out and my rear binding shifts a tiny bit..lol..

But that is what I used to do- and it worked out fine for me.

And it is not that I never tear out of boards, though I never tore out of an original Madd- I recently tore out of an expensive deck with stainless inserts in soft boots.

And I have landed much harder on my Madds in hard boots on harder snow- at higher speeds and not torn out... which ...I must admit while in the air about to eat it on the 170s or 158s I thought..."Oh crap, this is it...at this speed on frozen granular ,,, I'm going to tear out when I hit" but never did.

Make sure whatever screw you use threads really smoothly and has some decent thread thickness. They are not all alike.

[carvedog]

yeah. he does. a more appropriate question would be what isn't in his living room?

Pictures please of the living room in question.

On a very disjointedly related note. I rebuilt the engine on a GPz 550 in the living room of an apartment I shared once.

So cool to sit on the couch and work on your top end.

[Beckmann AG]

Do you really have a milling machine in your living room?

Not doubting as you seem to be a pretty straight up guy.

If this is true, I think you just became one of my heroes.

It's just a nasty little bench-top unit. A good used B-port would have been cheaper, but I couldn't get it through the door, and the floor wouldn't handle it.

I console myself with the notion that a small part of the purchase price helped fund the Beijing Olympics.

And I'm not good hero material, so you had best look elsewhere...

a more appropriate question would be what isn't in his living room

Well, for instance, You're not presently in my living room. Nor is the LHC.

Pictures please of the living room in question.

An old photo, taken from the couch. Plants and cat carrier have been moved. Bicycles and skis in the rafters not visible.

My other shop is a bit more interesting.

Regarding brass:

Brass inserts don't strip themselves. Brass is a lot easier to repair than stainless. To avoid damaging brass inserts, first remove the ham from the fists, take a deep breath, and proceed with finesse.

Come to think of it, that last bit also holds true for hardbootin'.