original Madd 158 slalom threads stripped

[bobbybeantown]

I have a older Madd 158 slalom (brown topsheet with the face on it) with the bronze inserts that have been in rough condition since I got it and now got to the point were I couldn't even tighten the bindings down. I tried to put timeserts in the holes because I have done it numerous times on cars with no problem. This time I had a big problem, I got two in and then the third broke off at the lower point and is not even usable at this point. I stopped at that point in fear of doing any more damage and im hoping that someone has done this before or knows someone that will put all new inserts in for me. Any help or contacts would be great, im down my favorite board right now and I know I probably won't ride it again this season but just want to get it fixed right and be ready for next. Thanks in advance.

[nekdut]

You're right, that is one of the best boards ever made, and you're doing the right thing in trying to salvage the inserts.

Have you tried helicoils yet?

[Jack M]

I think Erik Beckman at Sugarloaf might be able to help you. He's on here - member name Beckmann AG

Err, I mean, the board is trashed, I'll take it off your hands for $200. ;)

[Ohob]

try one of these to get it out:

http://www.northstate.com/helicoil/en-us/dept_28.html

then drill and tap to put some helicoils in

[bobbybeantown]

The timesert is pretty much the same as a helicoil, it just is a little stronger which is why I wanted to use those. But at this point I just want to find someone that has done this on a board before and hopefully send it out to them and get it done right without taking any chances.

[tahoetrencher]

T-nuts

[Beckmann AG]

I have done this repair about 8 or 10 times using the RECOIL brand insert. (To repair previous damage. I know how not to strip things). Kit part number 35060, available from Fastenal et al. I use a TiN coated 1/4" end mill to core out the damage, rather than a drill bit, to ensure proper depth. I ground the end off of the insert tap to convert it from a starter to a bottoming style tap.

Both operations done on the notorious milling machine in my living room (not CNC, by the way), to ensure mill and tap alignment.

If you cannot remove the boogered Time-Sert without further damage to the brass, you can buy a snowboard insert repair kit from Sports Tech Ltd, out of VT. 800-877-7776

Part number d1-727 $42 dollars as of the 2003 catalog.

Not sure exactly what is in the kit, but it looks like a coring bit, two inserts, and two screws. These appear to be PTex backed.

Product is branded by Snoli, so may also be available from other back shop retailers.

Maybe post a picture of the damage?

[Bobby Buggs]

Eric, would you be interested in fixing these for people??, for a fee of course.

[Beckmann AG]

I suppose I could, provided the inserts are not completely trashed.

Sounds like a good combo package: Come visit scenic Sugarloaf/USA; leave Madd, return Gladd.

[Bobby Buggs]

How would one know if they were trashed beyond your repair

[Beckmann AG]

A nice clear photo of the damage would serve as a good start.

[bobbybeantown]

I will post some pics of the horror tonight.

[nekdut]

I think I have a similar (if not potentially worse) problem. Freely spinning brass Madd insert. What are my options?

[bobbybeantown]

I wasn't sure how to upload them to this site so I just posted the pics on my facebook page, here are the addresses. If you don't have a facebook acct any other suggestions to get them on here would be great. Here are the addresses;

http://www.facebook.com/?ref=home#!/photo.php?pid=134657&id=100000445615684

http://www.facebook.com/?ref=home#!/photo.php?pid=134658&id=100000445615684

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=134657&id=100000445615684#!/photo.php?pid=134658&id=100000445615684&fbid=105672336124286

[bobbybeantown]

Those are the worst of the damage that I posted up.

[John Gilmour]

Our brass inserts are huge//// ie oversized barrel thickness you could tap the out to the next 2-3 sizes.

[John Gilmour]

I think I have a similar (if not potentially worse) problem. Freely spinning brass Madd insert. What are my options?

hmmm you might have to Pin it in two places. The insert diameter IIRC is nearly the size of a US quarter. Dont pin it too close to the barrel and if you are really adept try to pin it diagonally....against the direction of loosening.. not completely necessary to do this diagonal thing.. but if you can..why not.

[John Gilmour]

you could use a Hardened steel "roll pin" which has a channel cut in it to help it stay in place. you would drill from the bottom tap it in and then p-tex over the hole. Do not drill from the top as this would weaken the insert footing. Also don't go deep as it is not needed. You could tap it in a 1/4 inch and then file what sticks off the base and then tap that in further under the ptex so you could ptex over it. . The hollow pin and its handy slit along its length will allow you to inject some epoxy (make sure it is not quick drying so it doesn't thicken before you can press it to penetrate... you might even fill the insert hole with candle wax to prevent epoxy from getting in there. and use an airgun to blast some epoxy into the roll pin and hopefully into the surrounding area. . And after the epoxy dries... use a drill to clean it out a bit around the ptex and Ptex it over.. I've never had to do this before... but this is exactly how I would approach it.

First I would try a small hole from the bottom and injecting epoxy ONLY...as it might do the trick... "binding suck" probably made the bottom come lose. To prevent further spin in the future use a dab of lithium grease on that particular screw- and of course check them for looseness from time to time.

These are 16 year old boards y'know....and that base survives endless grinds as well as the hard steel edges many tunes... who knows how many turns that has logged by now....particularly a 158cm on the East Coast.

Realistically.... if the board has had heavy use.... ( a good indicator would be paper thin metal edges and tons of scratches on the top sheet) I would consider retiring the board at about the 20 year mark-- if the edge has plenty of life you could probably ride the thing out to 25 years....just a guess.. YMMV

[Beckmann AG]

Bobbybt,

Don't have a facebook acct. Can you email direct to me?

[John Gilmour]

Looks like it was run with Cateks on it...judging from the rings... which is a good thing.. Catek's large plate and rubber damping ring and radiused metal bevel on the plate put little stress on the decks for such a rigid binding.. I can't tell from the photos if it is a front or rear inserts.. if it is the front... consider running in the front holes.. the boards will last longer than if you mount in the "girl" holes.

We just called them "girl holes" to give Pete Jacobs crap as he ran in them ... lol.. I personally like the front holes. If you ran that tight a stance you were either a short and perhaps heavy girl or a teen with short legs. Of the 158's that died... the vast majority I saw were run with 160lb + guys mounting in the girl holes. A few died with first generation Bombers that eventually cut through the top sheet as it was a direct metal puck edge on the decks... without a large rasius in the metal or rubber sheet to protect the CF from the cutting action of the 90 degree puck

Thats not to say Cateks could not break boards too...I personally hammered a Catek disc through all teh sheets of carbon fiber and through to the base when I hit a Mogul Field at 50+ mph. But other than me..I think there were fewer than 3- 4 original issue 158 decks that broke with Cateks I think CMC killed 2 of them with tail rides and Cateks- though one those could have been a 170 ....a definite bad idea.

[Jack M]

use www.tinypic.com. upload to there, get the url, then use the button to post the image here.

[bobbybeantown]

Beckman AG,

What is your email address? It just brings me to the bomber email which still doesn't let me attach to it, if you want just shoot me one at yankssuck99@aol.com and I will reply with the pics. Thanks

John,

It was the rear that is having the problems, at this point I think I will have all the inserts repaired to be proactive and not have to worry about them again on the mountain. Actually when I first had this problem I was riding with you and a bunch of other guys at Sunapee and my whole back binding ripped off the board twice and I had to do some "repairs" there so I could still ride it, it was maybe 5 or 6 years ago, I think it was the same day that you had the teleboarding accident.

[Jack M]

goddamn brass inserts were a stupid idea.

[bobbybeantown]

You said it Jack, what the hell were they thinking, "Lets make a board that can cut thru ice like nothing while doing mach 2 but make the binding inserts out of butter! Yeah, yeah sounds like a good idea, its not like there will be any torque on that area!" Silly.

[John Gilmour]

Beckman AG,

What is your email address? It just brings me to the bomber email which still doesn't let me attach to it, if you want just shoot me one at yankssuck99@aol.com and I will reply with the pics. Thanks

John,

It was the rear that is having the problems, at this point I think I will have all the inserts repaired to be proactive and not have to worry about them again on the mountain. Actually when I first had this problem I was riding with you and a bunch of other guys at Sunapee and my whole back binding ripped off the board twice and I had to do some "repairs" there so I could still ride it, it was maybe 5 or 6 years ago, I think it was the same day that you had the teleboarding accident.

That was Feb 13th.. I hit the 3 trees on the 15th.. That was a pretty fun day. The 158 is a great board for Sunapee...keeps it from getting old hat..and great on the crowded weekends too.