Hot air thermoformers, and the great footbed ripoff

[docrob]

Does anyone know some place inexpensive to buy these?

I get good deals on boots, but when the fitter wanted £45 a shot for footbeds (double last year), I realised that for 2 pairs of these small low tech items, I'd be paying half the price of one pair of boots! Then fitting on top!

I want to source the stuff and do it myself.

Don't mind buying footbeds in larger number to force the price down further.

[SteveInOregon]

So your bitching about havnng to pay 40 bucks for a hot blond super model, when Tiger Woods pays thousands for one ???

Ohhh sorry, I just put my glasses on and re-read Your post, I was distracted staring at the Boo----t's, lol:)

[bobdea]

if they are custom footbeds you're usually paying more for the service of getting fitted than the actual footbed.

if these are not ones that come with molding and fitting included they are a rip off.

[docrob]

As I discovered today Bob!

In the uk where punters, like lambs to the slaughter /turkeys voting for Christmas, EXPECT to pay £45 ($73) for the beds, in addition to about the same again for fitting!

[b0ardski]

lurking with much interest as Ive been looking for footbed I can mold at home:lurk:

[gus]

http://www.yoursole.com/

I am thinking next season going to buy a pair.

[skategoat]

I went to a foot clinic a while back to get help with my plantar fasciatis. The chiropodist recommended $300 custom footbeds for me. I told him I didn't have insurance. He then tells me in a low voice to just buy the $50 Birkenstock inserts. "Just as good", according to the chiropodist. They aren't custom molded but unless you have really strangely shaped feet, they will work well for you.

[bobdea]

http://www.yoursole.com/

I am thinking next season going to buy a pair.

I have a few sets of these I got when they had a crazy sale, they are ALRIGHT for a snowboard application but are the best thing ever in my MX boots and work boots. I have both the hard ones and padded.

[bobdea]

As I discovered today Bob!

In the uk where punters, like lambs to the slaughter /turkeys voting for Christmas, EXPECT to pay £45 ($73) for the beds, in addition to about the same again for fitting!

It's ok though; I found somewhere stateside selling thermoformable eva coated, and lined, plastic beds for $32.

Anyone find them any cheaper?

Maybe the fan oven is better, despite possible liner creasing on return to the shell?

what brand did you find for $32? if these are different than the ones I already I'll have to write FAQ/howto on molding footbeds at home as I've done this a few times now.

[docrob]

see your email Bob

[boarderboy]

I have a few sets of these I got when they had a crazy sale, they are ALRIGHT for a snowboard application but are the best thing ever in my MX boots and work boots. I have both the hard ones and padded.

plus I've had many Rx custom Orthotics and two brands of custom "ski" orthotics. I still wear expensive orthopodist custom-fits every day.

I would have thought the Viesturs model would be the firmest, most supportive of the Soles? After looking at the comparison, page, I'm not so sure.

In any event, I'd call the Viesturs model "OK" but certainly not the best orthotic I've worn and not the most ideal for hardboot use. It may have been improved significantly over time, however.

BB

Since my Garmont (?) thermo-mold sandals gave out, I'll probably get the Sole Platinums for summer use.

BB

[WEBSIGHT360]

http://www.yoursole.com/

I am thinking next season going to buy a pair.

I was given a pair of these by a friend who did not like them. I don't think he realized they were heat moldable. Once molded, they are great. I have been using the same pair in my alpine boots for 3 seasons now, and I use the same pair in the summer, in my skate shoes too. They look as though they will last quite a while longer too. My $300 custom footbeds never last more than a couple years by comparison. I will be buying this brand again when these wear out.

[bobdea]

I was given a pair of these by a friend who did not like them. I don't think he realized they were heat moldable. Once molded, they are great. I have been using the same pair in my alpine boots for 3 seasons now, and I use the same pair in the summer, in my skate shoes too. They look as though they will last quite a while longer too. My $300 custom footbeds never last more than a couple years by comparison. I will be buying this brand again when these wear out.

most high priced footbed can either be remolded OR often fixed for either free or a $20 materials fee where you had them done.

the most durable ones I've had were mad cow customs at least I think that was the name. nice thing about those is unlike the cork systems they will partially remold with a thermo liner makes for a awesome fit IF you do it right the Sole brand ones do this to some extent too but not so much. I think the moldable portions are a less pliable material in those when at molding temps.

[WEBSIGHT360]

The Sole insoles do not get as soft an pliable as thermoflex liners when you heat them. In fact, I only noticed a gradual softening of the material when it was hot. They did change shape slightly however, and are very comfy indeed.

[docrob]

Yes:lol:!

I'm glad you're discussing Sole footbeds.

I like the 8 of the same or assorted with 25% off, and they tailor for a wide range for uses...even quite a good diagnostic tool if you can find it...and maybe even find it again! I could happily use 2 dozen right now.

In Fact, what I've always been weighing in my head is:

What are the pros and cons, REALLY, of:

1)mouldable EVA padded reinforced plastic (like the widely used state of the art skiing footbed in europe..I.E. Conform'able.)

They last forever; BUT:

You either have them moulded to a static loaded foot, or a passive/neutral :sleep:unloaded foot. Oh, and state of the art boot fitters still totally disagree about which is best.

It doesn't take a biologist, interested in biomechanics such as me, to reveal that neither represents a fully warmed up and pumping foot on the hill:freak3:!

Also, ..at $£$£$£$EE$£$loadsadosh; in my opinion double the price they need to be due to no competition (real opener here for a boot manufacturer -garmont/scarpa etc to do it in house and include them with the boot and clean up) I'm thinking..

2)An ideal might be a footbed that is partially moulded to an inactive (preferably loaded) foot, but then which continues to mould to the active foot in use.

....such as Sole footbeds by insole !

My only reservation is that the EVA of the liner will possibly compact more under the deformable (softish) Sole footbed..not good, and presumably a footbed that is EVA itself; with no hard plastic, will deform/collapse sooner, and have a shorter life?? So maybe sole aren't such a bargain?

I really feel we have been blinded with dodgy science and are now being significantly overcharged re' footbeds . Charges seem to be mounting, but still with no real effort to deliver a product of equivalent quality.

Compare the relative price to that of a boot for example. It's significantly higher for a lot less technology and R&D.

What I am really suggesting is, that, if we punters could be a little more critical, and price conscious, maybe the product might get a little better.

It would also be good if we could patronise any entrepreneurs who are breaking new ground here, instead of just reluctantly shelling out a small but collectively huge amount of money for overpriced products.

Here endeth the rant.

n hindsight-they aren't too extortionate your side of the atlantic, but in the UK, the skiiers generally are wealthy, yet probably on average only buy one pair of boots before they get too fat to ski or do much else. To them, £50 for a footbed is inconsequential; which allows the prices of these consumables to march up and up into the stratosphere.

But I need 2 or 3 pairs a year at least. it gets significant, and irritating.

[bobdea]

the sole brand stuff does wear faster than the other but you have to realize they they will still probably outlast your boots.

the mad cows I was talking about I've had since 2001 and probably have 300 days on them as they were in the boots I was using while working as a lift operator and doing events as well as on my riding days off. ****, being single with no kids paired with ski bumming is the effin' life. since I got the mad cows I've blown through three pairs of boots so the footbeds outlast the boots they are in usually and I still use them in one of my two sets of boots. they DO need to be maintained. cork footbeds need the fabric replaced ,these that I have flatten and you need to heat them a bit and get them sorted out but it works and they were a great value for $100 US as are most custom footbeds. I have a set of conformables as well, all very different from each other but all work. I even have a second set of Conformables I need to get molded. I just have not yet because the others have lasted so damn long!

so, maybe, the sole brand you can get cheaper is not as good as others but mine are not junk by any means and ARE worth the money IMO. a good footbed saves you a ton of misery. the more expensive ones are better though. I won't spend over $100 on footbeds though that's my price limit, everyone has their limit!

AFAIK the best you're gonna get is Sole brand unless you have fitter do the work. mind you part of the fitting price going to the bootfitter is fine tuning the fit you go back and they grind them down or make other tweaks until the fit is perfect. really is worthwhile.

[docrob]

I guess they do last then!

But does the liner get crushed /compessed underneath with the point loading? I want my boots to stay as tight and warm as long as possible.

I had matched the softec regular for the snug fitting boots (downhill), ultra for the roomier tele' / skinning boots and various pac boots, the

slim sport for the really snug hardboots and malamutes. Can't decide between these, and the hard plastic type that spreads the load over the liner better, but don't change shape once cooked.

What do ya reckon?

I watched some fitters work, and learned..in one case what not to do ..!

I'm handy enough to do myself.

[bobdea]

I guess they do last then!

But does the liner get crushed /compessed underneath with the point loading? I want my boots to stay as tight and warm as long as possible.

I had matched the softec regular for the snug fitting boots (downhill), ultra for the roomier tele' / skinning boots and various pac boots, the

slim sport for the really snug hardboots and malamutes. Can't decide between these, and the hard plastic type that spreads the load over the liner better, but don't change shape once cooked.

What do ya reckon?

I watched some fitters work, and learned..in one case what not to do ..!

I'm handy enough to do myself.

the slim sport is a touch, well, hard but it might work for you and that one would be the one that will last the longest I put the slims in my motocross boots because I lost the footbeds that came with them it turned out that losing the originals was the best thing I have ever done!

for me the softec regulars are the ones I'd be useing for a snowboard application. my baby momma is using the softec ultras and loves them in her derby skates.

the Dean Karnazes might be worth a try too.

[Jack M]

US$175 is a fair price to pay for quality custom footbeds. I wouldn't ride without them.

[Chucklebeast]

OK, so slap me for asking, but why do you guys need/use footbeds? My boots are super comfy and fit well enough, do they improve ride feel, performance, comfort, what?

Derby Skates? For real? Badass!

[Ronin42]

he reasoning for this "fudge" marking, putting smaller numbers on larger shells,

is to give buyers the impression at the point-of-purchase that their boots fit much more

comfortably than the others. This is the most important aspect for them to "win sales."

It also eliminates problems of their liners being too short and unyielding for their own shells.

The problem is that one shell size too large doesn't fit "like new" for more than a

few days and sometimes only a few runs, depending on the factory issue liner quality.

While "comfortable" the support, stability and control (that visceral sense of comfort)

deteriorates so gradually that the loss is barely noticeable ... but you ski more and

more cautiously, with inhibited control and safety. Finally, the familiar attempts with

the stick-on band-aid shims and orthotics and alignment tricks finally give way to the

inevitable liner replacement.

Most skiers today bring their own or have orthotics made first when fitting their

new boots. Then they use that same underfoot support to eliminate the variables

and distractions of the factory issue "sock-liners."

The next step is to choose and use one model liner when trying on a variety of

different shells in the same (sic) size... because, the differences in the factory issue

liners can be greater than the differences in the shells. This way you can clearly

discern the differences and determine which shell is most compatible for your feet

and legs.

Then of course you have to try and buy your favorite shell with it's own liner.

Ask to fit and match-test these new shells with an accessory liner. If you choose

Zipfit you can save the factory liners for when you sell those tired shells ... and

transfer your Zipfit to your new shells. Some skiers bring their own Zipfit liners

and orthotics when they fit new boots. So consider at least trying on, comparing,

and even demo skiing in a Zipfit liner.

All this was a part of the fitting methodology that I launched at my Footloose Shop

in Mammoth, in '79, during the final stages of developing Superfeet. This experience

also prompted the realization that the liner was the essential missing link ... and the

cause of most skier feet-boot problems ... and resulted in the birth of the Zipfit (Head)

silicone injection 20 years ago.

Ten years ago, when the very stiff and difficult to put on shells became more prolific,

I began development of the Hot Gear Bag. That also began at Footloose with boiling

(steaming) the shells as essential for fitting and for molding the shells to the feet and

liners ... instead of forcing cold feet and liners to mold and conform to the shells.

Fitting and molding HOT shells, transferring the heat to the liners and feet,

is without any doubt the ONLY way to fit ski boots properly today ... and then to slip

into HOT boots (in frozen parking lots) every day is something you will never leave

home without after the first time you try HGB. If Bode and world cuppers use it ...

Ah ... I can keep writing for hours on SIZING and FITTING. No wonder I never

have time to exercise. 'senuff for now.

[Wun]

Sorry, more hijack.

Every bootfitter I've been to has told me that my feet are too flat to benefit from preformed footbeds like Superfeet ($35) and all have recommended some kind of custom solution.

I've had my eyes on Sole brand footbeds for a while, but the scant feedback I'd found on them (here on these forums) have been pretty much negative.

I don't have the $150 and higher I've been quoted by bootfitters to spend on customs. In light of that, I'm just looking to reduce overall or significantly prolong the onset of pain.. absolutely okay if not completely eliminated. And apparently, I can't benefit from preforms (like Superfeet) like others can. From some of the posts here, I'm starting to wonder again if Sole could be what I'm looking for. Anyone have any idea on the chances of that?

[bobdea]

Sorry, more hijack.

Every bootfitter I've been to has told me that my feet are too flat to benefit from preformed footbeds like Superfeet ($35) and all have recommended some kind of custom solution.

I've had my eyes on Sole brand footbeds for a while, but the scant feedback I'd found on them (here on these forums) have been pretty much negative.

I don't have the $150 and higher I've been quoted by bootfitters to spend on customs. In light of that, I'm just looking to reduce overall or significantly prolong the onset of pain.. absolutely okay if not completely eliminated. And apparently, I can't benefit from preforms (like Superfeet) like others can. From some of the posts here, I'm starting to wonder again if Sole could be what I'm looking for. Anyone have any idea on the chances of that?

it's the cheapest way to get a custom footbed, they ARE good just not great but certainly worth the money if you have foot pain.

go for it! check the clearance section.

[docrob]

Ronin 42,

ALL of that is absolutely fascinating; although I kept asking questions all the way through reading it!

I'm a scientist at heart and by job, and really get excited by new ideas and stuff that challenges dogma.

Where can I read more about what you were talking about please? Namely:

"Hot Gear Bag. That also began at Footloose with boiling (steaming) the shells as essential for fitting and for molding the shells to the feet:

Where can I find the detailed procedure, and debate about this?

By the way, I would need say to those who come to this thread who do boot fitting/sell footbeds etc retail....I used the emotive term "ripoff" as a devils advocate to draw controversy and attention to the thread. I fully accept that folk who sell/fit have various overheads to cover.

PS. Who decides how we are referred to under our usernames?

How is it that one moment I'm a "skidder", and the next "Groomer Grommet" whatever that is?!

(Grommet=cringle: fastener consisting of a metal ring for lining a small hole to permit the attachment of cords or lines)???????????????!!!

[boarderboy]

PS. Who decides how we are referred to under our usernames? How is it that one moment I'm a "skidder", and the next "Groomer Grommet" whatever that is?! (Grommet=cringle: fastener consisting of a metal ring for lining a small hole to permit the attachment of cords or lines)???????????????!!!

but, hint, it has something to do with the # of posts you have, and probably very little to do with the validity of said posts.

Grommet - first heard this term, as applied to humans, in surf-speak. Grommets were the kids who hung around the shops and the beach. They were recognized the as the next generation of surfers. Hence, it wasn't a pejorative term.

mahalo

BB