softboot bindings for carving

[slopestar]

I love my Burton custom's for comfort and control mainly because i love the toe cap strap. (probably the only thing of Burton's that i like).

"Freestyle snowboarding is for people who can't carve"

I can carve circles on a freestyle...shameless plug...

[Dave ESPI]

Bob posted twice in a row... this must mean FLAME ON.....

LOL.

even on IGNORE... its fun to watch him flail around

Here bobbi... this aughta frost yer sack....

[bobdea]

bobdea

I have riden flow's from the prototype days. 96' all aluminum: base plate would bend and pull away from mounting disc/then 97' carbon fiber: highback would brake at hinge point like the early burton 3 hole bindings. Both with backpack style pull straps instead of the locking type out today. 2001-2004 were all crap and broke while they were figuring out the cable and locking mechanism.

I have had burton's 2 and 3 strap from 90'-96'/89' kemper 3 strap/92' burton plates/early sims 2 strap/burton race and carrier plates/etc...etc... and currently ride flow amp 9's. They work best with flow boots! In the early days you would have to grind off high spots on your heel to clear the highback. The aluminum highback would also dig into the topsheet and sidewall on your back foot/heelside edge. The in, up and go cannot be beat. I hate to wait and constantly wait for other soggy bottoms or bench warmers to strap in. Set them up properly and they work great every time with no breakage. The only drawback I have is that I love forward lean and the highback on my front foot does dig a little into my calf. I do rotate the highbacks to parallel with the heelside edge with an all mountain/freestyle stance of 15 & -3. If the highback had the hook built in (like the orange mission bindings pictured previously) so that on heelside there was no calf dig I would love it! Maybe there is a franken binding in my near future. I did try a set up burton customs a few years back when flow was having the breakage issues. CRAP. Never again:barf:

My 2 cents has been spent. Take it or leave it on the counter for the next guy. I love the flow bindings and will continue to ride them on my softie setup:1luvu:

that's actually very reasonable and a very fair portrait of them.

for me, reliability has been paramount due to working on hill (but not teaching)

I need to score a set of NXTs to compare directly with cateks. but yeah, the old flows were bad.

like I said the newer ones are better and the SP and rad air bindings among others have the same entry system. might be worth a look.

[bobdea]

Bob posted twice in a row... this must mean FLAME ON.....

LOL.

even on IGNORE... its fun to watch him flail around

Here bobbi... this aughta frost yer sack....

yes, you just proved how retarded you are.

[BlueB]

Heated discussion over here... Just quick $0.02 CAD...

To carve like on hard boots (forward angles) I liked old Burton 3-strap the most, combined with hardboot tongue stack under laces of softies. Bindings were squeeky and sceary, I feared the failure and I stoped riding like that. You might just as well ride the hard boots for anything steeper than say 35 degrees...

For lower angles, I liked the Nidecker Carbons the best. 800 is plenty stiff, I can imagine how stiff is the 900...

The Switch step-in interface has the best boot sole to binding interface (no movement), which I really liked. However, it didn't give me enough ankle support. I liked X type (highback) better then N type (no highback). N type boot is stiffer, though, I still should try N boot in X binding.

I'll play with the Flows a bit this year, if I get to ride softies at all. Maybe not, as they now let me teach on hard boots ;)

[bobdea]

OK...Softboot Carving was the way to Surf the hill 24 years ago at Buttermilk, the first area here to open the door.

Bob Klein of Burton fame was the sole instructor and he left mid Jan. as no one was interested then.

I had my Elite 150 at 45 Deg. front and maybe 25 Deg. back (as far forward as it would go) stance was 20" I also had

Sorels and makeshift booster straps on the top as was needed to make Carves on frontside turns the way those added straps allowed.

I did not see or know any snowboarders and was educating myself as to what worked and what did not. I took the fins off the Elite

within the first two days. I have tried HB's, K2 Clickers, Switch, and Flows and concluded that for Buttermilks terrain nothing has

been as comfortable or as supportive for my particular style as the 3 strap or Torque style binding. HB's at Buttermilk unless you are

on Racers edge or Ptarmigan are just not required for Carving. I offered the Pic of the converted Mission binding only for those

who appreciate them as I do, certainly not to convert anyone here but rather to let those know who already used and liked them

to see that they can make their own if they wished.

These Mission converted bindings are the best 3 straps I have used...They are not sqeaky or scary

My set up of 45 Deg. F and B and a 19" stance has remained constant, after 24 years I KNOW WHAT I LIKE.

I am an Outcast as I think HB'S are to Hard and SB's are to Soft, so I have chosen to stay on this interface and Surf this Mountain

as I have for the last 24 years. I came here because this site is made up of people who love to Carve...

with a locked out binding you're riding a harder interface than heads or raichles. with a BTS on a set of heads or af 700s I have a bigger range of motion toe to heel than I do on 2 straps never mind 3.

the whole paragraph above just states that you're resistant to try new things because of what you used to like. in 92 three straps were big they're not now because they serve no purpose that's not done much better by other things mainly decent 2 strap bindings and modern boots or on the other end hardboots.

[leeho730]

Hi teach,

I would probably go for CAD. It's essentially same as SPI with better footbeds (I suppose you can give your boots some canting and toe lift, but I'm not entirely sure how this works) and straps. SPI is known for its durability but CAD's essentially using the same components on key areas (i.e. body) so should be at least as durable.

Some has mentioned CATEK Freeride 2. It is an awesome binding for carving, but is pricey, heavy, and is quite difficult to rotate the highback (or is it just me?).

My recommendation is to try CAD with maximum highback rotation and with forward, angled stance. Reduce the stance width, increase the binding angles to eliminate boot overhang, and observe your backside (heel side) carve. See if you feel comfy during the heel side carve...

Hope this helps :)

[martyagt4]

In regard to the Flows. I did find, obviously, that my Flow boots fit in them perfectly. The problem was they were crap. Too soft for decent forward lean. I was crushing them.

The 32 Forecast I ride now fit damn near perfect in them. I was lucky, although it took a day of getting the strap height just right.

I think the boot is the biggest difference, hardware-wise.

Honestly though, you ask 30 people their opinions, I suspect you'll get 30 different answers.

[Dave ESPI]

I tried something "new" today and hated it.

We all have our own likes and dislikes and when we try to "get with the times" we realise there is also technology that inders our particular ride style.

For giggles I pulled out my 3 strap Burton Custom freeride bindings, and airwalk Advantage boots. I rode 3 trail runs, and then went in for lunch.

I swapped out for a brand new pair of Salomon Malamutes and K2 FOrmula bindings on the same board.

The results?

I rode awesome and had great form in the "old gear", and even got a compliment for such from another snowboarder.

I ride the "new gear" and felt extremely rigid and awkward and was unable to do half as much as I could with identical setup in "old technology" without concertedly more effort and discomfort.

{mocking voice} BOBDEA: "thats because you suck......" (or some lame arm-chair snowsurfer retort that Im sure he will have)

Why don't we all just free ourselves from HIGHBACKS alltogether while we are at it? Hell, just dump the bindings and go NOBOARDING :)

Softbootsailer, Ignore the morons and those who hate us who can just go out and ride and tear it up in whatever we are comfortable on.... style is still style, and if it looks good, and you do it well, and it works, then there is noone who can say a word about its lack of viability as "technique".

[Dr D]

:lol::lol::lol::lol:

easy Dave you'll have him frothing at the mouth and stuttering soon if you aren't careful. did you get the cateks from me? looks familiar

[teach]

to everyone for input. The general positive take encouraged me to set up the CADs. I thought some photos might be of interest to anyone who hasn't seen a pair up close. The binding has a foot platform which sits on the board (only contact is by four adjustable feet). It hooks to the chassis at the front and back; the fore-aft position is adjustable. The footbed itself is not adjustable; my XL bindings have a footbed about the size of my Burton C60s with toe ramp adjusted all the way out. In other words, maybe a little small for boot size 30 but OK. Photos:

Binding with footbed. Below: bottom view of footbed.

The red pieces in the middle of the front and back accept tabs in the chassis. One screw holds it together.

The footbed sits above the board surface:

You adjust the height at each corner with the small screws (see first photo). This lets you lift, tilt, cant etc.

I didn't wind up setting up a board with these. I wonder about durability of the footbed, given that it's only supported at the corners. Can anyone >180 lbs say vouch for these?

The highback doesn't rotate as much as my C60s; in fact it maxes out around 10 degrees.

[Softcarver]

I didn't wind up setting up a board with these. I wonder about durability of the footbed, given that it's only supported at the corners. Can anyone >180 lbs say vouch for these?

As I stated earlier I weigh in at around 215 and have never had an issue with the bindings other than bending the front heelcup which was warranteed. I do ride very aggressive and was on the bindings for two full seasons before the failure. I have not had a problem since the new heelcup arrived. I now use the CAD's for my POW binding and my Catek's for groomed carving.

[teach]

Thanks, that helps. I will give these a try next season. There are two annoying things, though: 1) the center disks are slotted so as to work with Burton as well as 4 hole. Except the slots are just a bit too far apart -- like 40.5 mm or so. I'll drill them out but what's the point of slots then? Pretty stupid patent here, or am I missing something? 2) can't rotate highbacks much. I ride narrow boards for my size and need near 45 degree angles on most of them.

[Softcarver]

1) the center disks are slotted so as to work with Burton as well as 4 hole. Except the slots are just a bit too far apart -- like 40.5 mm or so. I'll drill them out but what's the point of slots then? Pretty stupid patent here, or am I missing something? 2) can't rotate highbacks much. I ride narrow boards for my size and need near 45 degree angles on most of them.

For some reason all my ride bindings are the same. The slots are a bit too wide but if you are careful you can get them caught without drilling and use the slot to adjust. Just leave the screws very loose until you get all four caught.

As far as the high back it is what it is. I ride with 45-50 up front and 5 less in the back and I have not found it to be that much of an issue. I haven't found many bindings out there that rotate that much anyway.