Now Im NOT a quiver guy

[BlueB]

... just in case you ever left BOL "William Blake" style, so it stays for record and great information.

By amplitude are you refering to the increase of resination? when you make this staement?

I was taught dampness has a relationship with amplitude/frequency and with the reduction of rebound and the release/return of energy,

and if so do you again mean the same here?

and that absorption has a relationship with the reduction of frequencies/amplitude/vibrations/chatter without the reduction of rebound energy. However, those definitions may have changed/evolved, or they may have a different meaning/purpose for some board builders.

When dealing with most builders we tend to think of dampness as being the ability to deflect resination, to stop it from amplifing to a wavelength that will create chatter, the idea Is to disapate or deflect the energy before it becomes a issue.

To go on to say it creates a reduction of rebound and realese/ return is only a side effect when a board is shaped using traditional camber, and some sort of a continuios radius, New shapes including taper, and rocker are such to offset the lag and energy lose that was created using old school alpine shapes. Again this is a byprodect of the torsional rigdidness metal provides which also increase snap.

Having Taper in the board helps reduce the hook or snap a torsional stiff board will create, many metal boards are tapered to increase tracking also, by this I mean the ability for the edge to remain in the same groove cut by the start of the radius.

When working with Prior last year we worked very hard to make shapes that had a blend of metal and race board dampness and tracking, while still allowing the tail to provide enough energy to create a usable realese.

I would love for any of the riders who have ridden or own the Hardbooter shapes to chime in here with personal experance.

Also the Virus riders know what its like to have dampness and pop how ever it is while losing the suppelness(SP) many other metal board provide, If you know Frank then this is on track with him his boardbuilding style and well the german approch of power and precesion...in short ride virus hard or get bucked..

I will agree its hard to call a great board damp and snappy, and a true mix is really based on personal likes.

Many riders really think the board should rocket of the tail with a hop between turns, but if this happens you are building additional forces that just continue into the next turn when you reload the new edge so you have continued the amount of energy you built from the last turn minus the energy used for the pop but now you must add the energy gained from the reloading?

Many SL boards use this to keep up edge pressure, but on PGS, GS,SG or free ride boards this is just not needed and leads to a decresse in dampness and tracking because you provide vibration and colliding frequinces at the start middle and end of the turn some thing the rubber and metal in the board are trying to devlect of absorb already.

Most PGS board builderes will tell you their goal is to create enough dampness to stop the wavelength when it is little and has not amplified to chatter. If you are very good and your shape is solid in and out of the turn then the tracking should be the proof, and you can still build energy and pop off the tail.

[Corey]

+1, awesome read Bordy! Thanks for taking the time to type that all out.

[Bordy]

Damn, is this the same Bordy that posted (and was deleted) a few days ago?:)

Thank you very much for putting so much thought and info into these posts. Seriously, the first hand knowledge you just gave us is priceless.

Cant a guy have a bad day Eric?

I delete my post cuase I was angry when I wrote them. I don't know why I feel like I have to prove thinigs to people here, that what I was trying to do it was silly, my bad.

[Buell]

Great posts Bordy! Thank you for the detailed info .

[bobdea]

Cant a guy have a bad day Eric?

I delete my post cuase I was angry when I wrote them. I don't know why I feel like I have to prove thinigs to people here, that what I was trying to do it was silly, my bad.

dude, IMO post whatever the hell you want if you piss people off it's their problem.

Not many dudes sitting on a bunch of board would tell a guy calling about a board you have to get a custom flex instead for a better and that's what you did.

proves you're a stand up guy in my book and more worried about the rider getting the right deck than the deck you are selling.

[Erik J]

Cant a guy have a bad day Eric?

I delete my post cuase I was angry when I wrote them. I don't know why I feel like I have to prove thinigs to people here, that what I was trying to do it was silly, my bad.

Abso-fuggin-lutely! I have bad days, everybody does. I learn from them and move on. And really, I'm just ribbin ya. Once again, your posts in this thread are gold, thank you once again. I just got more smarterer about boards.

dude, IMO post whatever the hell you want if you piss people off it's their problem.

Is that what's really best for BOL as a whole? Flamefestivals are entertaining but get old after a while. Posts like the last 2 that Bordy posted are the reason that I hang out on BOL.

This thread was heading in such a good direction - let's keep it going.

[bobdea]

Abso-fuggin-lutely! I have bad days, everybody does. I learn from them and move on. And really, I'm just ribbin ya. Once again, your posts in this thread are gold, thank you once again. I just got more smarterer about boards.

Is that what's really best for BOL as a whole? Flamefestivals are entertaining but get old after a while. Posts like the last 2 that Bordy posted are the reason that I hang out on BOL.

This thread was heading in such a good direction - let's keep it going.

basically what I was saying was even if his message is harsh it's solid.

some of the people here don't want to hear it when they are wrong, sometimes even me included.

just saying that I think that generally people should be able to deal with it even if it's heated.

how many forums do you post on? this board is tamer than some some christian bible thumper boards I've seen. just saying some people are abrasive online and others are thin skinned. just part of the game, both sides need to deal or not go on the internet.

a dude here was emailing me a few times a day because I compared him to another member, a good example of being sensitive to a fault.

with bordy though, he knows his **** and he's usually just stating the truth in a unfiltered and sorta harsh way, the info is usually worth it with the tone or not.

I really don't mind that in most cases.

sometimes you have to realize that's just how some people are and think about even if you don't like their tone would you rather not have their input?

those are the users you block if you can't deal. I have no one blocked. I flame sometimes but even the members that bugs me the most I'm still usually civil with because there's still a valuable exchange of knowledge.

[Bobby Buggs]

Ahhh.... Bordy Love:1luvu: and things are right on BOL

[carvedog]

I have nothing to add. I just wanted to be a part of the thread without being a lurker.

[www.oldsnowboards.com]

Kessler, SG, Prior, Coiler, and now Donek all use rubber in the construction of their metal boards to help assist in making them damp. However, even with two layers of rubber, none of these boards are fully dampened (100% damp) to the point where all vibrations and chatter are eliminated. For proof of this watch the 11/13/2009 Copper Race to the Cup PGS footage in the Video section. In the videos you will see the Kessler and SG boards vibrate and chatter in the ruts of the race course. The boards that have the least amount of chatter are Jasey-Jay’s and Matthew Morison’s Kesslers that have the Canadian ‘canoe paddle’ external dampening system. This external dampening system starts just behind the rear binding and extends forward past the front binding - almost halfway to the nose of the board. This external dampening system appears to provide additional dampening to the front of the board while leaving the back of the board alone so that it can still provide the amount of rebound/snap that it was originally designed for.

Think about it, why do racers need additional external dampening systems?

Name one snowboard that has enough dampness where the amplitude of resonant frequencies and all undesirable vibrations and chatter are completely eliminated and it still has enough energy and quick response to win world cup races? That combination of enough dampness and enough energy has not been achieved.

All of these things indicate that even with modern alpine snowboard technology and materials, snowboard builders cannot build a board that is 100% damp (dampened to the point where there are NO vibrations or chatter), without having undesirable side effects such as a loss of performance, slow responsiveness, and/or a loss of energy that effects rebound/snap. .

Bump for a great thread.

Don, this statement was still a little ahead of it's time. Many were still not "Believers" in external dampening systems.

Bordy's comments were so good, I thought it was time for them to be available for some of the newer members of the forum.

[www.oldsnowboards.com]

but Im thinking its a good thing to have a Metal and a non metal board. I have been very happy with my Coiler Metal Am but the lack of pop or nastiness has me searching for a little more of a exciting ride. Something that may be a bit more of a handful if you’re not perfectly on your game. The Coiler erases many of your technique flaws and that can be a good thing for some but it will not launch you when you want it to.

Do you understand what Im saying here????

FYI Original post of the thread.