New boots!!! / Question

[aactis]

In perfect timing with the commencing snow here in Colorado, I received my new UPZ RTR boots! I am sooo excited, they fit well just around the house, I think I'm going to like them a lot.

A couple questions...

1)It seems most of the threads about t-nutting the toe/heel pads are from older models, is this still necessary?

2)Additionally, it seems pretty much all the t-nutting that I could find was used with step-in systems, if I plan on just using standard bindings is it still necessary?

Sorry for the crappy mobile phone picture, I can't find my digi cam right now.

[tex1230]

Looking at those, yes, you still need to t-nut. the toe piece is held in place by a very thin plastic "shelf" and 4 screws that go straight into the plastic of the boot base. T-nutting the toe should be mandatory for these boots. the heel is up to you. On step-ins, it's necessary. On standard bails, it's not - the rear bail grabs a ledge that is a part of the shell.

[steamboatrailer]

I I have the black RTR,I still reccomend to to t-nut the toes.They are a very strong boot,but better safe than sorry.UPZ boots make others feel like your still riding in Sorels.

[Willow 15]

UPZ boots make others feel like your still riding in Sorels.

If you fill your Sorel's with broken glass and acid. My Upz's gave me the most horredous shin bang and that was with a custom liner, I loved the performance but the pain was not worth it. It is a good idea to t-nut but I never did and had no problems riding with Catek os2. I hope yours fit like a glove and happy riding.:)

[steamboatrailer]

Mine do fit,better than a glove.Each to there own.Ride what fits,feel those G's enjoy the ride.I just gotta find a way to carve upside down then I have made my own roller coaster.

[aactis]

Thanks for the advice. I figured I would have to t-nut the toe since the interface with the binding isn't on the body of the boot itself.

Also, in regard to bindings, I'm in the process of upgrading from some TD1's (and knew before buying the boots of the interface problem with the heel), and haven't heard of any other bindings with UPZ compatibility. Does anybody know differently? I'm probably going to head up to AllBoardsSports this weekend or sometime soon and see if they have any good deals on some. But right now I'm kind of thinking about the F2 Race Titaniums or some TD2/3's.

[queequeg]

Thanks for the advice. I figured I would have to t-nut the toe since the interface with the binding isn't on the body of the boot itself.

Also, in regard to bindings, I'm in the process of upgrading from some TD1's (and knew before buying the boots of the interface problem with the heel), and haven't heard of any other bindings with UPZ compatibility. Does anybody know differently? I'm probably going to head up to AllBoardsSports this weekend or sometime soon and see if they have any good deals on some. But right now I'm kind of thinking about the F2 Race Titaniums or some TD2/3's.

I'm upgrading to UPZ this season and I had some questions with regard to fit between the UPZ and the TD 3. After asking around a bit, I found that you should be fine if you ride stepin. If you use standards, then smaller boot sizes may not fit in the TD3.

[aactis]

I'm upgrading to UPZ this season and I had some questions with regard to fit between the UPZ and the TD 3. After asking around a bit, I found that you should be fine if you ride stepin. If you use standards, then smaller boot sizes may not fit in the TD3.

Good thing I have size 29 boots then haha. :)

But a standard setup with TD3's should not have issues? That's good.

[Phil]

Did you try your TD1's with your new boots? I never had a problem with mine. Unless you are really looking to buy new bindings, it might be worth a try...

[aactis]

Yeah, and it looks like the older thread where someone grinded down the heel pad to make them fit better--the heel bail is angled too far forward at the height of the boot knotch to have a solid connection.

[Puddy Tat]

I love my UPZ RTRs. I've got the black version. Now this was probably just me but when I first got the boot I had an old set of Oxygen (Fritsche) bindings and I found it difficult to get the heel bail on the rear binding to slide into the slot on the boot. This was likely due to the bindings being fixed at a 6 deg inward canting and the UPZ sole being so short it was difficult to see the slot. I've since upgraded to TD3 stepins and Fintecs. I love the stiffness of the boots and the whole interface.

As an aside I used to get wicked shin bang both from my Raichle 111's and the UPZs. When I upgraded to the TD3s I gave myself a couple of degrees of outward canting and bye-bye shin bang; it turns out I'm a little bowlegged. Who knew?

Dave

[NateW]

Tex already posted what I was going to say about T-nutting.

My UPZs fit my feet WAY better than Raichle 324s or AF600s. It just depends how closely your feet resemble the feet that were used to design the boots. I want to buy another pair of UPZs so I can get rid of the 324s that I'm keeping for backup.

I wasn't pleased with the stiffness of the UPZs at first, but then I learned to accept it, and now I wonder why I rode those floppy 324s for so long. :)

[bjvircks]

I disagree with what some feel is the need to tee-nut the new UPZ toe pieces.

These new toes are the ones that have a ledge (or shoulder) on the outside of the boot toebox which engage a pocket within the add-on toepiece. In my observation of the mechanics of the system, the toepiece and boot ledge would have to begin to rip away from the boot toe before the tee-nuts begin to load up at all. By that point the tee-nuts, located where they are, would be too little, too late.

From what I see of the mechanics of the toe block... the 4 screws do little other than keep the toe piece from sliding forward and disengaging the ledge. For the last 3 years I've been riding my UPZ boots with the toes non tee-nutted. Because of the overall design of this interface I would not be very concerned if I only had 1 toeblock screw in place and 3 missing.

HOWEVER... I would not use the boot at all if it were the older configuration which had no ledge at the toe. With no ledge, even with tee-nuts, I would consider the system unsafe. The add-on toe block would be the weak point, with way too much distance between where the bail forces are applied and where the screws attach. The tee-nuts and screws would hold but the toe block would fracture right at the front 2 screws.

IMEO... credentials available for the asking

post script: ANY intec heel must be tee-nutted, any boot. period.

[tex1230]

I disagree with what some feel is the need to tee-nut the new UPZ toe pieces.

These new toes are the ones that have a ledge (or shoulder) on the outside of the boot toebox which engage a pocket within the add-on toepiece. In my observation of the mechanics of the system, the toepiece and boot ledge would have to begin to rip away from the boot toe before the tee-nuts begin to load up at all. By that point the tee-nuts, located where they are, would be too little, too late.

From what I see of the mechanics of the toe block... the 4 screws do little other than keep the toe piece from sliding forward and disengaging the ledge. For the last 3 years I've been riding my UPZ boots with the toes non tee-nutted. Because of the overall design of this interface I would not be very concerned if I only had 1 toeblock screw in place and 3 missing.

HOWEVER... I would not use the boot at all if it were the older configuration which had no ledge at the toe. With no ledge, even with tee-nuts, I would consider the system unsafe. The add-on toe block would be the weak point, with way too much distance between where the bail forces are applied and where the screws attach. The tee-nuts and screws would hold but the toe block would fracture right at the front 2 screws.

IMEO... credentials available for the asking

post script: ANY intec heel must be tee-nutted, any boot. period.

Maybe the design is better than the old ones, but would you really be willing to risk a 1-footed release at high speeds rather than shelling out $12 at the local hardware store and 20 minutes of your time? Cheap insurance IMHO

[bjvircks]

On an almost daily basis I work to eliminate senseless and needless overdesign from junior engineers.

I stand by my statement that with my particular UPZ boots I wouldn't be worried if I only had one of the standard screws holding my toeblock on. I'd prefer that it be one of the front screws.

Tex1230.... excellent carpet surfing situation! Try removing the back 2 screws and one of the front screws and have a friend put on the boot and lock into your bindings. Then watch closely as your friend works to crank the toe up. Then back off the remaining screw a turn or two and again watch what happens.

Virtually all of the strength of the system comes from the toeblock's engagement with the ledge on the toe. If the toeblock does not move forward off the ledge at all, the system strength is at pretty much 100%

[queequeg]

On an almost daily basis I work to eliminate senseless and needless overdesign from junior engineers.

I stand by my statement that with my particular UPZ boots I wouldn't be worried if I only had one of the standard screws holding my toeblock on. I'd prefer that it be one of the front screws.

Tex1230.... excellent carpet surfing situation! Try removing the back 2 screws and one of the front screws and have a friend put on the boot and lock into your bindings. Then watch closely as your friend works to crank the toe up. Then back off the remaining screw a turn or two and again watch what happens.

Virtually all of the strength of the system comes from the toeblock's engagement with the ledge on the toe. If the toeblock does not move forward off the ledge at all, the system strength is at pretty much 100%

While I don't doubt that the ledges are strong and all, I am pretty doubtful that the forces that come into play during carpet surfing even begin to approach the forces that come into play while carving at speed, or worse still: eating it hard at speed.

I have yet to receive my UPZ and I'm not a mechanical engineer so my comments are peanut-gallery-quality at best but: I'd be more concerned about twisting forces exerted upon the toe piece (tension on one ledge and pressure on the other) than straight lifting forces ... particularly on standard/non-(f)intec bindings. It seems to me that with low stance angles and bail-type bindings, you would be taking an extra big risk by not t-nutting the toe ledge.

As an aside: step-ins seem to add an extra safety measure, in that should the toe-ledge fail, you are still attached by the heel. They also seem like they would reduce the sort of torsional forces I am thinking of in the above paragraph. I don't know if I could get myself to trust the UPZ on bail bindings, though I know that many people (and racers) do.

[bjvircks]

While I don't doubt that the ledges are strong and all, I am pretty doubtful that the forces that come into play during carpet surfing even begin to approach the forces that come into play while carving at speed, or worse still: eating it hard at speed.

I have yet to receive my UPZ and I'm not a mechanical engineer so my comments are peanut-gallery-quality at best but: I'd be more concerned about twisting forces exerted upon the toe piece (tension on one ledge and pressure on the other) than straight lifting forces ... particularly on standard/non-(f)intec bindings. It seems to me that with low stance angles and bail-type bindings, you would be taking an extra big risk by not t-nutting the toe ledge.

As an aside: step-ins seem to add an extra safety measure, in that should the toe-ledge fail, you are still attached by the heel. They also seem like they would reduce the sort of torsional forces I am thinking of in the above paragraph. I don't know if I could get myself to trust the UPZ on bail bindings, though I know that many people (and racers) do.

Check out the photos posted at the end of this thread

http://www.bomberonline.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=26178

I agree that carpet surfing does not reproduce the loadings resulting from normal use. I was not suggesting it did. It was intended to be a simple demonstration that with screws loose there is still no relative motion. When you get your boots... check out how well the toe piece is integrated with the boot. Inside/outside torque, impact, side loading... the construction seems to have it covered without relying on the fasteners other than to keep the toe pieces from sliding forward.

[queequeg]

Check out the photos posted at the end of this thread

http://www.bomberonline.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=26178

I agree that carpet surfing does not reproduce the loadings resulting from normal use. I was not suggesting it did. It was intended to be a simple demonstration that with screws loose there is still no relative motion. When you get your boots... check out how well the toe piece is integrated with the boot. Inside/outside torque, impact, side loading... the construction seems to have it covered without relying on the fasteners other than to keep the toe pieces from sliding forward.

Thanks for the link, that clarifies things a bit. I didn't mean to act as though you were suggesting that carpet surfing forces are equal to real riding forces - my bad. The design is different than I imagined it and inspires a bit more confidence. I would feel better if the rails on the side of the toeblock dovetailed with the slots in the boot for an inch or so as the front of the toe does; but that does seem pretty solid nonetheless.

[John E]

I have narrow feet. How do UPZs fit for narrow feet?

Also, I notice they make several different colors: white, cream and orange. Is there a relationship between color & stiffness?

[bjvircks]

just pick the color that complements your favorite board.... mine match my jacket and pack.

seriously...the characteristics of the plastics alloys used for the boot bodies and tongues can be varied widely and so a given mold set can yield quite a range of properties. Now... having said that... I have no idea of what UPZ is doing with their plastics and so all we have to go on is company propaganda and spin.

Once you get past the plastic... UPZ bolts on hardware du jour with varying levels of success and aceptance.

[forrest]

bjvircks,

I took apart my UPZ's the other day and I agree with you that there isn't any real need to T-nut the toe blocks. I was wondering what your thoughts are on using the Ski DIN heels, I would consider it much the same as with Intec heels requiring T-nuts, unless the heel release of a ski binding generally acts to release before the heel block screws are excessively loaded.

Forrest

[NateW]

I have narrow feet. How do UPZs fit for narrow feet?

Also, I notice they make several different colors: white, cream and orange. Is there a relationship between color & stiffness?

I have moderately wide feet and that's half the reason I prefer UPZ to Raichle. The other half being my scrawny ankles.

I have no idea about the stiffness of the shell colors.

I use Fintec heels, t-nutted, with the stock screws holding the toe ledge on.

[bjvircks]

wondering what your thoughts are on using the Ski DIN heels...... requiring T-nuts..... Forrest

A ski binding can exert quite a bit of leverage on the screws that hold the DIN heel on. For the past few years I've used the DIN heels. I would not use the DIN heel unless t-nutted.