Question(s) for Subaru owners out there

[Bullwings]

Hey all,

Quick question(s) for you Subie owners out there.

How's reliability?

What kind of mechanical problems have you have? Minor? Major?

Cost of repairs?

Opinions vs. previous vehicles you've owned as far as reliability?

D-Sub (if you're reading this) - i know you recently had a problem with your Subie. How many miles? Serious problem? Quick easy fix? Over all impressions/satisfaction with the vehicle?

Thanks all. I'm shopping for a car and i don't really have very many options as far as what's out there and what i'm looking for:

-Hatchback

-AWD

-Under 3400 lbs. curb weight

-250HP or more

I have three choices, but really only one... Subaru, VW R20 (scheduled first quarter 2010 release), Audi S3 not available in U.S. yet, which leaves me with Subaru...

[CarveItUp]

I have a 2004 Impreza TS wagon (2.5L normally aspirated engine) with about 115,000 km on it.

Problems:

1) Frequent loosening of heat shields. Dealer tightened them 4 times. Eventually paid the dealer to remove them. Which they didn't. Had independent mechanic do it (for no charge).

2) Rear window washer jet barely worked when new. Dealer told me it isn't a very good design and doesn't work well. Can't be fixed. A few services later, they proudly told me that they also noticed that my rear washer wasn't working well so they fixed a kink in the hose.

3) Just after the powertrain warranty expired, a valve guide dropped preventing an exhaust valve from closing. Died on the highway on the way to the airport for a business trip. Had to get towed to dealer. Dealer pulled engine, removed head, replaced valve and guide, re-machined (gasket surface?) and reinstalled. Covered under warranty because I'd reported occasional rough engine and drop in oil level at previous services (symptoms of this condition). They told me it would have been a $2500 repair (but that seems a little steep). Kept the car for 6 days and refused loaner. I did find references to this problem on the web but it doesn't seem common.

I generally like the car (not the dealer) and have recommended Subarus to others. The "Lemon Aid" used car guide has suggested that dealer service is spotty which I'd agree with.

[www.oldsnowboards.com]

They are loved in the PNW.

Dozens of friends have and love them.

I can think of at least six in the PNW that are BOL members.

I will look at buying one if the new incentives work on my truck.

Oh, and I can get 203cm boards in the back??

[Steve Dold]

I bought a 2007 Forester base model with Automatic brand new. At 6,000 miles the radiator lost all of its coolant and had to go into the shop. Diagnosis: bad cap. Then, at 30,000 miles, leaking head gasket(s). Machined and replaced under warranty.

My friend with a 2003 has had a lot of leaking of coolant, they never seem to be able to fix it.

It's an OK car, but I like my wife's Honda CRV a lot better.

Oh, throttle response (it's an auto) is weird, you stomp on it, it takes about a second to respond.

Power is pretty bad at altitude, I was driving up a really steep dirt road at 11,000 feet once and it barely made it, full-throttle in low gear at about 5 mph.

It's not a great off-road car, no low gearing, low ground clearance. Good snow handling on the flats, though, as long as it's not too deep.

[Dave Pushee]

I bought our first Subaru Outback in 1995. It kind of worked out that I bought another one about every 2 years. Never traded one in - the went from me to wife to kids. Newest (number 6) is a 2005 turbo.

My oldest boy junked the 95 in January after it reached 250,000 miles. By this time, it was getting rusty, and you needed to "use the force" to shift (you really couldn't feel the pattern).

3 have been retired, but they all asted well past 150,000. The 1997 and 1999 had head gasket problems at the end. Youngest son is driving the 2001, and it is still doing well at about 135,000.

Wife has 2004 with 120,000 on it. Just had to replace a wheel bearing a couple of weeks ago.

If you are looking for 250HP, you are probably talking turbo. I have a bit over 60,000 on the 2005. Only real problem so far was leaking power steering seal (replaced under warranty).

[Bullwings]

I'm pretty much looking at the new '09 STi since i'm planning on doing DE events and enjoying the multitude of twisty canyon roads we have out here in SoCal. that's also why the weight needs to be less than 3400 lbs. Yes, i know that Nissan's GTR is like 3800 lbs and kills everything out there, but i still don't like heavy cars - i have a truck, i don't want another one.

As far as taking it to the mountains, only on relatively dry days - which is the majority of the days out here. Cal trans is pretty good about cleaning stuff up. If there's expected snow on the road, it's back to my '99 sierra with 4wd and 140k miles on it.

I'm just looking for something to replace my truck as a daily driver. At around 14-15mpg, it's not exactly economical. It's still reliable, and i plan to keep it - the family always needs a "working" vehicle for getting things done. It's just a pain in the ass to park, especially parallel and parking garages - oooh how i hate parking garages. Made the mistake of parking next to the wall --- see Austin Powers and about 20 minutes of manuevering to get out. Also a few years back at a school, i had another truck park directly behind me, i couldn't get out. Had to wait 1 hour till the next rotation of classes to get out. U-turns aren't - more like 3 point turn for everything. Overall, I need a more commuter friendly vehicle. After 10 years of driving "the truck" i've saved up more than enough money to buy a car, and i think i want "a car."

Seems generally positive so far, with one negative. I have till October to decide - that's when my leg will be in working order again.

Thanks all, keep it coming.

[Arclite]

I remember visiting my uncle last christmas.

He has an impreza sti i think. He loves the AWD, and since he lives in snow country, he always parks on top of small snowpiles and runs over snow.

Its a blast to ride and drive.

[bigdyno]

My GF bought an 09 Forester and loves it. It isn't quite a year old and has almost 40000km on it. The only problem was some fuel system part that was an evap. container or something, replaced while doing an oilchange, warranty covered it. Not sure if you need clearance, but the Forester has 8 1/8" and I would say do yourself a favour and put snows on it when the happy dust gets here. It is the non-turbo and it isn't a rocket. It keeps up with traffic but takes a downshift or two to make things happen.

I put 90000km on an 07 GTI, essentially the same car as the S3. Goes like stink and gets awesome mileage if you don't put your foot in it. Almost zero ground clearance and a racoon pedestrian did $3000 damage to the front end.

The Forester has a K&N when it needed the air filter changed and we got a small but noticeable improvement in the gas mileage.

It's comfortable, but if you are over about 6'1" you might be cramped. I just bought my mom an Impreza sedan, non-turbo, and it seems like a nice car for the little I drove it. I was very interested in the STi when I decided to rid myself of the GTI due to tons of warranty covered problems, but went with a Toyota FJ Cruiser instead, I needed to be able to pull a trailer and drive through a Bruce county winter.

If you are looking now you may be able to get in a non-current for a lot less, I just saved about 6k on my moms car.

[dantheman0177]

We've gone through 6 in our family - Impreza x 3, Forester x 2, Outback x 1 - and aside from damage done hitting kangaroos (I don't recommend doing that, by the way) they've all been fantastic. I'm moving back home to Oz in about a month and might get another Outback since I really loved my last one.

[BlueB]

Last year, when I took my old Jeep back from Mrs B, I wanted to buy her an used Forester or Outback. We eventually bought the Mitsubishi Outlander, as we stumbled upon a great deal. Here is what we learned about Subaru (confirmed by the dealerships, and few forums):

The years 2000-2003 (or was it 2001-2004?) had very bad material used for cillynder head gasket. They blow it at about 100,000km. Everyone told us to buy one that already had it done, as it is inevitable.

[Corey]

Turbo Subaru = bad gas mileage!

I get about 16 mpg in city driving with my 2002 WRX wagon and up to about 21 mpg on the highway if you're not passing on a two-lane road. I have a 3" turbo-back exhaust (with a cat) and a Cobb Stage 2 tune which doesn't help mileage. Going to the 'economy' tune sucks the life out of the car and gets only 0.5 to 1 mpg better. No thanks!

It's worth every penny of gas when you get to play on slippery abandoned roads though.

The base Impreza 2.5L we rented at SES did fairly well and still had enough power to be fun, it got around 27 or 30 mpg on the highway if I recall correctly.

[Bullwings]

I doubt i'll being seeing much of the higher RPMs to even get the turbo spooling for my daily commute in Los Angeles traffic. When i drove my old 944 turbo, i was usually in the 2500-3300 rpm range while driving in traffic - not much turbo spool there.

I'm not planning on doing much as far as power mods are concerned - ECU probably, but i don't plan on voiding my waranty anytime soon.

I'm more concerned with braking and suspension, and really only suspension, since the STi already has huge brembos on it.

I'm not a drag racer, i don't plan on beating anyone to the next traffic light. Give me a nice empty twisty canyon road though, and i'm loving it. Handling/braking/weight trumps power/acceleration/straight-line speed for me as far as fun factor and true driving skill is concerned. But that's why I still want it to have decent power stock though (250 to 300), because i don't want to mod the crap out of it.

Still i realize i'll probably be only getting around 21 mpg average, which is about a 6-7 mpg improvement over my current ride. Ease of city driving and parking should be nice too.

Keep in mind, it's not purely a practicality kind of purchase. It's more of good buying market, sort of practical (not entirely), and i want/it's gonna be fun.

There really isn't much out there as far as hatchback, awd, light weight. GTI is front wheel drive (not ok in my books). R32 has more power and is awd, but also weighs more than 3500 lbs, no thanks to the hippo. R20 should be nice though, since it essnetially takes the S3 power train and drops it into the GTI (light weight 4 with a turbo - V6s and V8s are heavy).

But above all, the car needs to be reliable. That's why i got rid of my 944 turbo - not reliable and not a daily driver. I don't have rows and rows of money trees (marajuna plants) growing in my backyard to continue supporting that car (kept it for 4 years).

I've been reading up at car forums, but i also just wanted to get a feel from people here on their subarus.

[powdahbonz]

Had a 2000 OB Wag, heads went at about 105,xxx, but Subee Usa covered it-heads constantly going from 2000-2003 yrs--Look inside the coolant overflow containers(if u see any dark, murkiness in there, run like the wind). Last October, someone fell asleep at the wheel, and drove head on into it parked and twisted the frame, pushed engine back, sheared tranny bolts and left too much damage to much to replace and insurance said byebye.

Now have a 98 OB Wag limited that has a swapped in 2.2 l over the 2.5 stock. The 2.2 is a much better regarded engine and knock on wood, has been good. Slower yes but dependable yes.

Opt for a bugeye WRX with low miles and then you can tune and mod.

[Corey]

I should note that all of my experience below is from driving student's cars at autocross schools while demonstrating driving technique. I also have a limited amount of time driving an STI on the street and doing timed laps on a road course.

For pure driving passion, any STI is FUN! To really drive it at it's limits requires a closed track as they're quite quick - enough to easily earn you an imprudent driving ticket. They understeer more than a sports car but it'll be a revelation compared to a truck. ;) Carrying 4 people is a nice bonus!

They're glorious when you open the throttle on corner exit. The center diff controller is quite good; if you floor the throttle and steer the computer will adjust the balance from 57%* RWD to a fully locked center diff to ensure you get where you are pointing the front wheels. It's not perfect but it's always there trying to help even mere mortals feel like a driving god. Applying throttle while steering can solve a LOT of problems in an STI , assuming your problems weren't caused by going too fast in the first place!

Replacement brake parts are $$$. Rotors were $200+ each when I checked a couple years ago. I wasn't impressed with the 09 seats, it seems they've gotten wider and wider with softer side bolsters every year. It's not that they're bad but I'd pick my 02 WRX seats over the 09 STI seats.

All that aside, I still want a new STI. :) Sorry, I can't comment much on the other cars you mention. Though if the R32 AWD system is at all like an Audi TT system, I'd pass. The AWD TT I drove was basically a FWD with the rear wheels providing some forward thrust. It was quick but not even in the same league as an STI for sheer fun factor.

* Not 100% sure about the 57%, I know it was 65% RWD for the early cars when the center diff was unlocked and it went down from there.

[Bullwings]

Cool, thanks for the insite corey, much Obliged. The R20 is pretty much the same power train that sits in the Audi S3 and the Audi TTS (2009 for both models). That pretty much means avoid for me, although I do know of aftermarket mods that let you split torque 40/60 such as in the older 2001 S4 that was a V6TT (my favorite model, lightest one, and a turbo).

The STi has nice torque splitter that allows adjustment from 50/50 to 35//65 F/R and also an auto mode that'll adjust it for road conditions etc. etc.

I've pretty much been settled on the newer STi, but I'm just looking at overall reliability.

As much as an older WRX wagon appeals to me and has the potential for mods to EASILY get power at 300HP, brembos in league with the STi, and suspension to boot there's something that cannot be modded - that's chassis dynamics, engineering, and overall stiffness (i'm not welding a roll cage into my car). The older STi's are a no go also, because they're not hatchback. As it stands this car is definitely seeing track use (Buttonwillow, Willowsprings, Infield at Fontana raceway etc. etc. lots of local tracks here in CA), and winding canyon road use (lots of that here too). As i said, i'm all about the turns and teh curves, i could care less about straightline speed (just like carving vs. straightliners up on the hill) - if i wanted that, i'd get, well I'd get an STi and mod it up, because it beats the crap out of super heavy american muscle cars that also can't turn haha...

[bobdea]

the STIs are great, I've driven one quite a bit as a old roomie of mine has one and although the car does break down often it's because there's been so much work done to it. highly modified!

the older wagons from the 80s were indestructable, my sister's had nearly 300k on it when she traded it in

[D-Sub]

never driven the "racey" models, just my stock outback wagon. LOVE that car. Solidly built, reliable as hell. Small niggly things, but mine's an 06 only the 2nd year in that design.

the problem I had was NOT subaru's fault in any way shape or form and they actually bent the rules quite extensively to help me out.

If I can afford a newish soob whnever I need a new ride, I'll never buy another brand unless they royall screw up.

[Bordy]

Had a little impreza, just no power and not as much fun. I destroyed the tranny.

Wish I still had my little audi, I had a little a90 blizzard package( pre S4 S4). only 168 ponys but still the best handling, sliding, drifting, hang the F on car I have had.

I had a little DelSol with a 1.8 from a crv in it the audi crushed it, Had a little CRX with a 2.o prelude motor stuffed in it. Again audi crushed it.

triple digit speeds in the snow, If I would have been nicer to it it would not have thrown a crank bearing, Traded it out with a friend who stuffed a New S6 motor in it. He of course blew the drivetrain. GO figure.

Thats all I can contribute.

I have played in friends Lancers, and a few 3000gt and a bunch of WRX's still loved my audi the most.

Fin is a Suby head check out his other biz Forenza motor sports I think is what he calls it. He has more suby parts around the bomber shop then snowboard stuff some days!

[Bullwings]

any specifics on how that tranny was destroyed? and the lack of power was due to being a non-turbo i'm assuming?

Anyway, seems like there is more satisfaction than dis-satisfaction with people and their Subies.

Looks like some early '09 WRXs have been having problems, and a few '08 STis. All within the first 3k-4k miles, i'm seeing. SOA has most them all covered under warranty according to the car forums.

Except for one incedent i've dug up at some STi forums, it appears as though the '09 STis are safe so far. Overall, though, even with the problems, SOA (subaru of america) seems to be covering the vast majority of claims, even for people that have obviously modded their vehicles.

Seems like for most of you, and over at the car forums too, that they naturally aspirated Subies definitely win out in the reliability department, although non-ultra modded turbo Subies tend to be doing ok.

[D.T.]

Between an '02 Outback and an '05 LGT, I've put 160K on Subaru's in the last 7 years. I have replaced the rear wheel bearings twice on the '05, both times Subaru covered all expenses. That is it - no other unexpected maintenance.

I'm pretty much looking at the new '09 STi

Check into maintenance costs; while they may be fun to drive, keeping them up may break the bank. My mechanic gave a guy a quote of $2800 for parts and labor to replace the brakes and rotors on an '06 STI. I paid less than $700 for P&L on my LGT. P&L for the clutch on the STI was just over $2K, mine was under $1K.

I'm just looking for something to replace my truck as a daily driver. At around 14-15mpg, it's not exactly economical.

FYI - if you spend much time in the boost, you'll be lucky if you get 20mpg in the STI. My LGT is lightly modified (285hp, 300ft-lbs) but still gets 29mpg (mostly highway) with a "moderate" right foot.

[shawndoggy]

I had a 2001 wrx wagon. As others have said, much fun on snow. That car would go sideways at 50 mph forever.

My complaint was with the tranny. 1st gear syncro sucked. You either had to double clutch or be at a complete stop to get the car into first. Having driven Hondas for years, I was very accustomed to rolling up to a stop sign at 5mph and putting it in 1st. Could not do that with the wrx at all... it would grind every time.

Overall it was a great car and I don't regret buying (or selling) it.

Oh yeah, my mileage sucked balls too, but my foot was in it all the time. Even driving like a grandpa, tho, I never broke 25mpg on the highway. On premium (as required), which is essentially an additional 10% penalty.

[D.T.]

Turbo Subaru = bad gas mileage!

I get about 16 mpg in city driving with my 2002 WRX wagon and up to about 21 mpg on the highway if you're not passing on a two-lane road.

The 2.5L is a completely different beast than the 2.0L.

[Bullwings]

real world estimates done by Edmunds and Motor Trend have put their average driving MPG at 19 and 20.9 respectively. My daily commute is 30 miles of Los Angeles traffic one way, i don't plan to race up to everyone's bumpers only to slam on my brakes - don't do it with my truck, and didn't do it with my Porsche, this won't be any different. I expect turbo spool to be somewhere around 3500rpm and up (since it doesn't have that variable vane geometry turbo that the new 911 turbo has, which has full spool at something like 1800rpm). I'm accustomed to driving a turbo vehicle and it's characteristics, and don't expect to be seeing much bang bang in traffic, nor will i atempt to.

My truck takes Plus (not quite premium) due to modifications, otherwise i get detonation - it does get better milage though (if 14-15 is considered better, hehe).

As i said, the vehicle isn't purely for practical reasons, but I'd like to incorporate as much practicality as possible into an impractical vehicle if that makes any sense. And it can't be THAT bad to maintain compared to my 944 turbo. I had that thing for 4 years and put 13K miles on it over the 4 years - maintenance over those 4 years was something like $11K-$12K and that doesn't include changing the tires or brake pads. This car was in good shape too, an '86 with 59K miles when i bought it, sold at 72K miles about a month ago.

This is all good info though, thanks. I'm mainly concerned with unexpected maintenance costs such as radiators going bad, turbos dying, oil coolers dying, engines blowing, trannies ground to metal shavings, etc. etc.

[CarveItUp]

My post is certainly one of the more negative ones here, but I DO like the car. The AWD is great - it would be hard to drive anything else in the future. I like the new styling a lot - especially the hatch. I wish there was a little more space in back in the new design. We once jammed a full size kitchen range in the back our our wagon with the hatch shut!

Not technically problems but a few other things that I wish subaru would improve:

• Sound insulation could be better. I find it a little noisier in the cabin than most other cars.
  
• The seats in mine are really cheap feeling - but the STI would have better seats.
  
• IIRC, the scheduled maintenance is much more frequent and expensive than my VW Jetta 1.8T or Honda Civic were. May vary by locale - I'm in Canada.
  
• The tranny seems to have a lot of backlash compared to other cars I've driven. Probably a different tranny in the STI though.
  

[www.oldsnowboards.com]

Ken Block

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