US team sucks.

[philfell]

But when it comes to letting BOL board members into the loop its not really required to "tell the whole story" only hit the points I wanted to make.

I thought you were a fan of bringing everyone into the loop on current things.....Like gear. You are persistant (which is good, I'm totally not bagging on you) on bringing info on the latest and greatest product out there. And you back up what you are saying with real world experience.

This is a similar issue.

If I made a post that said something like "Kessler is killing alpine snowboarding". In some ways he is. No an athletes board budget is like 5 times what it used to be. Many athetes that raced when I did, myslef included could not compete today because of this. There are many athletes who drop off because they can not afford to buy the proper equipment to compete.

But when someone like you brings the "whole" picture here, things become a little clearer. Kessler is NOT killing alpine he has pushed every board builder to produce a better produce and in return our gear is better and the level of riding has taken a huge leap forward in a short period of time. He has also made many people re think an alpine turn in general.

This is more of a whole picture, that YOU bring here all the time. Now you are saying it isn't required to tell the whole story?! When you do this you start to loose credability. Look at any person in politics.

I think donating directly to the athletes is great. You know I have done this a bunch in the past and will continue to do so. But bashing on USSA for the current state of the economy is very poor. Because they did what they had to do. USSA does NOT care if some one is a racer, freestyler, SBXer, their job is to win medals in the Olympics. That's is! If the alpiners were doing better on the World Cup than the SBXers the SBX team would have taken the biggest cut. Keep in mind though ALL USSA programs took a cut, including the skiers.

Over the past year I have been working with the SBXers more than the Alpiners. If the alpiners were as motivated to raise their level as the SBXers then they would be performing better. Unfortunatly from my point of view there is more of a feeling of entitlement on the alpine side of the sport. For some reason the alpiners feel they deserve to have things given to them. This has lead to us falling behind the rest of the world in results.

I think that this is due to the small numbers in alpine right now. There is no one (other than Trappy) really coming up strong to make the top guys feel insecure about their spots. So the top guys get lazy.

In SBX there is a bunch of guys coming up pushing hard to prove they are ready to have a spot on the World Cup. Ross Powers is an example, when he finally got a chance to do a World Cup he podiumed! Bobby Minghini, he was CUT from the team last year because USSA cut the C Team SBX. Yeah the SBXer had to cut their C Team last year and the alpiners got to keep thier C Team. When he got his chance to prove him self he finished 8th in a World Cup. These are non US Team riders who don't even have a full World Cup spot getting results better than any guy on the Alpine side.

We need to tell the whole story, because it is important. Knowledge is power.

[queequeg]

Geoff and I have decided that the 2010 ECES will be a fundraiser for at least one US World Cup/Olympic racer. All proceeds from the ECES will be donated. It might only cover one airplane ticket, but we feel it's a good purpose for the event.

Thanks Bordy for the heads up, and thanks Phil for offering to channel donations. We'll be in touch.

I think this is a brilliant idea! Another idea I'd like to throw into the pot, in line with what Tex and Fastskiguy were talking about would be to raffle off a few hours or so with a photographer or a videographer on the mountain. I think this would catch a lot of traction, because lets face it : it's really hard to get good photos/video of yourself carving and everyone wants some. What would be nice, is that we could run a bunch of auctions because even if we have just one photographer, there would be several opportunities throughout the session for him/her to photograph auction winners.

A bigger opportunity to win a spot, will probably attract more buyers - and if we have several photographers volunteer that would probably help us sell even more tickets. I'm not a terrific photographer but I do have (some) idea of what I am doing and would happily volunteer a few hours. I know there are other (far more capable) photographers on this forum like Sean, Jack, Bob, et al ...

I know I tend to get lazy at the end of the day so I would happily auction off a few afternoons of my time between 3 & 4pm at SES & ECES to help the racers out.

I think the other nice thing about auctioning a photo shoot would be that pretty much 100% or the proceeds could go to the racers.

Ok, I am done pimpin' my idear'.

[Erik J]

Jack and Geoff - great idea for the next ECES, I would really like to support alpine racing

...with that said, what are the athletes and coaches doing to raise money for the US team and/or what are they doing to fix the situation?

[philfell]

US Team budget is determined by USSA. They have a fundraising department. At the end of a fundraising cycle they look at the funds. Then look at funding request from the different departments (alpine skiing, freestyle skiing, alpine snowboarding, nordic skiing,.....) Then they go through and divey out the funds as they see fit. Alpine skiers usually get the biggest budget by far. Right now Alpine snowboarding gets the least amount.

Unfortunatly, like Bordy said you can not call up USSA and say I'd like to donate to alpine snowboarding. You can call up USSA and make a donation, but the funds go into the "big pot" so to speak. You can call the CSF and donate to an individual canadian rider though, which is pretty cool of them to do.

Athletes fund themselves by getting sponsers, hosting benifits, working, Andi Jo sells coffee through a local sports booster type of program, it has her pic on it. All you coffee drinkers should get your coffee through her. Don't ask for the organic coffee though, she can not get it dispite me nagging her on it. They have to get creative. The high level athletes qualify for the Home Depot program which is an awesome program for athletes in all sports. But rumor has it that this program may see the ax due to the economy.

Coaches help however we can. Introducing athletes to the proper people in the industry, writing letters of recomendation on behave of the athlete, in some cases taking money out of our own pocket to help the athlete when needed.

[M.Nash]

WE CAN THANK BURTON FOR KILLING ALPINE RACING many years ago. Don't even get me started on this one..

[KingCrimson]

Actually, I'm quite curious as to why you think Burton killed alpine. Mind explaining to someone who was 10 when Burton pulled the plug on plates?

[Bordy]

First off its silly for you to say...."Now you are saying it isn't required to tell the whole story?! When you do this you start to loose credability. Look at any person in politics."

Choosing what to write on bomber is my choice. It really shouldn't question my credablility if I write my opinion.

Again My opinion is The US Alpine snowboard Team got smaller and that sucks for Alpine snowboarding and the Atletes involed. You know what I do on my end, to help Athletes offset cost.

Thanks for taking the time to tell more of the story from your view. It is great that the board knows the inside story.

You or I can justify lots of stuff that went down. And truly the bottom line still remains.....

The US alpine snowboard team is shrinking.....The Alpine programs all over the country need help. This board is a great place to express that...at any level.

[Neil Gendzwill]

Choosing what to write on bomber is my choice.

True. But it would be a refreshing change to see you choose to admit that the other guy has a point once in a while, or even that you [gasp] might be wrong.

[Donek]

Actually, I'm quite curious as to why you think Burton killed alpine. Mind explaining to someone who was 10 when Burton pulled the plug on plates?

Most manufacturers remaining in this market consider Burton's departure a godsend. A company that liquidates product for less than it cost to manufacturer hurts every other manufacturer, thus hurting the entire market by bankrupting the smaller alpine dedicated companies. Burton was not innovating in Alpine. Those of us who remain survive because poor marketing practices have been controlled or eliminated.

Burton's choice to leave was based on their inability to sell at full retail, stemming from a lack of innovation, and lack of desire from the consumer to purchase outdated technology. I'm sure they examined the numbers and found that investing in new technology at the scale they wanted to would not be offset by the rewards of such a small market.

Burton's departure did not kill alpine, it made it possible for small opperations to be profitable enough to survive and meet the needs of a niche market. Burton is completely justified in not promoting alpine through dollars spent on an olympic team. They have nothing to gain; they are no more a charity than you or I. I have no love for Burton, but their business practices in this case are sound.

[Snowman]

Nicely written Sean.

[philfell]

Billy, yeah really, especially in this case.

Keep in mind that what's going on in this thread is in no way an attack on you peronally, and I do and always will consider you a good friend. I consider this a healthy exchange of words, nothing more.

The reason why I'm calling you out on this is that early on you were calling US Snowboarding a joke in terms of the Olympic Team. This is completely unfair when all the information is presented. It looks like you are leaving out legit info on the reasons why US Snowboard HAD to do what they did in order to push the anti-US Snowboarding theme you started out pushing in this thread.

This could lead to future loss of credibility when discussing issues that you bring up later. It would be very easy for someone to not accept what you are saying because you are now viewed as a person who self-admittedly says that presenting all the FACTS is not important. It's only worth putting down the info that helps my case and leaving out or ignoring the info that does not support my case is cool.

Just saying it's a slippery slope to go down.

But maybe I'm taking this too far. I've switched my accounting software and since then I've been at my computer ALL week trying to figure it out and update everything. I hate it and maybe that is spiling over here.

Plus I also think that one or two years ago I would have had similar grips. But after working with a different side of the sport for the last season, it opened my eyes to more of the larger picture.

You really can look at this from both sides of the coin. Straight out right now we are FAR behind the rest of the world in alpine. Look at the world ranking of our top 5 guys and girls compared to other contries. Then look at the world rankings of our 10-16 ranked guys and girls. No other way to put it we are behind at the top and we have no depth coming up. We didn't even have the depth to fill our quota spots at our own World Cup event we hosted, because we didn't have enough people who had the MINIMUM amount of points to compete.

With this info you can do two things with it.

One option would be- We are behind in alpine, we need to act now and pump some funding their way so that we have a chance at 2014 and beyond. With no help the sport could be a total loss for us in the future.

The other option is- Why "waste" funding on alpine when we have other sports that we can put the funding into. These other sports already have solid depth and we will see results now, this will please our board.

When budgets are being cut in every sport, then it's hard to justify to the higher ups taking option #1, especially going into an Olympic year. These are facts! It's up to the athletes to overcome these obsticles and rise above. No one is working AGAINST the athletes, they are just putting more responsibility on the individual athlete. As soon as more of the alpiners realize this the sooner they can move on and above to better themselves and start performing.

Tyler isn't slowing down. He is charging forward. So is Klug, he has already started his conditioning program and is fundraising like a made man right now.

The people I feel it will hurt are the ones with mis-aligned goals. The ones whos primary goal is making the US Team, instead of being the fastest. Put being the fastest as your number one goal and making the team really doesn't matter. And when Trappy or Vic Wild podiums World Champs in the years to come we may see some of that funding come back.

[Jack M]

One option would be- We are behind in alpine, we need to act now and pump some funding their way so that we have a chance at 2014 and beyond.

Wait... are we going to have anyone at 2010?

[philfell]

Yes we will probably be sending 2 guys and 1 girl, unless the ladies can pull it together and earn another spot.

[www.oldsnowboards.com]

Phil, sounds like a central point by which the racers could be directly connected to those offering resources would be ideal? Does such a place currently exist?

If not, perhaps a "Face Book" type "Social Networking" site would be helpfull?

I do have website resources that I would be happy to offer, however, I will not have time to police and maintain them as well as they probably would require. I.E. Domain name, bandwidth, storage and some software. I have several that are in place and could be up and running in short order.

Please email me directly if this is of interest.

Bryan

[MR. JOHN DEERE !]

I made a donation to the USSA a couple years ago in 06. On the piece of paper that I had to fill out, it did ask me who I would like this donation to go towards. Seeing that Tyler Jewell was paying his own way for a long time and he got me started with alpine when we were in middle school. I made my donation towards him before the olympics. did the money ever get put torwards tyler, I'm not sure??

but that is a way you can select which athletes get the donations.

[Bordy]

True. But it would be a refreshing change to see you choose to admit that the other guy has a point once in a while, or even that you [gasp] might be wrong.

Neil this ins't a right or wroung issue. The US team is down to a few riders and the funding got cut. I agree Phil has a point I knew alot more about the info then I choose to write. Thats not right or wrong either.

It sort of hard to be right or wrong on opinon based items......

[Bordy]

Billy, yeah really, especially in this case.

Keep in mind that what's going on in this thread is in no way an attack on you peronally, and I do and always will consider you a good friend. I consider this a healthy exchange of words, nothing more.

The reason why I'm calling you out on this is that early on you were calling US Snowboarding a joke in terms of the Olympic Team. This is completely unfair when all the information is presented. It looks like you are leaving out legit info on the reasons why US Snowboard HAD to do what they did in order to push the anti-US Snowboarding theme you started out pushing in this thread.

This could lead to future loss of credibility when discussing issues that you bring up later. It would be very easy for someone to not accept what you are saying because you are now viewed as a person who self-admittedly says that presenting all the FACTS is not important. It's only worth putting down the info that helps my case and leaving out or ignoring the info that does not support my case is cool.

Just saying it's a slippery slope to go down.

But maybe I'm taking this too far. I've switched my accounting software and since then I've been at my computer ALL week trying to figure it out and update everything. I hate it and maybe that is spiling over here.

Plus I also think that one or two years ago I would have had similar grips. But after working with a different side of the sport for the last season, it opened my eyes to more of the larger picture.

You really can look at this from both sides of the coin. Straight out right now we are FAR behind the rest of the world in alpine. Look at the world ranking of our top 5 guys and girls compared to other contries. Then look at the world rankings of our 10-16 ranked guys and girls. No other way to put it we are behind at the top and we have no depth coming up. We didn't even have the depth to fill our quota spots at our own World Cup event we hosted, because we didn't have enough people who had the MINIMUM amount of points to compete.

With this info you can do two things with it.

One option would be- We are behind in alpine, we need to act now and pump some funding their way so that we have a chance at 2014 and beyond. With no help the sport could be a total loss for us in the future.

The other option is- Why "waste" funding on alpine when we have other sports that we can put the funding into. These other sports already have solid depth and we will see results now, this will please our board.

When budgets are being cut in every sport, then it's hard to justify to the higher ups taking option #1, especially going into an Olympic year. These are facts! It's up to the athletes to overcome these obsticles and rise above. No one is working AGAINST the athletes, they are just putting more responsibility on the individual athlete. As soon as more of the alpiners realize this the sooner they can move on and above to better themselves and start performing.

Tyler isn't slowing down. He is charging forward. So is Klug, he has already started his conditioning program and is fundraising like a made man right now.

The people I feel it will hurt are the ones with mis-aligned goals. The ones whos primary goal is making the US Team, instead of being the fastest. Put being the fastest as your number one goal and making the team really doesn't matter. And when Trappy or Vic Wild podiums World Champs in the years to come we may see some of that funding come back.

It obvious you are really passionate about the reason funding got cut and its great you agree the reasons are valid.

I don't its that simple Phil, You can go on all you want that I am jepordizing my credability on the BOL site. Since I am not telling the "complete story" as to why funding and the team size was cut down.

I know why lots of it happened. I don't need to care why... the out come sucks.

This is no know way a case in court Phil, I hope you understand. I don't have to be educated as to why the cuts happened to have a opininon that it sucks. This is not a issue about gear and I need practical experance to back up my claim.

Again the same issue remains. There are Alpine riders out there who need funding.

Lets help them out. I already have taken lots of steps to put gear in riders hands for the least amount possible. Hardbooter is supporting several riders at a new level.

Oh yea then I personally work with a program that gives athletes training options.

As I said you should keep continuing explaining why these cuts where made. Its great the BOL folks are in the loop.

End result still the same. Athletes need funding.

The "team" the US is funding is small in size and not competative on the world level. There are no development programs that feed into the US alpine team. The Skiing programs the US funds are much better then any of the alpine programs.

I wish it was different. Plan and simple.

Lots of The Ski team members I hang out with can't beleive what happen to the Snowboard team. Funny that these are active members of the Ski team the have accsess to all the info you do, they are active members representing the US team at the world cup level. Should I tell them the are ruining there creditablility? Just like you have said I am? Perhaps that where you are going to far. Maybe you need a break from your computer.... You are telling me my opinion about the US team sucking is wrong..

The US team down sized and cut lots of our friends. Deep down inside you think that sucks also. requrdless of what reason you have used to convince yourself that its ok.

As a past alpine athlete you know this sucks for the sport.

As a current coach you know this sucks for the progression of the sport.

As a attendant to the current mettings at the USSA, US team facility and a mutaple year coach you have been giving reasons that you accept as valid for the cuts.

That's your opinion.. notice I didn't mention your losing your credability as a Alpine promoter who has sold out to the system by accepting what the Man has told you as reason to decrease the size of the program. That whould just not be fair to you.

Maybe you should be a bit more fair to me. Your asking me to be more fair to USSA a colective group of people that I am choosing not to. Of course this is all why still attacking me and my personal credability. That doesn't seem very friendly to me Phil. Of course I just slide it off.

If you think "It's up to the athletes to overcome these obsticles and rise above. No one is working AGAINST the athletes, they are just putting more responsibility on the individual athlete. As soon as more of the alpiners realize this the sooner they can move on and above to better themselves and start performing."

would you be conforatable telling the riders that got cut this?

Then I am dissapointed. We both know that no athlete should have to overcome obsticles if they are being worked with. Must mean they are truley being worked against. Based on your statements everyone should "tyler" their way to the games. Mean while other countrys are following awsome programs that develop more Alpine athletes, the US teams take is they should make it happen on there own cuz the countrys current level is too low to be prodective. Even you only think Trappy has promise. (of course he does have tons of potental he is not the only one).

You keep Making your points based on what you say the US team HAD to do. I don't agree that what had to happens. It really is that easy. The could have cut admin, jobs, given back some of the team vehicles, cut bake some funding for deveolpment to some other disaplines. Its not my job to balance the USSA budget. It is my job to run a alpine biz and snowboard team. The stuff that happened affects that and hence my statement. The US snowboard team sucks. They downsized and are crappier for it. this again is my opinion.

Again US snowboard team used to be bigger now its not. that sucks. the number of athletes on the countrys tab racing snowboards had to be modified since the USSA budget wasn't working out. I don't care that the USSA doen't have the money to fund my favorite sport, I don't care about half pipe or SBX riders. I care about alpine athletes.

BB

[philfell]

Billy I don't think you are actually reading the points I'm trying to make. Maybe I'm not explaining myself in the right way.

I'm NOT attacking you credibility. I'm just pointing out that when someone, i.e. you in this case. says that it is not important to let people know the full story then they have a chance of loosing credibility. It's that simple. Your friends on the US Ski team may feel the snowboarders are getting a raw deal. If they were saying that USSA sucks and telling people that they do, and ONLY giving reasons why they suck and NOT giving the reasons as to why they HAVE to make the decisions they did, then in the future when that person called foul on a seperate issue I would not take what they have to say to heart as quickely as before, because I would know that to them it is only important to give facts that support their stance and not the entire story.

You are saying that the athletes shouldn't have to overcome obsitcles on their way to the Olympics! That's what they HAVE to do to get there. If something stands in their way they figure a way to overcome this. This is what makes a champion. Yes it would be great if ALL the athletes had more funding, but the FACT is that they don't. They can either accept this and overcome it or they can dwell on it and complain or wish it were different, but in the end this is a waste of their time and energy and it will NOT help them acheive their goals. I use Tyler as an example because he HAS done what he has needed to do in order to go to the Olympics. He HAS overcome the obsitcles in his way. I can use Klug as an example he HAS over come tons of obsticles on his way to the Olympics, one of these is being the benifit of modern medicine. If Klug was not able to get a new liver he would be DEAD right now. Is it "fair" that he had to overcome this to acheive his goals when others did not?? No, but he HAD to regarless.

And yes I have told this to athletes, if you hide the fact that they will have to overcome challenges on their way to obtaining their goals you are mis-guiding the athlete. The budget cuts are one of these challenges. If the athlete can NOT overcome this challenge then they will NOT be able to acheive their goals. Is it fair they the US athletes have to do this and the Swiss do not? No, but does that unfairness change anything? No.

Yes I would like more funding for the athletes, BUT I can see the big picture and understand WHY they were made.

In my involvement with snowboarding I have had multiple job roles and titles. I have (and am) been a coach, a FIS TD, an event organizer, an athlete, a mentor, a friend, and many other things. One thing I have learned while doing this is that the "right" answers change depending on your job role. When I'm at an event I am pushing for things to benifit my athletes and make their job easier. When I have put on events some of the things I would have liked as a coach can not happen for one reason or another and I must make decisions based on what is best for the event (I have to consider future relations with the resort, fairness for all the athletes, maximizing the resourses I have available to me) many times the decisions I made as an organizer would have been different if I had been in a coaching role at the time. The same goes for when I'm at an event at the TD. In this role I am the person representing the FIS. My job here is in conflict at times with the coaches and even the event organizer when these times come up beleive me it sucks. But does it sucking change anything, no I must make the best of it and overcome.

This has given me the a skill I beleive I'm pretty good at and am still trying to develope. It has allowed me to look at situations from different perspectives and has allowed me to put myself in different job roles and find solutions to problems while looking at them from a different point of view than my own.

In this case, although I do not like the budget cuts, I can put myself in the shoes of the staff at USSA. And based on the info I have, beleive me I don't have all the info and numbers, I would probably have made similar choices. I think you would have done the same if you were in their position and had their job roles. Coming from your job role as an alpine coach of course you would have made different decisions, but you are not looking at the problem from the point of veiw as to what is best for the organation as a whole. You are only looking at the point of view of what would help your sport. Unfortunatly these two positions are in oppisition.

The examples you gave of things the USSA could have done to prevent this, things such as cutting admin, development programs, vehicles, ect.

First I'm pretty sure that the vehicles are a direct donation (I could be wrong though) so giving these back would free up zero funds. The only thing this would cause is them having to use persone vehicles in exchange for gaining nothign.

Second- Many Development programs were cut. Like I said earlier the SBX C Team was totally cut last season, while the Alpine C Team remained (it even expaned some last season). The skiers also took cuts in development funding.

Third- Many in house jobs at USSA were cut and streamlined. The current number of employees at USSA is less then it was a year ago.

Fourth- EVERY coach at USSA took pay cuts. Not just the snowboards, EVERY coach.

The suggestions that you feel would have simply solved the funding issues were done, among other things the USSA did to cut expenses, but these were not enough.

Yes the athletes need all the help they can get. But to hide the facts as to why they are in this situation is unfair to USSA, the athletes themselves, and the people here reading this. These are FACTS not opinions. I accept these FACTS and I find a way to do my job the best I can knowing the challenges that surround me. I do not try to hide the challenges from my athletes. I give them information everything I can get and we come up with a plan to overcome ALL that is in our way. This is a way to sucess. Trying to shelter athletes from challenges WILL NOT give the athletes the skills to rise above the many things that will stand in their way on the road to sucess, not just in snowboarding, but in life as well. You having a military background should understand where I'm coming from here. Sometimes things are not fair, and sometimes some people have an easier road to get to the destination than others. But that is just the way it is, you must accept this, deal with it, manage it, and OVERCOME IT!

[philfell]

Yeah we're friends. I'm just trying to point out that it's a much more complex issue than USSA decided to cut much of the alpine team and they suck because of it.

I feel IT sucks that the team size was cut. I do not feel THEY suck because I understand the reasons why it was done.

[trailertrash]

I think giving money to athletes is similiar to propping up a failing auto industry. The fact is the sport is boring to watch and not popular. It doesn't sell commercials or beer like most pro sports. Make the sport interesting and fix the real issue.

[philfell]

Oh that's troll bait here, let's see where it goes now.

[Sinecure]

Where's the NSFW Alpine Team calendar? Now that could be an interesting fundraiser.

[Jack M]

I think giving money to athletes is similiar to propping up a failing auto industry. The fact is the sport is boring to watch and not popular. It doesn't sell commercials or beer like most pro sports. Make the sport interesting and fix the real issue.

I would say it is no more boring to watch than ski racing, or bobsled, biathalon, short-track speed skating, curling, or any other fringe sport that as far as 99.9% of people know only happens once every 4 years. Unfortunately I think sports like these are marketable primarily to people who participate in them, and then also during the Olympics. So again that leaves alpine with relatively no interest.

They tried making snowboard racing interesting with Boardercross and Super-Y, but even those have had limited success. People who want to prove they're one of the fastest snowboarders in the world are simply going to have to pay through the nose to do so.

[utahcarver]

I would say it is no more boring to watch than ski racing, or bobsled, biathalon, short-track speed skating, curling, or any other fringe sport that as far as 99.9% of people know only happens once every 4 years. Unfortunately I think sports like these are marketable primarily to people who participate in them, and then also during the Olympics. So again that leaves alpine with relatively no interest.

They tried making snowboard racing interesting with Boardercross and Super-Y, but even those have had limited success. People who want to prove they're one of the fastest snowboarders in the world are simply going to have to pay through the nose to do so.

Sheesh, where is Bill France, Jr. when you need him? Someone in the governing body of US Snowboarding needs to call Brian France. He's located in Daytona, FL. Whether you like NASCAR or not, it's got some of the best marketing prowess going. That said, it's all I can do to watch a NASCAR race now due to the butt-ugly marketing schemes that NASCAR, ESPN, FOX, NBC, and TNT come up with but, it's damned good marketing to the masses. If you ever wanted World Cup Snowboard racing to reach the masses, France and his friends could do it, with BIG CROWDS! Oh, one LAST thing, you have to have a hero get killed once in a while to keep the marketing scheme going! It's as close to Multi-Level Marketing (MLM) as you can get without signing a check that you'll never see again and having a garage full of product you can't sell. But, you'll grow the sport.

Mark

[Fastskiguy]

That's a good point, they just drive around an oval in nascar which *should* be boring as hell but it's super popular. Maybe big powerful engines are just inherently more interesting?

Sheesh, where is Bill France, Jr. when you need him? Someone in the governing body of US Snowboarding needs to call Brian France. He's located in Daytona, FL. Whether you like NASCAR or not, it's got some of the best marketing prowess going. That said, it's all I can do to watch a NASCAR race now due to the butt-ugly marketing schemes that NASCAR, ESPN, FOX, NBC, and TNT come up with but, it's damned good marketing to the masses. If you ever wanted World Cup Snowboard racing to reach the masses, France and his friends could do it, with BIG CROWDS! Oh, one LAST thing, you have to have a hero get killed once in a while to keep the marketing scheme going! It's as close to Multi-Level Marketing (MLM) as you can get without signing a check that you'll never see again and having a garage full of product you can't sell. But, you'll grow the sport.

Mark