SWriverstone Posted February 26, 2009 Report Share Posted February 26, 2009 This might sound like a crazy question, and maybe it is...but over the years I've seen a lot of photos of people carving that damn near look they're squatting so low their front knee is almost on the board. Can anyone actually do this? (Or is this a photographic illusion?) My boots—an old pair of Raichle 324's—will only let me get moderately low...and it's nowhere near being able to touch the board with my front knee! And I have my boot lean set to the max (5) on both boots. The boot cuffs simply don't flex forward enough for me to get more than halfway (on a scale between fully standing at one end and butt touching your heels at the other). I reach a certain point and all my weight is just resting against the immovable shin of my boot cuff—and I don't go any lower. So I'd like to know how the heck others are getting so ridiculously low? Do you have your heels jacked up 10-15 degrees? Do you have ultra-flexible boot cuffs? I don't have pics of what I'm talking about at the moment, but I know they're out there...I'll dig around and see if I can find some. Scott PS - Actually, Neil's avatar below is a good example of what I'm talking about! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack M Posted February 26, 2009 Report Share Posted February 26, 2009 do you mean back knee? and the answer is no, unless you were in the process of a major board-breaking crash. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike T Posted February 26, 2009 Report Share Posted February 26, 2009 Optical illusion all the way! Keep your front foot flat on the floor, how close can you get to your front knee touching the floor? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SWriverstone Posted February 26, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 26, 2009 Your answers (that it can't be done) make sense...but check out this pic below: That guy's rear shin/calf look virtually parallel to the board—how can that be??? (Is this an illusion?) I mean, even if it's an illusion, look at the extreme curvature of the back edge of his rear boot—there's NO WAY I can force my boot to flex that far forward! Scott Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike T Posted February 26, 2009 Report Share Posted February 26, 2009 You originally said "front knee". As for the rear knee, there's more daylight betwwen the knee and board than you think from the pic... keep in mind many use up to 6* of heel lift in back which can feed the illusion... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SWriverstone Posted February 26, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 26, 2009 Yeah, I meant "rear knee." (My bad.) But you're shedding some light on the mystery Mike—I didn't know anyone used up to 6 degrees of heel lift (and I swear it looks like some folks use more!). Which then makes me wonder...is there any advantage to that much heel lift? I hear people talk about getting low, getting into the "attack position," etc...so how low is too low? Scott Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike T Posted February 26, 2009 Report Share Posted February 26, 2009 Well, I use 6* of heel lift and a flat front, because my back leg bones are 1cm shorter than my front leg bones and this evens things out for me... Clip into your board, in your boots, and flex the daylights out of your boots. See how much room you've got left? You *can* actually get your back knee closer to the board when riding, since you are bending the board into an arc. But there's still plenty of room. Photos don't lie but they do compress 3D into 2D and that generates the illusion that knees are closer to the board than they are. Look at my profile pic, which is actually just my avatar at full size. I'm betting my knee is at least 12-14" away from the board when that pic was taken. I was nowhere near as angulated or "low" as I can get when that was taken... it was in mixed hard/soft snow and I was not being 100% aggressive due to the soft patches... but the knee still looks close to the board in the pic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kimo Posted February 26, 2009 Report Share Posted February 26, 2009 Keep in mind that you're looking at the bottom of a board that is angulated up to 60 or so degrees and then lining up the downhill edge with the rider's rear knee and being fooled into thinking the two are close together if not touching. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Gendzwill Posted February 26, 2009 Report Share Posted February 26, 2009 Actually, Neil's avatar below is a good example of what I'm talking about! Optical illusion. My knee is nowhere near the board. Even in bare feet, I don't think the angle between my shin and the floor on a forward flex is less than 45 degrees.I am, however, trying to drive that back knee into the snow on a heelside turn, if I'm thinking about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crucible Posted February 26, 2009 Report Share Posted February 26, 2009 Man, I need to do more yoga.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tex1230 Posted February 26, 2009 Report Share Posted February 26, 2009 i propose that stupid questions should not increment one's postcount. :lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erik J Posted February 26, 2009 Report Share Posted February 26, 2009 I would say that the pics you have seen are an optical illusion. FWIW, I respect SW's inquisitive nature. How else does one figure this stuff out? His posts get a lot of discussion about snowboarding going. If SW puts into practice what he reads on BOL/sees in videos/pics etc. he's giving himself more tools to work with. After years of slooooowly progressing, I have literally re-learned how to ride through BOL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JK moscraciun Posted February 26, 2009 Report Share Posted February 26, 2009 Definitely OPTICAL ILLUSION The knee is on the snow! a burst of 3 shots of my (questionable) frontside to prove my poit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SWriverstone Posted February 26, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 26, 2009 Okay...I'll buy that these pics are illusions (the mechanics certainly support it)...but JK, looking at the 3rd shot of you above, the back edge of your boot cuff still appears impossibly forward-leaning (to the point of being horizontal). I don't think that's an illusion...because even analyzing the angles of the board, body etc. your calf is still flat. I guess I need to clip into my boots 'n board, assume the "aggro-stance," and get someone to take pics...because I still don't think my boot cuff will flex anywhere near that far forward. (Maybe it does and I just don't see it?) I've only got 3 degrees of heel lift. How about you JK? Are you running 6 degrees back there? (That could make the difference...) Scott Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kjl Posted February 26, 2009 Report Share Posted February 26, 2009 Okay...I'll buy that these pics are illusions (the mechanics certainly support it)...but JK, looking at the 3rd shot of you above, the back edge of your boot cuff still appears impossibly forward-leaning (to the point of being horizontal). I don't think that's an illusion...because even analyzing the angles of the board, body etc. your calf is still flat. It's just an illusion, and I think you are just having a hard time imagining it in 3D. Trust me - that's what I do for a living. The board is leaned up ~45 degrees away from the camera, the boot is on that plane but rotated ~50 degrees around the surface normal of the board, and the boot is flexed some amount around that very weird axis. If you just grabbed your boot, stuck it in your binding, lifted the board up on edge about 45 degrees and put your head down on the ground so you were looking up at it like in these photos I think you would be able to see that there's nothing totally crazy going on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fastskiguy Posted February 26, 2009 Report Share Posted February 26, 2009 I think a lot of people are flexing their rear boot more than they think....but but the knee is "nowhere near" touching the board as previously stated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seraph Posted February 26, 2009 Report Share Posted February 26, 2009 Yes, when I ruptured my rear leg's achilles tendon. OUCH!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Gendzwill Posted February 26, 2009 Report Share Posted February 26, 2009 You might see it better in everyone's favourite Jasey-Jay action shot. I don't think anyone here is driving their back knee any harder than he is, and it's nowhere near the board. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carvedog Posted February 26, 2009 Report Share Posted February 26, 2009 Definitely OPTICAL ILLUSION The knee is on the snow! a burst of 3 shots of my (questionable) frontside to prove my poit Ok what is the board you are on? Nose like an X5 or is it my imagination? Not saying it is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gtanner Posted February 26, 2009 Report Share Posted February 26, 2009 Ok what is the board you are on? Nose like an X5 or is it my imagination?Not saying it is. SG race board... 178 or 185 is my guess...I got to see a few in person at the Cypress World Cup...they look amazing, nice clean finish... Speaking of the nose, the Schoch (sp?) brothers Black Pearl boards have almost no curve on the nose. It looks almost more dramatic than the X5 nose. -Gord Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BryanZ Posted February 26, 2009 Report Share Posted February 26, 2009 You might see it better in everyone's favourite Jasey-Jay action shot. I don't think anyone here is driving their back knee any harder than he is, and it's nowhere near the board. wow if that's the proper position for carving, I need to get to the gym. If I'm pulling a 3g turn and I'm 200 pounds that means I'd need to squat atleast 300, and I can't lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingCrimson Posted February 26, 2009 Report Share Posted February 26, 2009 Err..600? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Gendzwill Posted February 26, 2009 Report Share Posted February 26, 2009 I'm guessing that Jasey-Jay can squat double body weight, no probs. One things for sure - he's light-years better and fitter than me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BryanZ Posted February 26, 2009 Report Share Posted February 26, 2009 Err..600? well you can't count your own body weight, because when you squat 300 pounds, you dont count yourself. Also you are not squating your full body weight in a 3g turn, you cannot count your leg below your knee, and only about half of your leg above your knee, so you have to subtract that weight. I'd say a proper squat at 300lbs is about right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Gendzwill Posted February 26, 2009 Report Share Posted February 26, 2009 How do you derive 3 Gs from that picture? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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