Chubz Posted January 18, 2009 Report Share Posted January 18, 2009 Here's the story. I get home early from riding, get my boys (3 and 6) dressed, pack a bag and head off to the YMCA to get them out of the house. We have a nice swim. After the swim, we head to the showers. At our Y, they have the men's showers on one side which are a row of 6 individual stall showers that is specifically marked for "Adults Only" and then in a seperated opposite direction is an open shower area with four shower heads with a stall shower on each end. That is typically used by fathers with their kids prior to heading back into the lockeroom. I would say 99.9% of the time people keep their swimsuits on in this area because of the kids. Well, we head into the father/kids shower area and here stands two males (about 40 and 16/17 years old) in the buff, their crops and twigs and berries in full glory. Taken aback at first:eek:, becuase this is not normal at this Y, I put the boys and I in the far shower stall. OK no problem so far. I always finish my shower first (with suit on, no need to go buff) and dry off to help the boys next. I step out of the stall to go get my towel and then next thing I see is the young one lathering up his wash cloth and start scrubbing the back of the older guy.:( I head back to the stall, dry off and then get the boys towels. We dry off in the dry off area, head to lockerroom, get dressed and then head for the lobby. The closer I get to the lobby, the more I realize I was troubled by seeing this. I dont mind what people do behind their closed doors, but I guess I would think in public, some couth should be practiced. I stop at the front desk and ask for the on duty management rep. She hear's my story and then pages the building rep. I tell him my observation and the uneasiness it created for me (mostly because of my boys) I know they didnt see it but for me it is not something that should occur in public, especially at a YMCA. They filled out an incident report and indicated they would address it. After I got the boys packed into the car, I then pondered whether I overreacted. I'm not a stiff by any means and I'm sure there are pics somewhere to prove it, I just felt queasy the more I thought about it. I should aslo say I am not a homophobe either, maybe just an overprotective Dad. It was also weird, when I saw them walking in the building, the kid maintained about 15' of distance from this guy and didnt talk to him and then when I saw them in the parking lot, the same thing. About a 20' gap. My wife theorized something else, it just seemeed weird. Sorry to bring this subject here, I'm just trying to get some bearings on whether what I saw was appropriate at such a place. Greg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tex1230 Posted January 18, 2009 Report Share Posted January 18, 2009 <object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CS9OO0S5w2k&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CS9OO0S5w2k&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object> seriously, though...that's pretty messed up to do in front of kids. I don't care what people want to do in the privacy of their homes or in adults-only situations, but when there are kids present show some damn restraint! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobdea Posted January 18, 2009 Report Share Posted January 18, 2009 dude, YMCA known place to cruise. not that it does not happen at any other public place, like a airport bathroom or whatever. not saying it's okay but there's even a song about it. http://www.glbtq.com/social-sciences/ymca.html http://books.google.com/books?id=nNF2FBJU4GMC&pg=PA181&lpg=PA181&dq=YMCA+cruising&source=bl&ots=N70xPfLOVF&sig=HBVh_2wyP-V3b1xV0dENK62j6Mg&hl=en&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=4&ct=result Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kimo Posted January 18, 2009 Report Share Posted January 18, 2009 No!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-Sub Posted January 18, 2009 Report Share Posted January 18, 2009 If you had hollered at them or kicked someones ass you would have overreacted. It's quite clear they were gay and there are several problems with the scenario. 1)the age difference 2)the public display of sexuality 3)showering together 4)public display of sexuality while showering together! you would have been equally dismayed to see two women, or even a man and a woman. The public showers at the Y just aren't the place for that. No, you didn't overreact. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gecko Posted January 18, 2009 Report Share Posted January 18, 2009 No!!! I agree Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Gendzwill Posted January 18, 2009 Report Share Posted January 18, 2009 Well the soaping the back was of course over the top, but I don't see anything wrong with showering in the nude in the men's room at the Y. We only have the one shower room at our local Y, and the kids all have to go through it to get to the pool, so they're going to see some twigs and berries, including occasionally mine because that's the only place I have to shower after I work out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-Sub Posted January 18, 2009 Report Share Posted January 18, 2009 nah, the frank and beans isn't a big deal. it's nature. the rest, not so much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chubz Posted January 18, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 18, 2009 I am glad the replies are grounding me in my decision to speak up today. I dont know if I agree on seeing the twig and berries, mainly because there are two seperate showering areas and the other side was empty with available space. For the 6 years i have been there, it has been a known practice for adult males by themsleves to go thru the right door (its marked on the door)thru that shower area to get to the pool and for kids and parents with kids to go thru the left door to the pool area. Our YMCA is pretty modern, so i has some updates compared to some others I have belong to that might be in an old armory downtown or something like that. I see it as it the amenities are available they should be utilized without subjecting other folks. Just weird to me. I guess I my mind then went to maybe these guys get off being naked in front of other folks, especially kids and that freaks me out and not knowing who these people are. thanks for the feedback. I guess I was also sensitive to it, because about 3 years ago some 14/15 old kid kept approaching my wife (who can hold her own in the looks department, not bragging, I got lucky and married up) in the pool when she took our oldest boy swimming and saying stuff like he loved her, other odd stuff and would just sit and stare at her. I never saw the kid when I went with her, but enough to make me go in on high alert. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobD Posted January 18, 2009 Report Share Posted January 18, 2009 The first post was was a little vague, but from the second post I get it was just the fact that these guys were naked and that they were not doing anything obscene. If that's the case, I would say the problem is yours. Don't ever go to Europe [edit see second post] BobD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingCrimson Posted January 18, 2009 Report Share Posted January 18, 2009 Bob- 16 year old soaping up a 40 year old in front of kids? Damn! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobdea Posted January 18, 2009 Report Share Posted January 18, 2009 I guess I my mind then went to maybe these guys get off being naked in front of other folks, especially kids and that freaks me out and not knowing who these people are. thanks for the feedback. I guess I was also sensitive to it, because about 3 years ago some 14/15 old kid kept approaching my wife (who can hold her own in the looks department, not bragging, I got lucky and married up) in the pool when she took our oldest boy swimming and saying stuff like he loved her, other odd stuff and would just sit and stare at her. I never saw the kid when I went with her, but enough to make me go in on high alert. dude might have issues, good chance he's harmless. There were a few handicapped dudes in town that would do weird things like that. the issue was that people would be more freaked out when it was the guys who don't look like they are disabled but are just as handicapped as the ones that have classic disability look then take people that look completely normal but say and do weird **** they scare people. I used to volunteer and we'd get groups of disabled teenagers that would try to hit on the girls there, same sort of thing. "you're pretty, I love you" can you tell which of the two people in that picture is autistic? it sucks, those are the same people that you read about police beating and tazing that happen to be disabled because we expect those that are disabled to LOOK a certain way. given, the kid in your case could of been the next Ted Bundy but I doubt it. about the queers, if they were not doing anything I'd probably let it go or tell them outright to get a room. Most people when you tell them in a firm way comply and go away. Should you have to do that? No, but some people do that **** anyway but when told don't want to hassel anyone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-Sub Posted January 18, 2009 Report Share Posted January 18, 2009 can you tell which of the two people in that picture is autistic? yeah. the 2nd one. the first has down's syndrome. and? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobD Posted January 18, 2009 Report Share Posted January 18, 2009 Bob- 16 year old soaping up a 40 year old in front of kids? Damn! Whoops, I missed that bit. Thats a little strange. Does "in full glory" mean hard, Then I'd say these guys are abusing a public place. Take their license plate# and report them to the police. BobD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobdea Posted January 18, 2009 Report Share Posted January 18, 2009 second picture D, the man or gawdy ass woman. neither of them look disabled. either would be a fair guess. the downs kid is obvious!? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobdea Posted January 18, 2009 Report Share Posted January 18, 2009 Whoops, I missed that bit. Thats a little strange. Does "in full glory" mean hard, Then I'd say these guys are abusing a public place. Take their license plate# and report them to the police.BobD who carded the 16 yo? probably was legal! I was buying beer and not getting cared at 16, I know a dude that's 30 and still gets carded. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-Sub Posted January 18, 2009 Report Share Posted January 18, 2009 second picture D, the man or gawdy ass woman.neither of them look disabled. either would be a fair guess. the downs kid is obvious!? The son. Autism is a newer issue, brought on by vaccines. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobdea Posted January 18, 2009 Report Share Posted January 18, 2009 no, it might be in part caused by them but autism is not new at all yes, it is the boy. you used the wrong logic to deduce that BTW not saying there is nothing to it, saying that it was around prior to vaccines. See also: Sociological and cultural aspects of autism A few examples of autistic symptoms and treatments were described long before autism was named. The Table Talk of Martin Luther contains the story of a 12-year-old boy who may have been severely autistic.[144] According to Luther's notetaker Mathesius, Luther thought the boy was a soulless mass of flesh possessed by the devil, and suggested that he be suffocated.[145] The Wild Boy of Aveyron, a feral child caught in 1798, showed several signs of autism; the medical student Jean Itard treated him with a behavioral program designed to help him form social attachments and to induce speech via imitation.[146] The New Latin word autismus (English translation autism) was coined by the Swiss psychiatrist Eugen Bleuler in 1910 as he was defining symptoms of schizophrenia. He derived it from the Greek word autos (αὐτός, meaning self), and used it to mean morbid self-admiration, referring to "autistic withdrawal of the patient to his fantasies, against which any influence from outside becomes an intolerable disturbance."[147] Leo Kanner introduced the label early infantile autism in 1943. The word autism first took its modern sense in 1938 when Hans Asperger of the Vienna University Hospital adopted Bleuler's terminology "autistic psychopaths" in a lecture in German about child psychology.[148] Asperger was investigating a form of ASD now known as Asperger syndrome, though for various reasons it was not widely recognized as a separate diagnosis until 1981.[146] Leo Kanner of the Johns Hopkins Hospital first used autism in its modern sense in English when he introduced the label early infantile autism in a 1943 report of 11 children with striking behavioral similarities.[26] Almost all the characteristics described in Kanner's first paper on the subject, notably "autistic aloneness" and "insistence on sameness", are still regarded as typical of the autistic spectrum of disorders.[51] It is not known whether Kanner derived the term independently of Asperger.[37] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobD Posted January 18, 2009 Report Share Posted January 18, 2009 The son. Autism is a newer issue, brought on by vaccines. That's a sweeping statement. Not wanting to drift the thread, but my son, who has Aspergers did not have any suspect vaccines until he was 16 and needed to have them in order to move to the US. They had no part in his Autism. In the UK, Kids that had difficult births were advised at that time (1980s) not to have vaccines as that association with Autism was suspected. BobD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EnisiWaya Posted January 18, 2009 Report Share Posted January 18, 2009 Bobdea, Asperger was investigating a form of ASD now known as Asperger syndrome, though for various reasons it was not widely recognized as a separate diagnosis until 1981.Bob you may be the only other person I have"met" in 10 years who actually knows about aspergers syndrome. I have a mild form of it my self along with a massive case of AADD. I have read some of the extensive studies done by fellow Mensans on our fellow members. It seems that you have a likely hood of AADD just by being in the 2% gang. As you go down to in the 1.0% and further into the 0.2 percentile occurrences become more likely and forms from mild to severe Aspergers start to show up with regularity. When you get down to 0.02 percentiles you probably have significant cases of both but most folks do not notice and even many professionals would miss it as your so called IQ has helped you to develop many coping mechanisms. Coping however is not being in control and or even living with with it successfully. you are always in danger of your single application mechanism not fitting the actual situation. This usually leads to an equally not easily noticed (because of way above normal coping mechs) situation of significant Bi-polar status. Ain't life a beach, sooner or later you are bound to get sand in your crack.I have worked with many finish carpenters and engineers with severe aspergers. The upper management could never understAND how i got so much productivity out of them. Well i spent a whole lit of time studying it on the internet. So I guess that means i have a set of more complex coping mechs than average. LOL Recognition of Aspergers has been limited and only since 81 in this country till just in the last four years or so as you stated. However in France and Switzerland as well as IIRC Austria and Italy it has been well recognized since the early 50s. Chase H. Kenyon, CMfgE,M Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 18, 2009 Report Share Posted January 18, 2009 I think you may have overreacted in reporting to the management. While yeah, washing another guy's back may be a touch on the odd side, especially in a public place, so be it. If nothing overtly sexual was going on, why be concerned? I'll use massage as an example. I was in an airport recently and a guy was giving a girl a massage. That, just as much as the washing of the back, could be construed as sexual. What's the big deal anyways? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-Sub Posted January 18, 2009 Report Share Posted January 18, 2009 I think you may have overreacted in reporting to the management. While yeah, washing another guy's back may be a touch on the odd side, especially in a public place, so be it. If nothing overtly sexual was going on, why be concerned?I'll use massage as an example. I was in an airport recently and a guy was giving a girl a massage. That, just as much as the washing of the back, could be construed as sexual. What's the big deal anyways? were they unclothed? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobdea Posted January 18, 2009 Report Share Posted January 18, 2009 yeah, I've got issues to. My IQ is fairly high and I never had a diagnosis that said "autistic" or "asperger's" but there were passing mentions of "shows signs of autism" and other PDD type stuff was mentioned on a few of the evals I had. I'm well off enough that I'm weird and nothing else. I don't stim too much or anything. Alright with other stuff that were issues when I was younger that are not issues now, stuff like making eye contact some speech issues. I'm not saying I could not talk but I used to have a ton of trouble talking when I should not be and and in proper tone. I'm not sure if was age or years of heavy drug use or both that mellowed me out but I'm more normal than I was a decade ago. Now, I'm dealing with my girlfriend's son that's on the spectrum. He's going to have a rough time in life, he's exceptionally tall and is the hit with all the little girls. The reason he's going have such a hard time is just the last sentence. He's high enough functioning that he's verbal enough that he seems normal at first glance but needs as many services if not more than a downs kid that people would look at and instantly know they were different. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tex1230 Posted January 18, 2009 Report Share Posted January 18, 2009 D-Sub, There has never been an recognized scientific study linking Autism to vacines. The dramatic rise in reported cases of autism over the past couple of decades is almost entirely attributable to the broadening of the recognized spectrum of autism related conditions and improved diagnostic techniques. I also have several family members with Asperger's syndrome (3 who are formally diagnosed and several others who showed the signs but never had a formal diagnosis due to age - nobody knew what this was in the 60's and 70's - they just called you "hyper"), some of whom had full series of vaccinations and some who did not. Based on my reading and my own observations, there is a much stronger case for genetic causes than for environmental causes. http://jama.ama-assn.org/cgi/content/abstract/290/13/1763 http://jama.ama-assn.org/cgi/content/abstract/285/9/1183 Two major studies published in JAMA showing no evidence of relationships between thimerisol (sp?) and MMR vaccines to incidence of autism Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b0ardski Posted January 18, 2009 Report Share Posted January 18, 2009 a comment like "get a room or take it somewhere else" to the persons in the shower may have been more appropiate than involving management as long as nothing blatantly sexual was going on. $.02 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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