Coloradoking Posted December 18, 2008 Report Share Posted December 18, 2008 Just because the board has rocker does not mean that there is no pressure on the tip or tail while in the turn. im not saying that there is no nose/tail pressure in the turn; im just saying there is a period between turns where there will be no contact on the nose/tail of the board; and there will be a space after that when there is contact but no pressure; i know this is minute, but in a race you dont want to have to compromise anything i dont mean to criticise rockered boards, until i ride one i cant really say anything as a fact; (at least a hardboot setup; i ride a lib tech skate banana in the park) but i feel like there is a lot of room for skepticism with this technology Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Varsava Posted December 18, 2008 Report Share Posted December 18, 2008 im not saying that there is no nose/tail pressure in the turn; im just saying there is a period between turns where there will be no contact on the nose/tail of the board; and there will be a space after that when there is contact but no pressure; i know this is minute, but in a race you dont want to have to compromise anythingi dont mean to criticise rockered boards, until i ride one i cant really say anything as a fact; (at least a hardboot setup; i ride a lib tech skate banana in the park) but i feel like there is a lot of room for skepticism with this technology My feelings exactly!! Lots of flat riding in freecarving too. Of course a good rider can ride anything but I don't foresee a good predictable ride without a bit of tip/tail pressure BV Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJFluff Posted December 18, 2008 Report Share Posted December 18, 2008 I don't want it. I think it should be tested by the best in hardboots. Yeah sure, I'll ride it. Does it come with a manual? Ahhh, who reads directions. I'll just do it like I've always done it. Carve left, carve right, repeat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RDY_2_Carve Posted December 18, 2008 Report Share Posted December 18, 2008 Thanks for the great discussion guys. And thanks for the mods for not locking this thread or whatever...I never thought it was heading in a bad direction?!!? BOL is starting to feel like a true internet forum with technical discussions and differences of opinion. What other forum in any industry has these "big names" having well thought out discussions and sharing their thoughts on technology and designs? We are so blessed here at BOL to have all of these resources at our disposal...and to think a simple trip to Aspen in Feb normally means meeting some of these people face to face and making some turns with world class riders and board builders. Unreal! What other sport has this luxury? Just in this single thread we have: Jack, an excellent technical freecarver whom I personally would love to have 1/2 of his skills. His articles have reached so many and helped shape the image of alpine snowboarding. Without Jack many of us would have been trial and error types looking like posers on a "race setup". Bruce, the guy that built the best board I've ever owned or ridden. Just think this "guy" that we are all chatting with makes some of the best boards on the planet, and he custom built it "just for you". Simply amazing. Sean, aka Mr. Donek, don't think for a second this guy is behind the power curve because he's just not getting into the metal scene. I still cannot wait to try the Razor and see if it can be the board to retire me from hardboots? Why do I have a feeling I'll be leaving SES 09 with a new Donek in my trunk?!?! Phil, the Mr. Miyagi of alpine snowboard racing. Every time he posts I'm all ears and I love the fact that we can get 1st hand feedback on what's hot on the race scene RIGHT NOW. Mr. Tinkie. The man that builds these amazing exotics that are pushing the envelope on what's considered do-able. How are we to evolve without these types of people in our industry? Guys-don't think for a second us lurkers aren't taking notes and enjoying every word of this thread. I think it's great to see people disagree, dispute new ideas, and builders pushing the envelope. If we are not questioning, testing, and developing then we certainly aren't evolving now are we? To think my Coiler 172 AM-T is 2-3 year old technology is just mind boggling because I can't imagine it getting much better than that! One last note to Mr. Tinkie: I personaly DON'T want to demo your board. I don't think I have the self control to say NO when your board blows me away. The same goes for a Virus or any other high end "exotic" board. It was already hard enough justifying ~$900 USD on a custom Coiler for a guy that only rides 25-30 days a season! The WORST thing Tinkler can do is show up to SES with a handful of demo boards. Quite frankly I don't think you could keep up with the demand if you did. Anybody remember the wait time on a Coiler a few years ago?!?! So keep doing what you're doing guys...I'm going to keep reaping the benefits as I carve left, carve right, and repeat (as Mr. JJFluff so eloquently put it). P.S. You should have seen the faces @ Taos this past Sunday when I was railing in HB's on a Lib Magne-Traction on THE BUNNY SLOPE! :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack M Posted December 18, 2008 Report Share Posted December 18, 2008 Thanks RDY_2_Carve. One correction though, Donek released their metal board to the public this year, and they have been developing and testing it for many years. I have a lot of confidence in Donek, I absolutely loved the 2 I owned, and I think their metal boards will be real contenders. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donek Posted December 18, 2008 Report Share Posted December 18, 2008 If I quit by noon, my wife would lock the door on the house and leave me in the shop till I built her a new board:) I need the rest of the day to talk with customers, take orders, program the cnc, print and manipulate custom graphics, and of course play hide and seek with my daughter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeoffV Posted December 18, 2008 Report Share Posted December 18, 2008 I've been following this thread (like many others) and it has been interesting to see all the responses, its great to see Sean, Bruce and Mike following this thread and posting. The one thing I have not been able gather from all the responses is how a "rockered " board is suppose to function for free carving. This question is directed at Mike Tinkler can you please clarify a lot of questions around Pokkis board design and how one would expect this board to function and work on snow. What are the advantages to having a rocker design versus traditional boards with camber? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b0ardski Posted December 18, 2008 Report Share Posted December 18, 2008 This thread is a techeads dream:biggthump Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Varsava Posted December 18, 2008 Report Share Posted December 18, 2008 I've been following this thread (like many others) and it has been interesting to see all the responses, its great to see Sean, Bruce and Mike following this thread and posting. The one thing I have not been able gather from all the responses is how a "rockered " board is suppose to function for free carving.This question is directed at Mike Tinkler can you please clarify a lot of questions around Pokkis board design and how one would expect this board to function and work on snow. What are the advantages to having a rocker design versus traditional boards with camber? That same point occurred to me. We all are describing what we want or think it can or can't do but what does the builder or rep say its supposed to do? Yknow as it seems like there are no demos, I could whip up a quick proto without all the fancy stuff just for interests sake. Who wants to give up their production spot?:) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Varsava Posted December 18, 2008 Report Share Posted December 18, 2008 I need the rest of the day to talk with customers, take orders, program the cnc, print and manipulate custom graphics, and of course play hide and seek with my daughter. Whew, I thought you were just fooling around after noontime and was starting to wonder why my days are double and sometimes more than that in hours:freak3: Oh well I rememeber fondly the days of kiteboarding and golfing and thinking winter will never come Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tex1230 Posted December 18, 2008 Report Share Posted December 18, 2008 That same point occurred to me. We all are describing what we want or think it can or can't do but what does the builder or rep say its supposed to do?Yknow as it seems like there are no demos, I could whip up a quick proto without all the fancy stuff just for interests sake. Who wants to give up their production spot?:) I'm sure Shred wouldn't mind if you kicked the X23 (or whatever he's on at this point) back a couple of months :D Seriously, though...if any of you can't get your hands on one of these exotics and you are still comfortable on two planks, go to your local ski shop and demo a pair of reverse camber skis. I can't say for sure the performance will be identical, but I can say that based on my experience on the old rockered boards and the modern rockered skis (and the reverse/reverse - rocker and negative sidecut) I have no interest in trying to ride a rockered board (which has half the edge contact of skis to start with) at any speed on hardpack. They kick a$$ in powder, and that is where they belong. I also wonder why Bryan and Tinkler so vocally attacked Jack when they had no response to Kildy's callout here: http://www.bomberonline.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=22643&highlight=kildy+flex Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b0ardski Posted December 18, 2008 Report Share Posted December 18, 2008 How about a schtubby with rockered powder tips??? A foot of snow overnight has got me going. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Varsava Posted December 18, 2008 Report Share Posted December 18, 2008 I'm sure Shred wouldn't mind if you kicked the X23 (or whatever he's on at this point) back a couple of months :D X23 has hi camber nose and reverse camber tail. Production date due Dec 2047:lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Varsava Posted December 18, 2008 Report Share Posted December 18, 2008 How about a schtubby with rockered powder tips??? The Schtub and AM are extremely similar in design and materials. I am in the process of setting up my press to do twin tip stuff at which time I can do all that easily as it was only originally built for shorter alpine tails. Check out this Titanal twin carve model 165 x 23.5 x 13.2m 151 effective. Tested and worked great but I didn't have the skill nor balls to ride it backwards. Also too lazy to rotate the bindings and ride it forwards going backwards:) By hand flexing it I am sure the tweaks I made for reverse initiation will work fine. This is the model I tested which has additional tail decamber and it indicated to me that it was a bit tail happy compared to a more fully cambered model. Not so much that after a run or two, it felt normal. Difference was about 2mm so it is slightly noticeable even at that small increment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b0ardski Posted December 18, 2008 Report Share Posted December 18, 2008 As a switch carver this is exciting to me. I want to carve hard switch and launch a 180 off the side of the groomer into the pow/trees. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Varsava Posted December 18, 2008 Report Share Posted December 18, 2008 As a switch carver this is exciting to me. I want to carve hard switch and launch a 180 off the side of the groomer into the pow/trees. Have to wait and see how the owner likes it but I am sure it will do just fine! I also changed the materials a bit to get a bit more liveliness without any noticeable ill effects on ice, That was also a success! The reason is the metal boards do not ollie very well so just trying to get a bit more of the ever popular "pop" into its characteristics as you would need it to be bouncing back and forth from regular to switch. For me it was a pain in the ass to work on as I often did not know which end was the front:) The nose was 2 cm longer than the tail but as you can see had exactly the same shape BV Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b0ardski Posted December 18, 2008 Report Share Posted December 18, 2008 I'm saving my pennies for an X/X shtubby. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeoffV Posted December 18, 2008 Report Share Posted December 18, 2008 I'm saving my pennies for an X/X schtubby. This is a prototype x/x Schtubby:eek: If you aren't feeling daring enough to ride down the mountain on a racy Burton Playboy snowboard, there's another way to piss off everyone around you: a gas-powered snowboard. For a mere $2,000, this motorized shredder will send you down the mountain with 6.5 hp as long as you weigh less than 250 lbs. With a 3/4 gallon gas tank, it provides at least two hours of fun going for "wide, graceful turns or aggressive Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tex1230 Posted December 18, 2008 Report Share Posted December 18, 2008 This is a prototype x/x Schtubby:eek: If you aren't feeling daring enough to ride down the mountain on a racy Burton Playboy snowboard, there's another way to piss off everyone around you: a gas-powered snowboard. For a mere $2,000, this motorized shredder will send you down the mountain with 6.5 hp as long as you weigh less than 250 lbs. With a 3/4 gallon gas tank, it provides at least two hours of fun going for "wide, graceful turns or aggressive I be with some work that thing could be fun...like maybe strap your little triple to it ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MUD Posted December 18, 2008 Report Share Posted December 18, 2008 I also wonder why Bryan and Tinkler so vocally attacked Jack when they had no response to Kildy's callout here: http://www.bomberonline.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=22643&highlight=kildy+flex Ya ever have a post that said something negative about Virus? The loyal viri come out in force. I think this is Bryan's case. He believes in MT and speaks as such. Jack personally attacked MT's integrity. Kildy was rather nice about it. MT would have best served himself letting others argue for him, but you can only take so much. Trying to defend yourself on the internet is impossible. There are too many self proclaimed experts and know-it-alls to ever stop once you start..... You stated in your rip on me that you are an ex-Look rider (or at least paid to ride Looks), how do I know this to be true? I told you I own a trick stick and a kick, how do you know this too be true...... The internet is a world in and of itself. We should embrace having people on it like Mike, Bruce and Sean. instead, we attack them when they think outside the (our) box............ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tex1230 Posted December 18, 2008 Report Share Posted December 18, 2008 you don't know if it's true... doesn't matter... My question was that these guys get all up in arms about someone questioning the thinking behind a design, but say absolutely nothing when one of the most respected snowboard racers ever comes out and basically accuses one of them of ripping off his design. Is this a case of "fight the battles you think you can win" ?? In other news, even though I am sick as a dog and stuck at home, We are supposed to have a foot of snow tomorrow so I'm taking the trick stick out and shredding the hill next to my house! (it's about 30 feet vertical...Gnarly!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Stevens Posted December 18, 2008 Report Share Posted December 18, 2008 I'm taking the trick stick out and shredding the hill next to my house! (it's about 30 feet vertical...Gnarly!) Take your bindings off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MUD Posted December 18, 2008 Report Share Posted December 18, 2008 you don't know if it's true...doesn't matter... My question was that these guys get all up in arms about someone questioning the thinking behind a design, but say absolutely nothing when one of the most respected snowboard racers ever comes out and basically accuses one of them of ripping off his design. Is this a case of "fight the battles you think you can win" ?? In other news, even though I am sick as a dog and stuck at home, We are supposed to have a foot of snow tomorrow so I'm taking the trick stick out and shredding the hill next to my house! (it's about 30 feet vertical...Gnarly!) Good points. I see what you mean....... I wish we would even get 12 inches of snow in one storm...... If it wasn't for manmade, we would have a hard time getting out at all. We used to ride local golf courses before the areas allowed us..... It was the only place you could ride with a 6 inch base that didn't have rocks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tex1230 Posted December 18, 2008 Report Share Posted December 18, 2008 Take your bindings off. I might try that but I have too put in some nails for traction or something Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MUD Posted December 18, 2008 Report Share Posted December 18, 2008 I might try that but I have too put in some nails for traction or something We used surf board foam (I don't know if they call it a stomp pad). It worked for a little while until it iced up. As long as everything stays COLD, it works pretty good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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