D-Sub Posted June 22, 2004 Report Share Posted June 22, 2004 I just realized I completely missed the subtopic, which was "in the bumps" seems that a skier is more suited to this, but Im not sure why. but then the original post went on to compare other aspects of skiing vs snowboarding isnt this an old, tired argument? I still say ride what you have the most fun on Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Dahl Posted June 22, 2004 Report Share Posted June 22, 2004 I've seen 2 that do really well in the moguls, one is a friend of mine, softbooter, who has a very smooth, well timed technique. The other is pepe lepew (Eric) who just flat rocks in the moguls on his Madd 170! It's not an equipment issue, it's an "nut behind the wheel" issue. Proper technique will always mean more tham "proper" equipment. Now, if I could just get that technique down! BTW, skier or snowboarder, we have the same ability to modify a turn when in it by changing angulation, edge pressure, etc. That argument holds no water at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest thomas_m Posted June 22, 2004 Report Share Posted June 22, 2004 Originally posted by Jon Dahl I've seen 2 that do really well in the moguls, one is a friend of mine, softbooter, who has a very smooth, well timed technique. The other is pepe lepew (Eric) who just flat rocks in the moguls on his Madd 170! It's not an equipment issue, it's an "nut behind the wheel" issue. Proper technique will always mean more tham "proper" equipment. Now, if I could just get that technique down! BTW, skier or snowboarder, we have the same ability to modify a turn when in it by changing angulation, edge pressure, etc. That argument holds no water at all. I'll second the opinion on Eric. Surprised the schitt out of me to see him fly down the modgul pitches at Crystal. T. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timinor Posted June 22, 2004 Report Share Posted June 22, 2004 The skier's position is NOT natural bio-mechanically. Knees are not designed to bend laterally. The freestyle snowboard position is a natural movement for the knees, hips and ankles. ie God meant us to snowboard. There is a dirty secret about skiing, ski boots and skis. It is a sport determined by natural selection. ie All men are not created equally. One's skeletal structure determines the transference of pressure to the edge of the ski being efficient or (in most cases) very inefficient. Watch skiers. Most of them cannot carve a pure edge to save their life. It's impossible for them and they rotate and lean to compensate. This is not the case for snowboarders. Therefore, skiing sucks and snowboarding rules.:D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarvCanada Posted June 22, 2004 Report Share Posted June 22, 2004 Surlyone, i suggest you watch a few videos... Opus 3 at www.extremecarving.com and C&C 2003 at www.carvingmachine.com then maybe you will understand .. circles, and the term.. carve, by what we mean it to be Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobdea Posted June 23, 2004 Report Share Posted June 23, 2004 Originally posted by timinor The skier's position is NOT natural bio-mechanically. Knees are not designed to bend laterally. The freestyle snowboard position is a natural movement for the knees, hips and ankles. ie God meant us to snowboard. There is a dirty secret about skiing, ski boots and skis. It is a sport determined by natural selection. ie All men are not created equally. One's skeletal structure determines the transference of pressure to the edge of the ski being efficient or (in most cases) very inefficiently. Watch skiers. Most of them cannot carve a pure edge to save their life and they rotate and lean to compensate. This is not the case for snowboarders. Therefore, skiing sucks and snowboarding rules.:D indeed it is so much easier to rip carves on a board and skiers that ride on the side have said the same to me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommy D Posted June 23, 2004 Report Share Posted June 23, 2004 Originally posted by bobdea indeed it is so much easier to rip carves on a board and skiers that ride on the side have said the same to me I am proficient at both, but only after many years of being on the snow. Carving on a snowboard is definitely easier than skis, though the general dynamic is the same. IMO, this has less to do with which way your body is facing (Proper form is important for both disciplines), but more to do with location of forces acting on the board or ski edge. IE-proper form in snowboarding allows for better, more efficient edge pressure (dare I say stronger edge hold?) Crap, I don't think that makes much sense. If anyone knows what I'm trying to say, please elaborate! :) Or just read the tech articles on angulation and inclination (http://bomberonline.com//articles/inclination_angulation.cfm) and Pysics of a carved turn(http://bomberonline.com//articles/physics.cfm)! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiwanoron Posted June 23, 2004 Report Share Posted June 23, 2004 I skied for 12 years, instructed and raced - then I tried a soft boot snowboard setup - went back to skiing! One Year later I tried a hard boot setup, Guess What??? I sold ALL of my ski equipment and have been riding snowboards ever since! I would rather Snowboard Any Day, Any Condition - Powder, ice, moguls, crud, groomers, backcountry, I have even ridden a burton ultra prime with hard boots on a heli boarding trip! If you want to ski, Then go ski! If snowboarding is too HARD for you to learn, then stop your crying and keep skiing...I Do not care what you use to get down the mountain, I will be coming down the mountain on my snowboard! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FTA2R Posted June 23, 2004 Report Share Posted June 23, 2004 "who cares! If skis work better for you, ride two of em! If a snowboard with hardboots gets your dick/nipples hard? more power! Short board, soft setup, duck stance? ROCK ON!" I couldn't agree more. who cares! go pursue a girl or something... --- Barry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-Sub Posted June 23, 2004 Report Share Posted June 23, 2004 y'all are doing exactly what I did, and ignoring the main premise of the question: IN. THE. BUMPS. thats all he was asking. me personally, I hate em, and avoid em at all costs, so I dont care whats more efficient in em:) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Gendzwill Posted June 23, 2004 Report Share Posted June 23, 2004 Originally posted by D-Sub y'all are doing exactly what I did, and ignoring the main premise of the question: IN. THE. BUMPS. thats all he was asking. That's not all he was asking, that was part of what he was asking. Me, I love bumps and beat most skiers down them, but the really good ones still leave me in the dust. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timinor Posted June 23, 2004 Report Share Posted June 23, 2004 15 years ago snowboarding was treated like the evil stepchild of skiing. As long as we stayed in our place at the back of the bus, the masser skiers would let us on their mountain. 15 years later skiing is struggling to keep it's heritage alive. The skis have been completely redesigned copying boards. All the young skiers want to do is imitate the boarders in the pipe and park. The most popular events were popularized by snowboarding. Boardercross rules and ski racing can't get air time on TV. At this years Junior Nationals at Mt. Bachelor, the coaches biggest problem was keeping their ski racers out of the pipe and snowboard park to come and take their run. The older skiers are all on shaped skis imitating the snowboard freecarvers. In the powder? Forget about it. Moguls? I love em on my board. Aesthetics? Snowboarders are graceful and natural. Skiers are...well...not. The facts are clear. Snowboarding rules and skiing is now the lesser sport playing catch-up and imitate. Snowboarding led the sport of skiing out of it's PSIA dominated, you have to ski our way, learn the position, don't drop your hands, doledrums into the world of create your own fun and if I want to do it my way, I will and love every minute. Bottom line? If the snowboard had been invented first, skiing would never have been invented. Why would someone want to invent an inferior way down the mountain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarvCanada Posted June 24, 2004 Report Share Posted June 24, 2004 strictly from a carving perspective, the body position of a snowboarder (on hardboots at >40 degrees) allows for muh more dynamic carving true, skis have MUCH more effective edge length (almost double in most cases! you have 2 skis!) but even if you have perfect technique and put exactly 50% of pressure on each ski to get max edge hold, a snowboard has the advantage. You have 2 points of pressure on the board, and you can slide the pressure forward and backwards along the effective edge. every good carver makes use of this and initiates the turn by driving their weight forward much more than a skier can, and slipping it back throughout the carve also, a snowboarder has more angulation/inclination options, giving him/her the ability to make the same carving radius at high speeds and low speeds. skis have a much smaller margin for identical carving radiii so.. SNOWBoard carving's more FUN!! ironically (since most semi-educated skier/snwboarders think that skis are for carving fast, snowboards for laid back tricks) I really think the freeskying tricks look SO much smoother and better than their snowboard freestyle tricks... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-Sub Posted June 24, 2004 Report Share Posted June 24, 2004 Originally posted by Neil Gendzwill That's not all he was asking, that was part of what he was asking. Me, I love bumps and beat most skiers down them, but the really good ones still leave me in the dust. "snowboarders vs skiers get it on in the bumps " taken from the very top of the post. Im not a big fan of "skiing sucks" type attitudes either. Is it just a backlash for when we were mistreated? Ive experienced that just as much as anyone, having been riding since 1990. Not as long as a few, but pretty damn long. I just dont see the point Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Gendzwill Posted June 24, 2004 Report Share Posted June 24, 2004 Originally posted by timinor Aesthetics? Snowboarders are graceful and natural. Skiers are...well...not. Some snowboarders are graceful. Most are side-slipping, toilet-sitting blights on the scenery. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knoch Posted June 24, 2004 Report Share Posted June 24, 2004 It's all the same, sticks with metal edges strapped to your feet on the snow. Who cares what the differances are really. We all live for the same passion. Why should anyone have to prove if one is better than the other? If everyone was trying to prove that what they did was better, there would be brawling on the hills. Now i'm not sayin i wouldn't get a kick out of that, i mean i have seen some crazy rednecks go at it on the slopes, but really, why does it matter? Why can't we all just get along? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest AlpentalRider Posted June 24, 2004 Report Share Posted June 24, 2004 Actually I think everyone should sit and argue their points in great detail. Maybe even have a summit for everyone to get together and debate the topic... and while all of you are doing that, i'll be gettin' fresh pow with no lift lines :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-Sub Posted June 24, 2004 Report Share Posted June 24, 2004 Ill be there with ya then Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Gendzwill Posted June 25, 2004 Report Share Posted June 25, 2004 Originally posted by knoch Why can't we all just get along? Cuz that would be really boring, what on earth would we discuss while there's no snow? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knoch Posted June 25, 2004 Report Share Posted June 25, 2004 Well here's one, whats the most interesting name you've ever seen for a run and at what resort. Or going in the opposite direction, how many illigal drugs do you think it's physically possable to get to show up in a single urine test, oh and i mean in the U.S. . I'd go ahead and start these up as new threads, but they're both kind of rediculous questions and i can see this debate is going nowhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest johann Posted June 25, 2004 Report Share Posted June 25, 2004 doesn't that depend on what drugs they are testing for? If we don't know what tests are being done on the urine,, its like asking how many ice cubes of size x can you fit in a glass. if ya don't know the size of the glass its a silly question. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest stoked Posted June 25, 2004 Report Share Posted June 25, 2004 I grew up with skiing but the last time I skied was before 1993 when I started snowboarding. I happened to spend my first snowboarding day in hardboots on a freecarveboard so I never thought about going back to skiing :) Also these days with the carving skis it's the same thing I mean even if you actually carve with them you don't have as many options for carving than with alpine snowboards. Most of all leaning in low with upright body (straight knees) is completely impossible on skis but one of the greatest things about freecarving. Plus I just like the snowboard riding feeling better than skiing so I even prefer freestyleboards over skis anytime. Hey I guess I'd definitely be cooler if I was a fulltime softbooter hm ... Maybe I should do that next season it sounds tempting so if anyone wants to take over my website please let me know ... Ah f*c* it I remember reading on some ad that snowboarding is about fun. And I'm stoked haha the usual spam but it's true at least in winter and I even believe those freestylers and skiiers sometimes when they say they are too. http://stoked.at Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest surlyone Posted June 26, 2004 Report Share Posted June 26, 2004 holy crap..... as for circles I can carve circles in my soft boots...maybe not as tight as hard booters. None of this stuff has anything to do with my original question. I was warned by a wise man to alter my post in a way to alleviate the skier snowboarder battle royal theme. I should have listened and acted promptly. Through everything though....I have extracted some valuable information. Thanks to everyone who gave answers to my questions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Art Posted June 27, 2004 Report Share Posted June 27, 2004 I usually keep my nose out of these debates but this looks tempting for some reason. Probably because I was a crappy skier (ok, I'm still a crappy skier) but I can appreciate watching a talented skier any day be it on the bumps or the go fast racer types arcing consistant turns on any type of run. I will open myself up to the old "you couldn't ski so you learned how to snowboard" fodder now. I can't deny that, but it was a cute girl who introduced me to snowboarding on a suny spring day at Baker that got me back on the mountain. I saw some guys in Whistler on alpine boards and decided thats what I wanted to do and that led me to where I am now in the Alpine forum. All I want to do now is become a better boarder. To me that means challenging myself in all types of terrain and conditions. Some days are better than others, meaning sometimes I feel like I kick ass in the bumps, fog, crud, ice, and some days I cant buy a turn on the hero snow. I'm not really into the whole ski/snowboard debate. Lets face it: on your local hill, what percentage of skiers/boarders are really technically sound? The vast majority are recreational weekenders out to have a good time, whatever that means to them. The side by side comparison? I guess it depends on the talent on the hill on any given day. Personally, I would love to see it. Then I'll buy the winner a beer and he can talk all he wants and I'll go home and take care of the important things in life. By the way my son has been on skis since he was 1 1/2 years old (he's 3) and will continue to ski untill he decides otherwise. Same for his soon to arrive little bro. And the best name I saw on a run is Art's Knob. Next?:D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean Posted June 27, 2004 Report Share Posted June 27, 2004 Originally posted by Art ...The vast majority are recreational weekenders out to have a good time, whatever that means to them. The side by side comparison? I guess it depends on the talent on the hill on any given day. Personally, I would love to see it. Then I'll buy the winner a beer and he can talk all he wants and I'll go home and take care of the important things in life. By the way my son has been on skis since he was 1 1/2 years old (he's 3) and will continue to ski untill he decides otherwise. Same for his soon to arrive little bro. And the best name I saw on a run is Art's Knob. Next?:D Well said Art. One board or two, its all good. -Sean "sleepless in Tacoma" Cassidy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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