Bobby Buggs Posted November 23, 2008 Report Share Posted November 23, 2008 Ok physics gurus... If you look at some of the best bindings out today they have a significant lift off the board. I have been using the F2 intecs and the base plate mounts right directly to the board. The only lift is the intec interface points on the carrier blocks. What is the benefit of the higher base plate bindings. If I were to raise the base plate would that let me sneak down a few degrees lower without boot drag. I have some of the discs from the F2 Titan flex version which add a good 1/2 -3/4 of an Inch lift to the base plate but I have not used them for years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobby Buggs Posted November 23, 2008 Author Report Share Posted November 23, 2008 No one??? not even you Bob D?? :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobdea Posted November 23, 2008 Report Share Posted November 23, 2008 I'm not sure height in it's self does much other than helps you ride slightly lower angles. it does however allow for things to go on under you. look at the td2, the grey pieces under the catek FR and even the pads under some of the other softboot bindings. a little controlled gushyness really makes the day easier on your legs and I think it might help edge hold too. last year I took a couple runs on some catek WCs, man those were some stiff bindings. with the newer boards that are softer I think bindings like that are overkill even for the bigger guys. I'm a softer binding convert! TT might want video to prove I can ride with the yellow elastomers under my td2s but that's another thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big canuck Posted November 23, 2008 Report Share Posted November 23, 2008 I'm gonna go a little "mad scientist" to start this year. I have a 177 Donek GS that I put my F2 S-Flex plates on with TD2's and a suspension kit. Any input good or bad would be appreciated. As I try it, it I'll give my $0.02 for whatever its worth. Hoping to ride it later this week. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobdea Posted November 23, 2008 Report Share Posted November 23, 2008 I'm gonna go a little "mad scientist" to start this year. I have a 177 Donek GS that I put my F2 S-Flex plates on with TD2's and a suspension kit. Any input good or bad would be appreciated. As I try it, it I'll give my $0.02 for whatever its worth. Hoping to ride it later this week. been there with a metal prior, liked the combo best with phiokka machos compared to the bombers with or without suspension Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scotts.Scheinman Posted November 23, 2008 Report Share Posted November 23, 2008 im no physics guru but, i prefer my bindings on the board. having them up high gives you more leverage though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobby Buggs Posted November 24, 2008 Author Report Share Posted November 24, 2008 Leverage, I dont think I need more of that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BadBrad Posted November 24, 2008 Report Share Posted November 24, 2008 That's one of the reasons I've ridden Burton raceplates for so many years -- I like that they are low to the board. Plus they are very light and have a decent amount of flex. Their biggest drawback is limited options for cant/lift. I can get a little with shims under the heel or toe blocks, or use a 7-degree cant plate. The cant/lift options are a lot better with the TD2/TD3 bindings, but they are significantly heavier and lift you up off the board quite a bit, and are quite a bit stiffer too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobby Buggs Posted November 24, 2008 Author Report Share Posted November 24, 2008 So no other reasons to use the discs:confused: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobby Buggs Posted November 24, 2008 Author Report Share Posted November 24, 2008 Jack or any of the tech heads here have an opinion Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boarderboy Posted November 26, 2008 Report Share Posted November 26, 2008 nor a skilled hardbooter. But I can tell you this - back in the day when I was a tutorless beginning rider, I spent a goodly amount of time trying to make Miller's release bindings work, and they were really elevated from the board. When I finally stopped using them, I really "improved" quickly. I'm big-footed and ride mostly AT boots, so I could really use some elevation to deal with boot-out, but give me as low, direct, one-with-the board connection as you can any day! I do use a six degree rear cant for some elevation, though. cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack M Posted November 26, 2008 Report Share Posted November 26, 2008 You actually get <i>less</i> leverage by raising your bindings off the board, but as far as the Bomber or Catek bindings are concerned, the amount of rise is insignificant, IMO. The benefits are that you gain clearance for adjustable cant/lift. Also the binding can have a smaller footprint on the board, resulting in less of a flat spot when the board is bent. With non-zero degree cant discs on Bombers, your heel or toe is quite close to the board. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BadBrad Posted November 26, 2008 Report Share Posted November 26, 2008 I notice a lot of racers are pretty high up off the board, especially if they are using a plate system like the hangl or vist. Is this mainly for the benefits of the plate systems or is the riser an advantage in itself? I also see a lot of ski racers with risers. I assume that is to prevent boot drag at high lean angles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MUD Posted November 26, 2008 Report Share Posted November 26, 2008 You actually get less leverage by raising your bindings off the board, You are going to have to explain that one........... Sounds counter intuitive. I have always been told skiers do it to get more leverage, FIS actually limits lift as to not over do it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack M Posted November 26, 2008 Report Share Posted November 26, 2008 Let me qualify that.... your ankles will have less leverage to tilt the board with a taller binding. Your knees and hips will have more leverage, but that's not always a good thing, because you will have to make a larger motion to create the same change in edge angle. So yeah, MUD, a skier would say risers give them more leverage, because they're not using their ankles to affect edge angle. Again, any use of risers or taller bindings for snowboarding is not for leverage purposes. It's for any other benefit such as cant/lift clearance, the even-flex and dampening effects of a Hangl or Derbyflex, and on skis the reduction of boot-out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MUD Posted November 26, 2008 Report Share Posted November 26, 2008 Let me qualify that.... your ankles will have less leverage to tilt the board with a taller binding. Your knees and hips will have more leverage, but that's not always a good thing, because you will have to make a larger motion to create the same change in edge angle.So yeah, MUD, a skier would say risers give them more leverage, because they're not using their ankles to affect edge angle. Again, any use of risers or taller bindings for snowboarding is not for leverage purposes. It's for any other benefit such as cant/lift clearance, the even-flex and dampening effects of a Hangl or Derbyflex, and on skis the reduction of boot-out. Cool. Thanks for the clarification Jack.... That makes sense to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack M Posted November 26, 2008 Report Share Posted November 26, 2008 heh, I actually had to draw out all the lever arms to be sure. maybe I'll scan it after some turkey. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MUD Posted November 26, 2008 Report Share Posted November 26, 2008 heh, I actually had to draw out all the lever arms to be sure. maybe I'll scan it after some turkey. At least I know it was a well thought out reply..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NateW Posted November 27, 2008 Report Share Posted November 27, 2008 Just go out and riiiide, maaan. Seriously though, in the little bit of experimenting I've done in this area (TD2s with and without suspension kit, plus UPZ boots that sit a little higher than my old Raichle boots), it's been irrelevant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
photodad2001 Posted November 27, 2008 Report Share Posted November 27, 2008 From a physics point of view along with my personal knowledge of the act of snowboarding, I'd have to agree with Jack. The space you're talking about in ratio with weight distribution is insignificant. Think of it this way. If you magnified what you believe to be enhanced performance, try placing 3 inch thick block under your binding. Visualize what that would be like. Now try to imagine riding mounted to your snowboard a foot above. Low center of gravity is optimal. The only logical reason for higher lift is to cant the angle of the lower leg into a position more comfortable and biologically effecient of the joints and angles going on above. ....and this came from photodad? WTF? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Gilmour Posted December 11, 2008 Report Share Posted December 11, 2008 This is actually the same answer in relation to the roll center height for skateboard trucks.. A Randal skateboard truck has a roll center that is low to the ground- whereas a taller truck like a Bennett has a tall turn center. This is right out of motorcycle geometry. So imagine if your lift was as high as the golden gate bridge.. If you wanted to tilt the board to a 45 degree angle from one side to the other... your body would have to move hundreds of yards across- laterally before the board would even go to flat. So the issue with having too much lift is that you can almost get stuck on edge. Also in choppy conditions more ride height can really make the board work you as it has more leverage on you. Of course ..the wider the board... the more your body has to move laterally as well. ________ Vaporite Solo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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