Intecs: to T-nut, or not to T-nut

[Galen]

Just installed my first intec heel. They came with T-nuts, but the instructions from Bomber doesn't mention the need to install them, just to use the screws provided with the intec heels. Are the T-nuts provided for older boots?. My boots are the newer 225's. Should I start over? (changed my avie back, even I found it a little creepy )

[Bordy]

Are the T-nuts provided for older boots?.

yep:biggthump

[Galen]

Thanks Billy, always appreciate you technical expertise:D

[rwmaron]

I just installed a set of Intec heels on my Deluxe LeMans and had the same question - I ended up going with the existing inserts because they looked pretty solid to me, but it's nice to hear Bordy's expert opinion!

[Dr D]

my raichles had the same T-nuts already imbedded in the plastic. I pulled one completely out before I realized I didn't need to replace them. I suppose it depends on whats already in the boot?

[fin]

Yea, I am actually amazed they still include the T-nuts. The boots that needed those where the SB12X series which is now over 12 years old! I suppose it does not hurt but we do get reports of people yanking out their perfectly good threaded inserts and then installing the T-nuts

Tip: Galen, ride the boots for one or two days then go back and re-tighten the Intec screws. They can take a "set" on those Intec heels and need to be tightened down one more time. After that, should not have to touch them.

[Mike Blanz]

I have a set of AF600 that after a few years I found that I was extracting one of the rear boot screws...Even though the screws were tight it was pulling the stock insert thru the shell...

So I drilled out the hole slightly to allow the barrell of the T-nut to go thru and hammered it in...works great....there's no way that I'll pull the T-nut thru the boot base....I put two t-nuts in the rear boot in the rear two screws (toward the heel)

Hold onto your T-nuts!

[Skalpel]

I needed the T nuts for my HEADs. Tried without but they spun when I tried to tighten them... And the boots are 2 years old. So they are a must for the HEAD boots... At least that is my oppinion... :)

[bumpyride]

Anybody that needs to install intec heels in boots that don't have t-nuts, should use a blow dryer to heat the inside of the boot in order to set the t-nuts. It's a whole lot easier, and don't even try it if the boots are cold.

I've mentioned this before, but it was a little older thread.

[Blue Bird]

my experience with the Head boots (new '08) is to definitely T Nut. The stock inserts are worthless for intec's. Haven't tried them on my Raichle's yet

[csquared]

...buy some longer screws (25 mm works well if you can source them) and buy some regular nuts to use as lock nuts on top of the inserts.

Okay, I'm paranoid after having 3 of 4 inserts fail on my rear boot. The inserts were essentially molded-in tee-nuts. The threaded shafts of the inserts fractured away from the retention flange. At least with a lock nut on top, if the shaft fractures, the nut retains the screw. The nut also spreads the pulling load over more area of the insert reducing the probability of fracture.

[NateW]

I check the heel bolts every two or three days of riding, and I usually find one or two screws a little bit loose. Am I doing something wrong? (This is with Raichle 324s, by the way.)

[csquared]

...the loose screw syndrome was how the tee nut fractures started for me. My theory is that the tee nuts deform slightly under pulling loads from the screws. The screw then feels loose so you tighten to take up slack and deform the tee nut a bit more. More riding, more pulling, more deformation, more tightening...eventually metal fatigue or strain causes the fracture to start.

If you take the sole plate out of the bottom of the boot and check the appearance of the tee nuts with a flashlight, you may be able to see the fractures starting. I didn't understand that was what I was seeing initially. It was only once I could see that the boot was flexing away from the heel when it was in the binding that I did a proper investigation. The attached photos show the condition in which I found the heel. You can see the shafts of the tee nuts still on the screws. The screws felt like they were tight because the tee nut shaft had travelled down until it was jammed on top of the cover plate on the heel.

The second shot is the hardware I used to fix the problem. New tee nuts (inserted after driving the remains of the old ones out of the boot shell), M4 x 25 screw (shoulder screws are not ideal because the head diameter is a little smaller than the standard screw), washer to compensate for shoulder screw head diameter, and nut. Last photo shows nuts installed over tee-nuts. Because the tee nut head is recessed, the hex nuts do not conflict with the foot plate of the boot.

So there's the paranoid way to deal with the problem.

[RicHard]

Yea, I am actually amazed they still include the T-nuts. The boots that needed those where the SB12X series which is now over 12 years old!

I think that the UPZ boots require the T-nuts too..

:-/

[utahcarver]

...the loose screw syndrome was how the tee nut fractures started for me. My theory is that the tee nuts deform slightly under pulling loads from the screws. The screw then feels loose so you tighten to take up slack and deform the tee nut a bit more. More riding, more pulling, more deformation, more tightening...eventually metal fatigue or strain causes the fracture to start.

If you take the sole plate out of the bottom of the boot and check the appearance of the tee nuts with a flashlight, you may be able to see the fractures starting. I didn't understand that was what I was seeing initially. It was only once I could see that the boot was flexing away from the heel when it was in the binding that I did a proper investigation. The attached photos show the condition in which I found the heel. You can see the shafts of the tee nuts still on the screws. The screws felt like they were tight because the tee nut shaft had travelled down until it was jammed on top of the cover plate on the heel.

The second shot is the hardware I used to fix the problem. New tee nuts (inserted after driving the remains of the old ones out of the boot shell), M4 x 25 screw (shoulder screws are not ideal because the head diameter is a little smaller than the standard screw), washer to compensate for shoulder screw head diameter, and nut. Last photo shows nuts installed over tee-nuts. Because the tee nut head is recessed, the hex nuts do not conflict with the foot plate of the boot.

So there's the paranoid way to deal with the problem.

C2:

Seeing the picture of your heel fix made me think: Is the tee-nut necessary with using a s/s bolt, washer, and nut? My guess is that it helps but, is not needed. I'm a day or two away from making your recommended upgrades to two pairs of boots. Please (and anyone else) let me know if I'd be making a terrible mistake by not using tee-nuts in addition to the M4 x 25 assembly.

Thanks much,

Mark

[tex1230]

I think that the UPZ boots require the T-nuts too..

:-/

+1000

http://www.bomberonline.com/VBulletin/showthread.php?t=21025&highlight=upz

for some reason I thought that was in the FAQ?

[utahcarver]

As an addendum to what I posted earlier, I should have indicated that the t-nut upgrades that I want to do are to Raichle 123's and 314's. I've noticed the intec heel assy pulling away from the boot shell when I flex the boot in the binding. Though disconcerting, I've never had a failure after having followed the directions for adding intec heels to Raichles.

My hope is that the t-nut upgrade and s/s bolt assembly will minimize the amount of seperation between the heel and the boot while riding.

Thanks again,

Mark

BTW, I may have some extra parts when I'm done if anyone would like to buy pre-assembled sets of M4x25 s/s screws, washers, and Nylock nuts. I had to buy in lots of 50 sets and I'm only using 16 sets.

[markp]

Thanks, I'm starting to rebuild mine next week.

[csquared]

...tweren't nothin.

Better safe though...