dshack Posted March 12, 2007 Report Share Posted March 12, 2007 Rotate your upper body into the turn and bring your trailing arm across your board .Your arm at the least should be in front of your body. I get the rotation into the turn on heelside; it seems like as long as you're keeping your shoulders and ass in the right place, you should rotate as much as possible. What about on toesides, though? Do you ever want to rotate past your binding angles (as in, more towards the center of your sidecut)? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cuban Carving Gooding Posted March 12, 2007 Report Share Posted March 12, 2007 I get the rotation into the turn on heelside; it seems like as long as you're keeping your shoulders and ass in the right place, you should rotate as much as possible. What about on toesides, though? Do you ever want to rotate past your binding angles (as in, more towards the center of your sidecut)? If you have the speed and want to draw out the turn yes rotate past your binding angles .I can still here Shred Gruumer yelling at me to look up the hill. The main thing is keeping your weight on the edge of the board. If you leave your trailing arm back behind your body it takes weight off your edge. In Hero snow you can get away with anything but when it gets like boiler plate you need good form.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cuban Carving Gooding Posted March 12, 2007 Report Share Posted March 12, 2007 Hugh, I dont know if im the best one to copy but im glad your having fun. I hit 7 springs PA and had A blast Saturday .Temp was 50+ sooo soft. Looks like my season is comming to an end. I will be back out to Tahoe next year. I'll stop by Kurkwood for some carving. Keep it low. Cuban Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr D Posted March 12, 2007 Report Share Posted March 12, 2007 I have been driving with my front knee on my soft setup at ridiculouslyhigh angles and it works great. It holds the edge in the snow. I haven't even paid attention to the back one so I just asssume it follows I guess??? anyhow I have had a hard time translating it to my hard boot technique in that I feel like I have no movemet in the boots that I worked so hard to get super stiff. I guess I will try softer tongues etc again. If my style keeps progressing faster than I can aquire appropriate gear I don't know what I am gonna do. I use cuban's hands idea and drive the front knee into the turn and it works well on softies with 50/45 and 55/50. Its very exagerated compared to the hard boots my knee moves twenty degrees at least from my toe. As long as I drive the knee I can lay over a beautiful set of linked turns down ed's run with snow scraping grace previously unheard of on softies. If I could only get my alpine setup to do the same thing I would be on to something:freak3: I gotta do the commit and trust thing next I guess:lurk: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cuban Carving Gooding Posted March 13, 2007 Report Share Posted March 13, 2007 Hi Dr D, Is driving your knees the same thing as cranking your board over on edge? It is A head game trust it crank it over even if you ride it out and stop.Get the feal for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr D Posted March 13, 2007 Report Share Posted March 13, 2007 Hi Dr D, Is driving your knees the same thing as cranking your board over on edge? It is A head game trust it crank it over even if you ride it out and stop.Get the feal for it. no two seperate concepts. I have no problem cranking it over on edge with the soft setup but the narrow boards and hard boots are another deal that I need to work on. the driving the knee thing is literally cranking the forward knee left on a regular heelside and right on a regular stance toeside. or rotating the knee counterclockwise away from the toe and toward the heel on a heelside (regular stance) and vice versa for the toeside. It really drives the edge in and makes it hold. the amount of pressure and how long you hold it determines the turn radius to some degree and certainly how far around the circle you go before releasing the edge. IT seems to go hand in hand with the hands thing you talk about. total edge control. It solves all the soft boot issues of chatter and loss of edge control etc. I just can't get the same feel on the hard boot setup. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ecnalubma Posted March 13, 2007 Report Share Posted March 13, 2007 ecnalubma,I saw Jay last year. He was working as a security guard at Mountain Creek. We actually rode together for a run or so. Last I heard he was out of the country this season. One of the old time ski school guys told me that. I was wondering if you and I ever rode together. I used to ride alot with Dennis, Rick and a guy named Shawn Orechio. In 1991, Shawn sold me two Hot Logicals asym. Before that I was on a Burton PJ, the pink and white one and I think before that it was a Look Lamar freestyle and a Kemper Rampage. Out of all those guys I still keep in touch with Dennis. He lives in Woodstock Vermont. I ride with him once a year up in Vermont. Believe it or not Dennis taught Jay how to ride in 1989. Before that he was a ski instructor. He definately came around quick to snowboarding. I will e-mail you later. I think I know Dennis, and I know who Shawn is but I was a bit younger than those guys, so I mostly just grommed around behind 'em. I rode a Kidwell ( highbacks cut off, with raichle flexons!) for a while, then I had one of Jays old burtons. Jay used to call me "young William" so people would remember not to buy me beers in the lodge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cuban Carving Gooding Posted March 13, 2007 Report Share Posted March 13, 2007 Dr D are your binding angles the same on both setups? If you have aggressive binding angles it is the same thing. Driving or steering your knee will angle the board over. And you will still need to get weight on the nose. A non aggressive stance steering your knee on A heal side will put weight or pressure on the nose of the board. In hard pack i'm all over the nose the Madds love it. On both heal and toe side. The Shred school of riding aggressive stance ,keep knees together,turn up hill and crank it over. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr D Posted March 13, 2007 Report Share Posted March 13, 2007 no I vary the angles depending on board width. I see your point on it being the same thing. isn't there a component involving dropping the hip or just getting your body laid over? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cuban Carving Gooding Posted March 14, 2007 Report Share Posted March 14, 2007 You can drop your hip and angle your upper body. Good style when the snow gets bumped up or any time you need to keep your hands off the snow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
floBoot Posted December 9, 2012 Report Share Posted December 9, 2012 (edited) "Drive your knees down", is the phrase I used to hear from my buddy Jay Westerveld. He used to race back in the late 80's and early 90's and would always be on me to drive my knees into my turns. Man does that phrase stick in my mind. Tonight I was riding and really drove those knees into each turn. What a great night I had. Ofcourse having the proper body mechanics helps but I always think, "Drive the knees". This phrase will probably stay with me forever. My one friend always concentrates on squaring his shoulders and feels he must always think that first in his head when he is riding. It's kind of weird but I do everything instinctively when riding but when I want to ride really hard and really round my turns I think "Drive the knees" and it works. I was just wondering what any one else thinks when riding? I have a mental block as far as visualisation for toe-side turns go. I am extremely new to carving with my third season of snowboarding almost under my belt, so not much of a base to work off either. However, I am determined:) This is what I do on softies, angles 30f 27b.c...any advice appreciated: -push-pull works well for controlling my speed -I try to remember to get low before turn is initiated and rotate upper body more out less at same time -the master/slave mentioned above works for me. I didn't realise I was doing this on my heel side carves until I read this but I also drive with my lead leg on toe side, maybe this explains the skidding out/losing edge much, much more than heel side? My heel side 'carve' has been really good (for me, not good like you Guys n gals:biggthump). Good as in I have confidence at speed that the edge will hold; I go through lumps and clumps of snow, maybe a bit of air but the heel edge holds;I can choose how long to carve for, it's intuitive to people getting in the way or unexpected ground conditions. I am most of the time on the board edge and not skidding. BUT: -how do I get nearer to the snow (besides falling..haha) -how can I unblock my mental block for visualising what I need to do on toe side -shall I continue to improve (get lower to the snow) on my heel side and then Pennies will drop for mental clarification on toe-side -should I make my binding angles steeper or will I lose control on a wider board.I really don't have the confidence to try this on my hard boot set-up. I don't believe I get onto any edge /down hill edge early enough although with my heel edge I don't know when I get there but with toe edge I have enough time to notice I'm still not on edge and I kind of have to force it! Anyway help is appreciated, this year I want to use as a year of drills and learning, no matter how many falls:) Edited December 9, 2012 by floBoot Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LambertoMI Posted December 9, 2012 Report Share Posted December 9, 2012 Hello Some my humble advise is as follows. Everyone has their own point of view so here is mine Getting closer to the snow- my best advise is get your back arm to reach forward. Healside reach over your body to the nose. Toeside reach between you and the snow towards the nose. I found this helps me to square off my shoulders and not over commit to turn that I cannot exit from visualising- it's all about feeling it. Once you execute pay attention as you must "use the force" and feel the turn. This will help you commit to a great turn toeside and heelside are kind of unique in the way that you have to think differently about each one. But confidence will help both turns improve binding angles- Are talked about a lot. Not a set rule. You have too go with what feels right. So experiment. Increase and decrease your angles and proportions of front and back. This will have to feel right for you. I ride 70 degrees and most guys would think that's nuts. On my wider soft board I run about 50 to avoid binding drag The best advise I can give is this. The board has a turn sidecut radius. Get some medium speed and then lean into the turn and let the geometry work for you. I used to pull my boards into turns and spent many years washing out the tail. Learn each boards geometry and how you can ride it. Once you understand how the board likes to turn, then you can start to push it harder sharper and more on edge. The more on edge the closer you are to the snow. As many will tell you here do not reach for the snow. Try to keep your body straight and lean it over like a motorcycle on winding turns Good luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
floBoot Posted December 10, 2012 Report Share Posted December 10, 2012 LambertoMI Your experience and advice appreciated. I think moving my arms forward as you said will help. I am only adding one or two new things at a time, so trying to lean more into turn as well. I'm not quite sure what I read recently that enabled me to experience my first possible g-force type turn last week end... See if I can replicate... Fyi my aim is to extreme-carve...I post on that site too...I also find interesting the current styles of carving... Anyway, what's the waist of your soft board, such that you can do angles of 50..perhaps I'll increase my angles too...:) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
softbootsurfer Posted December 10, 2012 Report Share Posted December 10, 2012 when Driving I use my Eyes to anticipate where my Hands need to move to turn...once my hands move my weight into position my knees take over or my feet take over and finish the power in that turn while the eyes focus on where we are going next...there are some great vids. in the Minds in the Water thread that show what Anticipation means and how the Hands lead the way... :) my experiences of Skating, Surfing, Skiing and Snowboarding throughout my life has for me, shown this to be the case... I believe the equipment and how it is set up is to support this theory :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack M Posted December 10, 2012 Report Share Posted December 10, 2012 The eyes lead the way. Nothing helps a heelside more than looking over your shoulder into the turn before you make the turn. Pulling your rear hand forward is a good quick fix to get a novice or intermediate carver out of the habit of "sitting on the toilet" on heelside, but once a certain level of mastery is achieved, the hands can relax, and you don't have to twist towards the nose. Just face your binding angles. The problem is most novices/intermediates think they are facing their binding angles but really they are facing the toeside edge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lafcadio Posted December 10, 2012 Report Share Posted December 10, 2012 (edited) The eyes lead the way. Nothing helps a heelside more than looking over your shoulder into the turn before you make the turn. Pulling your rear hand forward is a good quick fix to get a novice or intermediate carver out of the habit of "sitting on the toilet" on heelside, but once a certain level of mastery is achieved, the hands can relax, and you don't have to twist towards the nose. Just face your binding angles. The problem is most novices/intermediates think they are facing their binding angles but really they are facing the toeside edge. +1! Also consider the "Look ma, no hands" drill from here: http://www.bomberonline.com/resources/Techarticles/practice_drills.html For the past two seasons I struggled shamelessly with the "toilet butt" syndrome to various degrees. I tried everything (grabbing my boot cuff, etc.), but could not get my hips turned in or my hips and shoulders aligned at all on heelside. Even when my heelside turns felt strong, I was shocked at some of the pictures and video of me. :p Two weeks ago, I was practicing the No Hands drill focusing on keeping my arms stationary resting my hands on my thighs. After a couple of runs I was amazed at how much more stable I felt and without even thinking about my hips or shoulders... POW! Everything aligned and fell into place. It was the first time I experienced a really solid, well balanced, powerful heelside turn. That was also the first time I successfully carved my downhill edge on toe to heel transition. Don't neglect those practice drills. I always go back to them for warmups, especially at the beginning of the season. Next up for me is to figure out how to use my ankles more while carving. Edited December 10, 2012 by lafcadio Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
floBoot Posted December 12, 2012 Report Share Posted December 12, 2012 (edited) okay, I've had a good read and I am pleased to say that I have a clear mental picture of how and when to get onto the down hill edge...including the toe side which before, I couldn't visualise...:) Believe it or not I have read this stuff before(joining this site) but I just didn't have enough experience to understand... What I shall take to the slopes with me, to practice is: -Square shoulders to nose of board with hands on thighs or bend knees to be able to touch boot cuff (see what works best) -just get on the downhill edge...I have one of the pics imprinted in my mind..so I know when -look at next direction of travel before switching edge -I'll try to remember the pencil at the waist-ma no hands:p but I can only do two perhaps 3 things at a time:rolleyes: I am really looking forward to practising, so thank you for tips and pointing me in the right direction:biggthump Edited December 12, 2012 by floBoot Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lafcadio Posted December 12, 2012 Report Share Posted December 12, 2012 Believe it or not I have read this stuff before(joining this site) but I just didn't have enough experience to understand... Believe it! Been there, done that. I went through all the material when I first started carving, but probably only understood about 10% of it. After some experience, rereading those tech articles made way more sense. Now, I probably get at least 50%! :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erik J Posted December 12, 2012 Report Share Posted December 12, 2012 Mental focus is key. Imagine that every skidded turn means a kitten dies and every carved turn buys a puppy a rainbow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
floBoot Posted December 12, 2012 Report Share Posted December 12, 2012 Glad I'm not the only one to have felt utterly overwhelmed by the information on this site...it really is a giant leap that i've understood some... ..tell you what I find baffling, is all the talk about PLATES?..:o I watched the Sean at Donek? Video several times re what different side cuts are for and I found that very helpful, and to be honest I don't have a clue what my alpine board is cut for but I know it's not a GS..that's a start...Rome was not built in a day... I was sharing the slope with a hare last week end, I'll be going for rainbows then...I'm still visualising my drills...;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Gilmour Posted December 12, 2012 Report Share Posted December 12, 2012 I personally work a variation of driving the knees that I picked up from a euro hardboot racer a few years back at whistler.Heelside: drive hard with lead leg/knee (master) first then back leg (slave) Toeside: drive hard with back leg/knee (master) first then front leg (slave) The acual time gap of which drives first is probably microseconds , but for whatever it matters it works for me, the separation of which leg drives first really helped me on my toeside not to mention proper body mechanics to get my inclination/angulation/shock absorption sorted. I have a theory on why this might work, lead knee driving first on heelside helps get board up on edge and driving down , (going back leg first just gets you into a locked at the knees "tripod" position), following in with trailing knee just adds to edge pressure, trailing knee driving in hard first on the toeside accomplishes much the same effect with lead knee again slaving in to help out. Technique helps keep zee knees separated. Before the flaming lights up this is WHAT WORKS FOR ME in my mental visualization for driving the knees in, use whatever visualization/imagery works for you Dave* WTF ! I just made a long post and it signed me out again. Lost it all. Too bad because it explained a lot. Oh well info and time down the drain..I'm not typing that again. Other forums have an auto save feature ..or you can go back a page and see what you wrote... here it just loses the info. When this happens to me I give up on this forum and go post on other topics like car audio instead. See you guys next month.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fin Posted December 13, 2012 Report Share Posted December 13, 2012 John, Actually, this forum has an "autosave" function. As you are writing you will see a small yellow "tag" appear in the bottom right corner of the text box you are entering into saying "Auto Saved". This is automatically saving your content as you write it. Now something happens and you lose it, just go back to that say thread, hit respond, and in the text box you will see a button at the bottom called "Restore Auto Saved Content". Hit that, text pops back on. As I understand it, it (the forum software) holds it indefinitely, even if you turn off the computer. I have tested it quite a bit, works great! Go back to this thread, hit respond, and maybe it is still there. But since you responded already, you might have lost it again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Gilmour Posted December 13, 2012 Report Share Posted December 13, 2012 (edited) John,Actually, this forum has an "autosave" function. As you are writing you will see a small yellow "tag" appear in the bottom right corner of the text box you are entering into saying "Auto Saved". This is automatically saving your content as you write it. Now something happens and you lose it, just go back to that say thread, hit respond, and in the text box you will see a button at the bottom called "Restore Auto Saved Content". Hit that, text pops back on. As I understand it, it (the forum software) holds it indefinitely, even if you turn off the computer. I have tested it quite a bit, works great! Go back to this thread, hit respond, and maybe it is still there. But since you responded already, you might have lost it again. odd I dont see the yellow tag. If I do a mistake quick... I get the box on the left hand lower corner,,,and I have used it before... but once it signs me out.. the box never appears again. using Safari Mac os 10.6.8. What happens is I get signed out after I sign in. Without knowing I was signed out ...since I did not sign myself out. Then when I hit "post" it asks me to sign in again. if my post is short this does not happen. I think there is a time out feature. You would think after 10 years of posting stuff I would save first... but sometimes I don't ..and arrrrgh. and... if I get signed out... that restore saved content button never appears. if I make a quick mistake it does..but if I type, take a short phone call... and continue.. it loses everything. Edited December 13, 2012 by John Gilmour Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fin Posted December 13, 2012 Report Share Posted December 13, 2012 Mac? You're screwed.....:rolleyes: Honestly, if I know I am going to write a big response, I do it elsewhere and then copy and paste into this forum. WAY too risky to hope my browser, my internet connection, and the internet itself will all work as planned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flywalker Posted December 15, 2012 Report Share Posted December 15, 2012 (edited) Heelside: drive hard with lead leg/knee (master) first then back leg (slave)Toeside: drive hard with back leg/knee (master) first then front leg (slave) Considering one's front leg heel and rear leg toe are closest to the narrowest point of the board this makes perfect sense. Edited December 16, 2012 by Flywalker Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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