tswei Posted January 9, 2007 Report Share Posted January 9, 2007 I am pleased to report that it is quite simple to change the flex of the Head Stratos without having to do major surgery on the shell or install springs. Simply change the liner. I was looking to soften the stock feel a bit as I find it a softer boot makes it easier to feel the board edges and initiate turns. I got a pair of Arnaud's springs last season but I was intimidated of cutting away plastic. So I bought the "NT Thermoflex Liner" from BOL. Fit them myself w/ no probs. Had them out today and it has softened the boot about 25% or so. Now it is a perfect freecarve boot and a custom fitted liner. I also tried my custom foam injection molded liners that I had made for my old pair of Stratos boots (the softer model which is no longer sold in the US, blue in color) which are much stiffer than the stock liner. These made the boots about 30% stiffer than the stock liner. So if you really want to fine tune your boot stiffness for the conditions/board you are riding, different liners can make quite an impact. Sure beats carrying several pairs of boots around. And BTW, I also upgraded the stock powerstrap to a Booster strap. The stock one doesn't deserve to be on the boot and should be thrown away. Waaay more adjustablity of the top cuff area and a more progressive feel. Carve on. ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dshack Posted January 9, 2007 Report Share Posted January 9, 2007 Has anyone tried thermo or other race liners in normal snowboard boots? I realize you couldn't just swap them around because they mold to the inside of the boot, but what about a pair of thermos (or standard raichles) for the softies? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jnshapiro Posted January 9, 2007 Report Share Posted January 9, 2007 Has anyone tried thermo or other race liners in normal snowboard boots? I realize you couldn't just swap them around because they mold to the inside of the boot, but what about a pair of thermos (or standard raichles) for the softies? "Normal" snowboard boots? Hardshell boots are normal! Or do you mean softies? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-Sub Posted January 9, 2007 Report Share Posted January 9, 2007 dshack many of the modern softboot companies provide moldable liners. ThirtyTwo uses intuition, and deeluxe have their own tongued moldable that comes in their softboots I have the deeluxe liners in my burton rulers. Got em used from some old deeluxe boots. they are available new here, or used on ebay Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
felix Posted January 9, 2007 Report Share Posted January 9, 2007 Hehe- don't talk the myth. Ebay Prices will rise if all softies throw away their trashy inners. (during the last days Thermos went sometimes for 15€ on german ebay including the Raichle X2X boots). On the other hand ski innerboots with plastic tongues make great Raichle innerboots and bring back volume. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr D Posted January 10, 2007 Report Share Posted January 10, 2007 Has anyone tried thermo or other race liners in normal snowboard boots? I realize you couldn't just swap them around because they mold to the inside of the boot, but what about a pair of thermos (or standard raichles) for the softies? The thermo liners found in many softies are rather thin and quite comfortable. I have actually tried an intuition liner that I found in a pair of garmont hard boots in my vans step ins with some success. if the boot is big enough to allow for the thicker liner you get a significantly stiffer ride. they are easily twice as thick as the stock liners though so you might have to pick up a bigger softie shell to make it work.:rolleyes: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lonerider Posted March 16, 2008 Report Share Posted March 16, 2008 I am pleased to report that it is quite simple to change the flex of the Head Stratos without having to do major surgery on the shell or install springs. Simply change the liner. Did anyone on this side of the ocean, actually do the boot surgery to their Head Stratos Pros to make them softer? I just replaced the spring mechanism with the BTS and I'm going to ride it first before I start cutting... but thought I should start seeing what everyone else has been doing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big canuck Posted March 16, 2008 Report Share Posted March 16, 2008 BTS (blue springs), Conform'able heat molded liners and foot beds. Booster strap. Punched by boot fitter. Intec. = Bliss. No cutting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
queequeg Posted March 17, 2008 Report Share Posted March 17, 2008 This post applies more to people with the BTS, and people who want a boot that has a more springy flex that comes from the BTS. So it is a tiny bit OT, but I figured someone might find it useful. A few of the people I was riding with at ECES thought my boots were too stiff for me and I was not in disagreement. Some people were helping me out with my carving (thanks Bobby! thanks Ron!) and they all thought the boots were too stiff for me. At the time I was riding the Stratos with a Deeluxe HPD liner and the blue BTS springs. My problems were like this: The boot was way too stiff, and was preventing me from riding naturally, and was an impediment to bending my knees and ankles enough to maintain a proper stance. I could bend it down far enough but it required a lot of effort (and eventually, shin-pain). The boot resistance was not smooth and spring like - the BTS was out of play, because of the boot-shell resistance. I had to press so hard against the cuff to bend it down, that not only was my shin bruised, so was my heel from being pushed against the rear of the boot against my leverage on the shin. Ouch. Additionally, the Deeluxe HPD "speed" liner is too thin and soft, and became painful. on the shin and on the heel. The first thing I did when I came home from ECES to take some shears to the inside of my heads. There are two "wings" that extend into the rear of the HSP's cuff that are the cause of much of the HSP's forward-flex stiffness. As you flex the boot cuff forward, these wings squeeze together and create progressively tight stiffness. There is also a lot of friction between them and the cuff. I cut those off, and the difference was night and day. Do it--Seriously. It may seem scary to take a pair of shears to your $500+ boots ... but goddamn does this make a difference. If you've got those wings in there, you might as well not even have a BTS on your heads. Seriously - The difference is that big. I can still make the boot super stiff if I want to (I don't) by tightening up the BTS or using stiffer springs, but I can also make the boot soft and springy, now that the plastic is not interfering with the natural behavior of the BTS. What you end up with when you do this is a boot that is laterally stiff, and flexible fore and aft. You can see examples of the wings, and how to cut them in this thread. http://www.bomberonline.com/VBulletin/showthread.php?t=6008&highlight=arnaud I also changed my liners, since those HPD liners were killing me. I called up the starting gate and told them my situation. They sent me a pair of Dalbello "Gold" Thermo liners: http://www.dalbello.it/technologies/id-thermo.html These are much stiffer and beefier than the HPD, to say the least. I had to use eliminator shin pads with the HPD - and had to remove them with the Dalbello. I moulded those in my oven (since I can't easily get to the starting gate) using yyzcanuck's instructions. The dalbello liners definitely added some stiffness to the boots, but the fit was vastly improved over the HPD liner, the boot fit firmly everywhere with no pressure points, and the heel hold-down was much better. I switched from the blue springs to the yellow to compensate for the added stiffness of the dalbello liner. Rode that setup yesterday, at windham here in NY. With the wings removed and the yellow spring, I was able to relax in the boots much more and was able to flex my knees and ankles easily without pain, but still press hard against my board. I felt like I was controlling the boots, and not the other way around. The dalbello liner was also a huge plus, I was much more comfortable and my heel was firmly in place. I wish I had done this at the beginning of the season. I feel like I finally have a boot that I can stop messing with. My 2 C. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cail Posted March 17, 2008 Report Share Posted March 17, 2008 queequeg, i have the same problem with mine, mainly my rear boot. my shin is bruised and in pain at the end of the day. i have the BTS sitting around, so i'll install that and also do some cutting. thanks for the post! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pokolikrat Posted March 17, 2008 Report Share Posted March 17, 2008 My observations. I am using Head boots since they put them on market. I am currently on 4th pair. Last week one of my boots cracked at heel groove and I just bought replacement. Check your boots for cracks on regular base! One of the simplest things to do is change original spring in forward lean mechanism for softer one. Use softer tongue or grind or groove tongue to make is softer. Another improvement described Arnauld couple years ago. It can be found on this forum. It consists of cutting plastic lips inside the boots, also check for plastic burrs (overflow from molding Process). Used BTS with much softer springs than standard ones from Bomber. Also use smaller diameter springs in first version of BTS to pervert drag between spring and BTS housing. Thermo liners play big role in overall boot stiffness. Raichle liners make boots very comfortable and softer on the contrary Intuition liners make boot so stiff that I found boots non ride able. I will have to grind off all plastic from these liners and hope I will be able to use them. They were pretty pricey $260. I have brand new original Head liner size 26.0 which I can give somebody for six pack of good beer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arnaud Posted March 18, 2008 Report Share Posted March 18, 2008 Glad to see that more and more peoples like softer boots :D See here the latest improvment : http://www.extremecarving.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1034&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=279 Initial post is in french but an english translation is added in italic. With the pictures, all should be clear. I can insure these modifications are just ... wonderful It's much more easy and relaxing to carve in every conditions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lonerider Posted March 18, 2008 Report Share Posted March 18, 2008 Do I have to remove the outer cuff to do this modification? What tool did you use to cut the plastic? Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arnaud Posted March 18, 2008 Report Share Posted March 18, 2008 Cutting can be done with a good cutter (be careful to avoid injury). Making the latest modifications described above, it's easy to cut because all plastic parts are unmounted and accessible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
queequeg Posted March 18, 2008 Report Share Posted March 18, 2008 Do I have to remove the outer cuff to do this modification? What tool did you use to cut the plastic?Thanks You don't need to remove the outer cuff to cut the "wings" off ... but it helps to remove the tongue, liner (duh!) and the top buckle. I did it with a very sharp pair of heavy-duty shears (scissors). Took about 3 minutes for each side of each boot. Remeber, you can always cut more off, but once you cut, you cant add. I ended up cutting off most of the rear section and you probably will too, but try removing a little at a time just to make sure you are happy with the results. Be patient and accurate. I have been thinking of doing some sanding as arnaud described in his post this morning, but I am going to use a dremel tool and a wedge (to shove the innerboot away from the cuff) and avoid having to drill the rivet ... it suuuure is annoying that they riveted the medial side of the boot together, but I'm sure they had their reasons ... Arnaud - thanks so much for posting this stuff, if I hadn't seen your earlier I may have had to give up on these boots. I'm pretty happy with them now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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