Jack M

Maybe the stiffness ratings are not comparable. I am running the stiffest tongues in my UPZs, which others have reported are similar to the Mountain Slope .951WC, which are rated at 120 stiffness. A few years ago I tried using Salomon ski boots rated at 130. I couldn't even snowboard in them, let alone carve. I felt like my feet and legs were encased in concrete. And yes my bindings were set up properly. Some riders here have had good luck with Full Tilt ski boots, which are basically Raichle Flexons. Like you say I think the design of the boot and spring system if applicable has a lot to do with it. I would wager your experience is not typical, based on the number of people I've taught and helped. Which is fine, different people do things differently, like people who skateboard mongo. My nephew's friend is a good softboot carver. He finally tried my nephew's UPZs and Kessler 156 a few weeks ago and took right off without a shred of advice. It only makes sense that experiencing a sensation (carving) on familiar equipment will make it easier to reproduce on unfamiliar equipment.

Welcome! Really the first step before buying anything is to make sure you are actually carving your current softboot gear. Can you carve the downhill edge? Can you do The Norm? If the answer is yes then you'll have a much easier time with hardboots.

The K168 finishes turns bigtime. It really is their magic freecarver. It's my go-to board for ice or crowds. By itself it's awesome. Add a plate and it goes to 11. I haven't ridden a pure SL 162, but the 168 is nothing at all like my 180, which definitely seems like it has a longer radius in the tail than the nose. I believe the KST theory is that due to the tighter radii towards the ends of the board, and the decambered tip and tail, when you let the board run longer, you're not tilting it up as much and not engaging the tighter sidecut at the ends of the board. This makes the board very easy and agreeable to coast and surf. During aggressive carving you tilt the board up higher, and engage the ends of the board. The tighter radii there bend the board, but the longer radius in the middle prevents the board from kinking, as single radius boards can do. The clothoid shape of the sidecut, a.k.a. Euler spiral, is a continuous curve. I feel this works significantly better than simply joining 2 or 3 radii together. First run on mine last year I could feel that it was different and better than any sidecut I'd ridden before. It's like it has the comfort of a long board with the turn size of a short board when you want it. I'm a believer. http://www.kessler-swiss.com/en-US/technology/kesslerShapeTechnology Sorry for the thread-jack Shred! Thirst has certainly earned an impressive reputation in a relatively short amount of time. Thanks for the details of the purchase experience, sounds great. I'm glad we have another builder to choose from on this continent!

I measured my K168. Indeed the radius is longest around the waist. In fact, there is about a 10cm span around the waist where the width of the board is a constant 202mm. So the radius goes much longer (infinitely longer) than 12m in the center of the board. The published 8-12 is merely an approximated representation. All that said, 8-12m feels about right, and your statements above are consistent with my experience. It is simply the most unique and effective sidecut I've ever tried. Try a K168 and an MK first.

"toilet bowl" under construction. The indentation on the other side which I presume to be the location of the tunnel is all wrong. Thank you so much. Actually I had that offer from Tim, who has a bazillion miles from work flights, but it just doesn't make sense this year. Maybe when I reach the 50+ Grand Poobah age group.

Just not in the budget this year with daughter at CVA. Also the Sugarloaf Banked Slalom is this weekend and I have to defend my 40-49 age group title. Good luck to all!!

Love it. You should really try my Kessler 168. For my taste/style/location, it is the holy grail. My quest for the perfect short board is at an end.

I don't think anybody denies that skis are superior for ultimate speed and edge hold. A significant number of people leave our sport for exactly that reason. However there is just something special about standing somewhat sideways and having both feet on one board. Some people are simply meant to do it, some are meant not to. I see very very few skiers who can carve similarly. Snowboarding overall is indeed in decline because skiing is cool again and it is easier for little kids to learn it. Years ago snowboarding enjoyed a population boom because it was the hot new fad and skiing was not. Now the only kids who come to snowboarding are the ones who see the surf and want to catch our waves.

The whole King Pine area is usually not good for carving because they groom it last and it never has time to set up. It's almost always loose.

@dhamann‘s turn now!

Was this it?

I hope you saw the wink, I did not mean any harm. I only meant that hardboots still have their place - steep trails like upper Flume at Loon where you ride, ridden at high speed (like "Mr. John Deere", an ex-racer who rides there). And I meant it in good fun. I have been enjoying softboot carving and all-mtn riding lately as well. Sorry for any confusion! Agreed, which is why we do not segregate softboot and hardboot carving into separate forums, as has been proposed.

All mountain hardbooting is powder, trees, backcountry, sidecountry, spring, descending Tower 3 at Jackson Hole, that sort of stuff. Obviously not the same as carving groomers. @workshop7, take those sb's down Flume or Walking Boss, try to keep up with @MR. JOHN DEERE ! and get back to us.

Pic was taken this fine Monday morning. Four pack yesterday was Geoff, @AlexJ, @trailertrash, and myself. Were you there?? We are gone though, back to our desk jobs. Big thaw on Friday followed by a freeze. Saturday was pretty bad. Sunday was ok, plates helped. Today was surprisingly good but still firm. US Alpine Championships speed events are here, I heard a chair of female racers say "dope turns" Weather was spectacular. @David Kirk, good job representing!

@GeoffV made the Sugarloaf Facebook page today!

This is a great board. Very fun to ride. Only reason I sold it was I heard a rumor that Bruce was retiring so I wanted to get one last Coiler. Fortunately that didn't come true!

All, Please welcome David Redman, @dredman, who has joined our Moderator staff! David is a 12 year veteran of the forum and as you may know recently organized the very successful Montucky Clear Cut carve session at Turner Mtn, Montana. This event brought carvers from all over to enjoy a private carvers-only mountain, and raised over $21,000 for the Kootenai Wintersports Ski Education Foundation. Here he is inspecting the groom. Thank you David!! David is replacing @Mellow Yellow, who graciously stepped up and volunteered to help during the transition from BomberOnline last year, but regrettably simply can't be online enough. Thank you Mellow!

Yup, there have been several of those over the years. Organizing one properly is not an insignificant task. We have a section for these gatherings here: http://forums.alpinesnowboarder.com/forum/78-carve-sessions/

Cool. I'd be into that. Where to buy??

Kessler 180 here, send me a PM.

Been wanting to take this pic for years. There are only a couple spots that offer this view, and they all involve a hike and some bushwhacking. Took me a while to find it. It also requires sacrificing a perfect-10 morning of prime season carving. Worth it though, gonna make a 3’x6’ triptych for the condo. 5-shot pano, 5D4, 100-400L at 240mm

Yes, it went out right after the transition last spring. If you’re opted out of receiving forum emails you didn’t get it. Or it may have gone into your spam folder.

Because many people simply refuse to use hardboots for whatever reason. Including all these impressive Asian softboot carvers. Surely they are aware hardboots exist. They simply don't want to go there. Also 3 strap bindings are still not nearly as limiting for other types of riding. If there was (and maybe there is) simply a stiff softboot binding like the Now O-Drive but with a locking highback that could accept a booster strap, that would be a good approach for these people. Take the booster straps off and stuff them in your pocket if you want. That woman is an expert slarver... but there's not a lot of actual edge-locked-in carving in that video. And the conditions look hero. Powerride - I'm not finding it... I am not knowing...

That system has very long sole length. I'd need like a 26cm wide board to ride a 60 degree stance. Edit - oh I see what you mean - create something similar for use on snowboards. I still think that would be pretty long. Also what about making a good ol' 3 strap binding like there used to be? Only updated and better? Maybe there is finally a market for one again. I've been toying with the idea of adding Booster Straps to the tops of my Now O-drives, but the highback doesn't lock down and I'd be concerned about breaking them. I've updated the window title of alpinesnowboarder.com to include the phrase hardboot snowboarding. Should help with search engine optimization.

Actually we don't have to do much moderating at all. This is a compliment to our members! I've been wanting to do this literally since day 1, but I have a profound lack of willing and capable cinematographers near me. As for the video above of the young Asian woman in softboots.... beautiful control, but why doesn't she engage the edge more? She should be leaving serious ruts in that trail but there are none.