Jack M

Nonsense. Any quality alpine board can be used for any style of carving. At 6'2" you should be at 20" easy, or more. Figure out a way to get some toe lift on your front binding and heel lift on your back binding. You may have to get creative with some wood and longer hardware, but it will make a wider stance feel comfortable. And your carving will benefit immensely. I hope you told them how much you weigh. Anyway, congrats and enjoy!

Great stuff Randy! Hopefully the kid's stuff you traded with me has some Alpine mojo in it that will rub off on my kids! Starting my 3.5yo son on skis this year!

needanswer - I think this is the first time I have ever said this: Just go ride. Philfells' comment (quoted at the bottom of Phil's post) sums up my attitude about rotation quite nicely. Don't worry about this rotation/counterrotation stuff for now. You said yourself that you're a beginner carver. This is really heady stuff you shouldn't be worrying about for probably a few years. For now I think your goals should be consistently being able to change edges with the board pointing across the fall-line and starting your next carve on the downhill edge. After you can do that, try to master cross-over, cross-under, and cross-through techniques. I predict once you do that, you'll find you won't even need to revisit this subject. Above all, have fun.

Don, go run that by Beckman and let us know how you make out.

you can extrapolate from here: http://www.bomberonline.com/VBulletin/showthread.php?t=8680 1688 BOL members in the US....?

I think it would work great. You won't be disappointed.

The EC guys use a board with a 13m sidecut radius, which is what the 181 has, so it should be perfect. However GS racers use 14 to 16m sidecuts (I believe most ride 15m), so a 13 is not going to carve super wide turns. I've ridden the Prior 181 and it's a spectacular board, very versatile.

If you like that, try Spaten Optimator - one of my fav's from Germany.

Holy cow! How much play are we talking about? Your boot must be able to roll side to side in the binding, yes? Are you saying the standard bails <i>without</i> the suspension kit are less stiff than step-ins <i>with</i> the suspension kit? I can't imagine that.

I had him down for Bartles & Jaymes, and umbrella drinks.

My boots are 28.5, and I would surely have overhang at 58 degrees on a 184mm wide board. I would have to be at about 66 degrees. The bail wire itself was never a problem for me. Perhaps where I ride (eastern US - "ice coast") the board does not sink into the snow as much. The binding angle in that picture is about 66 (can't say exactly to the degree with Bombers). That's a 185mm wide board.

I've just skimmed this last page and I have a couple brief comments: - I've never measured it, but I feel like I can get my board up higher than 58 or 64 degrees. - Don't forget that the board sinks into the snow by some amount. - When I used to use standard bindings, I would put the toes and heels of the BOOTS as close as possible to the edge without hanging over when viewed from the bird's-eye POV, and I didn't have a problem with the bail. This may be due to the fact that I use higher binding angles than the EC guys - anywhere from 62 to 66 degrees depending on the board width. This put the toe lever mostly out of the way - really only the bail wire would be sticking out past the edge. Again, not a problem, and I assure you I can tilt the board up high. - To those who say the step-in system is too stiff - this is not an issue any more. You can get soft or extra soft e-rings, and if that isn't enough, you can get the new super gooey <a href="http://bomberonline.com//store/accessories/suspension_kit.cfm">suspension kit</a>. And look at the toe clearance: (yes, there is a binding in the picture!)

congrats! welcome to the dark side!

Well, maybe not the 164. Maybe the Prior ATV 161? That would put some more edge on the ground and still be shorter. However the Prior is pricier. 157 to 160 isn't a very significant increase, and you said you're jonsing for a longer board. Edit: I've never ridden an Incline - Mike T probably has better advice here.

I've seen a guy at Sugarloaf rail some really nice carves on one. Of course, nothing better than what we can do, but very nice. He didn't seem to be able to hold an edge as well as we can though - unless conditions were buff, he wasn't carving. He was a real trip to watch because at first glance he looked like another one of us, but he was using ski poles. I'm all for more toys on the slopes, and anything that encourages carving, but I've never tried one because I don't think they could possibly be any better than an alpine board and "proper" boots/bindings.

The better a carver you are *before* you make the transition to hardboots, the easier and more fun it will be to switch to hardboots. Go for the 164 if you can. And then when you do switch to hardboots, you'll still have a great softboot board to use when you want. Also, there's some advice on getting into alpine snowboarding here in our Welcome Center.

keep the wider stance width, add some toe lift to the front foot and some heel lift to the back foot.

I think John Gilmour has tried one...

Jasey gave an interview and was holding his board next to him. The Coiler logo was smack in the middle of the TV - I almost ran to grab my camera! I'm not sure there's any blame to be assigned for the crash. The whole coverage was definitely very cool to watch. Kevin Delaney is always good for a hardboot plug or three, and he wasted no opportunity to point out the advantage of hardboots over softboots for speed events.

he already did - check out the TD2 suspension kit.

Heh, well, I'd love to see it for myself. I hope someday they can make it to the ECES. I do believe, however, that their heelsides are stronger than their toesides, no matter what the conditions.

Are we reading it the same way? It's a little ambiguous, but I believe I agree with it. He seems to be saying that good carvers hands touch the ground as a side-effect of good technique - they can carve low enough that the ground just happens to be right there. Bad carvers REACH DOWN for the ground when they shouldn't, when the rest of their body is not close to the ground. So, an instructor who says "those guys have bad technique because they reach for the snow" may or may not be clueless. If the rider is in fact reaching down for the snow, well, the instructor is not clueless. NB - I did NOT just call Jacques Rilliet a bad carver. He has his own style that works very well for himself. I admire his EC carves, and all his videos. I just personally don't think it's a good model for a <i>new</i> carver.

Huh?? Look: At the beginning of the carve he rotates his upper body to face the toeside edge. Then he bends at the waist, reaches for the snow, and is mostly facing the toeside edge for the duration of the carve. This wouldn't fly on ice. This is also why the EC guys generally have stronger heelsides than toesides.

Check out our Welcome Center, and this article on binding setup

For now. I give them 20-30 years. By then the first generation snowboarders will be into their 60s, and I'll bet most of them will still be boarding. If snowboarding holds a majority among current teens and 20-somethings, in 20-30 years the skier-only resorts will starve. But the guy in Utah is kidding himself. MRG will be the last.