SunSurfer

Traffic paint will get you very time, even more so if it's at all wet! Ask any road motorcyclist! SunSurfer

Use purpose built new inserts, pre-PTex'd available as below. Follow the quote above for more details and a picture of these inserts in use by a World Cup racer. I've sourced some from a company called Worden in France. The link from Tufty (a couple above my quoted post) to the inserts page on their site works. I used a 16mm bit to cut the base hole, a 16mm countersink to accomodate the taper, and a 9mm bit from above.

Don't know if your original Australian buyer might be keen again if DHL can come close to matching the price they give Sean Martin (Donek) to ship his new boards to Australia. SunSurfer

Information on the strength of the various SS fasteners / axle rod etc can be found here. http://www.anzor.co.nz/?T=30 a kilo Newton (kN) is approx. a 100kg (225lb) load. SunSurfer

Homebuilt too many years ago from laminated marine plywood, Dynel sheathing cloth and epoxy. Trucks are 1977 vintage Trackers with Road Rider 4s. Deck grip is wet & dry sandpaper 60 grade available form your local hardware store. SunSurfer

Thanks for that Sean. I had wondered about how the plate would cope with the loads on the mounting bolts. I had been considering metal inserts in the plate to spread the loads at those points. You have made a very cogent case for reinforcement and load spreading. SunSurfer

http://www.anzor.co.nz/?T=173 Countersunk head barrel nut courtesy of my local stainless steel fittings supplier site. The top of the rideable plate has had another layer of sheathing cloth and epoxy applied which went on after the countersink holes were drilled. I figure the major load on the axle is compression as the G level rises in the turn. There the axle is squeezed between the plastic and the the grooved stainless clamp base. The groove in the clamp base has been filed so that force is applied across the whole width of the base. As supplied, the groove is slightly lower in the middle compared with either end. If you tighten up the U-bolt too tight you can bend the axle unless you make this mod. Front axle moves in its' slot in the event of a sudden decelleration, while the rear axle is compressed along the whole rear side of its' slot. The slots have been cut so that the axle is supported on all sides as much as possible. I could have used a semicircular tipped router bit instead of a square for the rear slot, but I'm not sure that that is actually necessary. All that being said, the design principles could be fairly easily upsized by use of - a thicker UHMWPE plastic block (current is 1cm) a thicker axle a different size clamp, and there are a wide range of sizes available. stainless steel plate on the top of the plastic block to reduce the overall height of the base block. As the title says, this thread is a "chronicle", and I continue to make adjustments and changes to the design, so that what you see here is a step or two behind the current state. I get to actually ride this in early August. Although the snow is falling here and the ski season has begun, my day job prevents me getting up there just yet. I have the rideable version mounted on my oldest carving board in my garage, and I am itching to get up there and try it!! Just as before, I have no commercial interest in this design process. This is an Open Source design and others are welcome to use it as they wish, and at their own risk. I understand that Donek & Bomber are commercial entities, and that Sean and Fin make their living out of what they design, build, and most importantly sell. There are also other people participating on the board who are working in this area, and making plate product for sale on a smaller scale. SunSurfer

New insert pattern and rear unit shown below. Here the 5mm deep axle slot is also only 5mm wide. The front unit slot is 10mm wide. It could be made wider within the limits of the UHMWPE block but it is not necessary to have more than 5mm fore/aft slide movement. SunSurfer

Pisst Plate have given us the low down on theirs. http://www.bomberonline.com/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=308840&postcount=11 Donek - Sean Martin has kind of shown his in the video. <object width="640" height="385"> <embed src="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H_M2k9PvFQk&hl=en_US&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="640" height="385"></object> Bomber plate mechanism is still under a carbon "shroud". How else can you do this? <object width="480" height="385"> <embed src="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UD0PQZvBr2Q&hl=en_US&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></object> The photos below show the hinge/slide mechanism from my Mk 2 front unit. The UHMWPE block has a 5mm deep, "dumbbell" shape, routered, cutout to accommodate the 5mm stainless steel axle, and the base units against which the U bolts are secured as they rotate with the axle. The axle part of the cutout is 10mm wide to allow for 5mm fore/aft movement. There is a slot cut all the way through the plastic block, and at right angles to the axle axis, to take the U bolts. In the front unit this slot ensures the axle slides evenly forward and back. In both front and rear units these slots, combined with the Nyloc nuts at either end of the axle, also help transfer lateral forces from plate to board. The U bolts are threaded @ M6x1 and on the "U" part are 5mm thick. There is a P-Tex sheet above and below the green plastic block. The metal plate above the block is currently 3mm aluminium, but could be made thinner by using stainless steel. The axle and U bolts do not move in relation to each other. All moving parts are stainless steel on UHMWPE/P-Tex. Stainless steel moving on steel is prone to wear unless well lubricated. The axle is solidly supported underneath along it's whole length apart from at the fore/aft slots. The snowboard has had new inserts placed in the 12.9 x 3cm pattern of the UPM, but one side of the UPM rectangle has been aligned with the 4x4 pattern on the board for both front and rear units. The resulting distance between the outermost front and rear new inserts is 62cm, which is NOT consistent with the UPM pattern. At the time I put the new inserts in I knew the 12.9 x 3cm dimensions but not the fore/aft dimensions of the UPM. SunSurfer

Sean, that is a hell of a lot less than a number of people have been able to find by any other means. Recent quotes to board members via UPS (192 Tanker in the For Sale section) have been of the order of US$250+ which makes the shipping costs prohibitive. Is the $65 method of shipping only open to you as a manufacturer, or is it a method that the average board member could use? SunSurfer

Italy behind New Zealand, now that's embarrassing!!! SunSurfer (& proud Kiwi!)

The problem of bad use of science, statistics, etc. in the media is very widespread. A great way to amuse yourself but also to open your eyes to how widespread the problem is, is to read Ben Goldacre's book "Bad Science". or just go to http://www.badscience.net/ Like Dan, I'm also trained to critically evaluate research findings, in my case primarily medical research. "Bad Science" will help someone without that training spot much of the crap out there! SunSurfer

Because we don't know what the overall rate of boarders taking lessons is, we cannot tell whether the group being injured are any different in their rate of instruction compared with riders overall. SunSurfer

Approx 1.5 kg for combined weight for - plate - front & rear hinge slide hardware - all mounting screws/bolts/nuts. Mounts to Apex type pattern (roughly a 13 x 3 cm rectangle). Required extra inserts into my oldest carving board. Stronger / smoother slide than Mk I. Based around four, modified, 316 stainless steel 6mm wire rope clamps as available from ships chandlers & rigging companies. Having recently read many of the posts on gear failure on this board I'm pretty happy this will be up to the task. This is what I was thinking about when I was wishing for a computer controlled router. Managed without it. SunSurfer PS: Not quite enough snow here yet, but not long to wait.

Thanks Mike, I have just got hold of some pre-PTex'd inserts to modify the mounts on my 4x4 boards so the precise measurements are most helpful. You're probably aware that I'm developing/making my own homebake plate(s) but also want to be able to fit commercial solutions in the future. Might still wait for some more info on whether agreement between Apex Composites and other players (cf. B Varsava's post about discussions taking place off board) has been able to be reached before I pick up my drill! Alan

Options would include - New: Look at the Coiler snowboards site - http://www.coiler.com/home.html Bruce Varsava's VSR or All Mountain carving boards might the kind of thing you want. You could really torment yourself by also looking at the Prior http://www.priorsnowboards.com/ & Donek snowboard http://www.donek.com/ websites as well. It's all so tempting! Recent advances in carving board design include decambered nose & tail, metal damping layers, & multiple sidecut radii. Read some of the board reviews to get a better idea of what I'm referring to. You could also look at the growing amount of stuff about decoupling plates. Some posters believe that these make a significant difference in crud/bumps/chopped up snow but it would be fair to say that there's just not enough opinion out there to be sure, and the technology is still maturing. A boardercross board might be easier to get hold of in Australia, and would probably handle everything you would throw at it. e-bay Australia occasionally has boards come up. SunSurfer

Hi, Check out most of the other For sale threads. Pretty much anything that's going to sell needs to have good quality (not cell phone) photos of the board, its' base and camber. You can either edit your original post, or, add the photos to a new post by scrolling down the Reply To Thread page and clicking the Manage Attachments button. Note the file size restrictions on the photos. A number of BOLers are from the Southern Hemisphere. Me, I'm in New Zealand but I already have a slalom board to play on. Welcome aboard, there's lots to read and it's a good bunch of carvers here. SunSurfer

Does anyone have measured details of the insert spacing for the Hangl/Apex Composites plates? From what I can see of the various photos posted on this site it appears that there is approx. 12cm between the centres of the Left & Right side inserts. Otherwise I'm just guessing. SunSurfer

Hi Seb, The idea was for you to edit post 336 where your e-mail address is still in the standard format. SunSurfer

Hi Seb, You may want to reformat your posted e-mail address in the style username at hotmail dot com Stops programmes that scan for e-mail addresses picking you up and drowning you in spam. SunSurfer

Hi Seb, I'm going to be in Wanaka at the same time the FIS Junior Champs are on. I'm assuming the PGS will be at Treble Cone? Cardrona & SnowPark aren't holding it, but Treble Cone doesn't have any info on its' website yet. SunSurfer

The ideas flowing around in this thread, the Alpine Snowboard Plate Systems thread, and from some personal communication with Lowrider have led me to a new design. The three features that will make the Mk.2 a distinct improvement on Mk.1 are - 1/ Ability to add lateral mounting inserts to my existing 4x2 & 4x4 pattern boards (You could even add them to a Burton or Hooger mount pattern board). I have 30 pre-Ptex'd multi-inserts ordered and on the way from the Worden site. 2/ Lateral inserts are mechanically so much better than the 4x4 that I will be reducing the amount of aluminium in the custom width hinges I build. I no longer need to try to build in the stiffness to hold down the outside edges of the hinge. This will reduce the weight substantially, and reduce the footprint. 3/ Lowrider's current design has the sliding motion required dealt with in the plate, rather than in the hinge unit as I had in Mk 1. For Mk.2 I have taken this idea and, I think, improved it by coming up with a way for the home builder to create an accurate sliding bearing in the plate, similar to the one used in the final Mk.1 hinge, but with all P-tex contact surfaces. Time to close off this thread, Mk.2 photos and construction details will appear in the near future. SunSurfer

I've been looking for reliable ways to fit new inserts to a 4x4 board to allow for lateral insert placement and possible retro fitting plate system to 4x4 board. There appear to be at least 3 wholesale suppliers of pre-Ptex'd 7 & 9mm depth inserts, together with a specifically designed countersink drill to create the correct cavity to seat the inserts in. www.maislinger-snoli.com www.wintersteiger.com www.sulzberg-sport.de There is a French site http://www.worden.fr/boutique/index.php/Worden/118-ENTRETIENREPARATION/60-Vissage/730-1604SM9.html that will sell the inserts alone, doesn't seem to have the countersink drill. There are also some Russian and a Slovenian site I found that may sell you the inserts. Finally in the thread "Chronicles of a home-made plate system" The photo shows the kit that Snoli market, but they also have inserts and drill separately. I can foresee a market for this stuff to allow the full range of plate systems to fit any 4x4 patterned alpine board. Does anyone know of any other commercial supplier selling both inserts and/or countersink? Is this the kind of thing that All Board Sports, Hardbooter, or Bomber might be interested in adding to their Accessories line? SunSurfer

http://www.maislinger-snoli.com/nc/de/produkte/browse/1/select_category/25.html Snoli make the stuff, and a few places in Europe seem to sell it. Drill a pilot hole from the top. Drill the base using the countersink to create the socket that matches the profile of the pre-PTex'd plug (7 or 9mm depth), thin layer epoxy, drive the plug home into the board. Wait for epoxy to set and base grind your board. Haven't yet found any place outside continental Europe that sells the plugs, countersink, or snowboard mounting kit. SunSurfer

Thanks Tufty. Your link explains this photo of Roland Fischnaller's base with a Karl type plate in use in an FIS race 2008-09 season (from the FIS Smugmug site). SunSurfer