markbvt

Update: Snowed a fair amount yesterday and overnight, so this morning I took out a board I'd never ridden before, a Burton Triumph 73 (I got it free because I worked on the graphics, but this was during the off-period when I wasn't riding so it sat in the barn collecting dust). Great board in soft conditions. But by 10:30 when the new snow started getting skied off and the trail ended up with mounds of soft fresh stuff interspersed with areas of boilerplate, that board ceased to be fun. It chattered way too much on the hard stuff, especially when transitioning from soft to hard. Also, due to its width I was riding 45/42, and even so the board was sluggish edge to edge. Lower angles would have helped, but even those were too low for me (at one point I actually found myself thinking I should have brought my old PJ asym). I'd really rather keep the angles up in the mid 50s. And the 8.something SCR was TOO turny. So that El Diablo is looking like a better choice all the time. Or maybe a Donek Axxess or narrow Incline, or a Prior 4WD 169. Decisions, decisions... --mark

My mistake. I was under the impression some of the other companies like Intrawest, Vail Resorts Management, etc, were bigger than they are in terms of number of resorts owned. Sounds like they just cater to the higher end of the market. --mark

Huh. I wonder how an apparently rinkydink little outfit like this managed to acquire Mt Snow. They must be letting the place do its own thing, because shutting down a Vermont resort in mid-March would be suicide. --mark

Good lord. What makes these boots so special? --mark

I'll be watching this with interest too. I have a pair of Burton Furnace hardboots that could stand to have new liners. --mark

True enough, but in this case I actually want it to be a turny board. If the conditions are smooth enough for carving bigger turns at higher speeds, I'll be on the Prior 180 anyway, or every so often I might pull out my old Burton FP 5.7-180 (still a fun slalom board to this day). This board in question would come out once things start getting bumped up, or on days when the conditions are really soft and my narrow alpine boards would just have a tendency to dig in. Hmm. Speaking of wider, turnier boards, maybe I should dust off my old Burton Stat 5 and take that out one day, just for giggles. --mark

Hmm. That F2 El Diablo looks like a really interesting choice. And it's not too expensive. Thanks for the tip! I'll definitely have to email Sean and Bruce too when I'm getting close to pulling the trigger on this. --mark

Yeah, I was thinking along similar lines, except with a board around 167-170cm and a shorter SCR for tighter turns. Part of the point would be to have the board still be fun when the conditions start to get bumpy and require quick turns. And as for a wide Angrry, seems to me a wide alpine board would defeat the purpose. I'm looking for something that will carve well on groomers but will also work well when conditions get soft and choppy, and even in powder (within reason). Much like my old Kelly Slopestyle did, back when I was younger and skinnier. :) That's why I was thinking of a modified freeride shape, just with a stiffness that's somewhere between the Kelly/Supermodel and a typical race board. --mark

That's another narrow alpine board. Again, I'm looking for a more versatile all-mountain board, just one that still carves well. --mark

Hey all. Little bit of history: I've been riding for over 20 years, started in softies with three-strap bindings, did lots of carving on my old Kelly Slopestyle freeride board, switched to hardboots and the usual succession of asym slalom board, symmetrical slalom and GS boards, and eventually wound up on a Prior 180 custom GS board, very stiff with lots of camber, super fun board, to the extent that I spent less and less time riding other boards. Eventually I became increasingly frustrated with crowds/etc, to the point that I would drive up to Stowe early in the morning to be there when lifts opened at 7:30, ride till 9ish when the human slalom gates started crowding the mountain, then go home. A season or two of that, plus a succession of very cold but not very snowy winters, combined with a lack of people to ride with, pretty much got me out of snowboarding for the better part of a decade. But this season I've started to get back into it. I still love that Prior 180, but having been confronted with similar situations (crowded slopes, soft/uneven conditions, etc) I've realized that I really need to get myself on a versatile modern board when conditions no longer suit a race board. But I have two problems with typical current all-mountain/freeride boards: too wide, and too flexy. I'm 6'4"/260, but my feet are only size 11 and I prefer relatively steep stance angles (upwards of 45 degrees; I ride about 60 degrees on alpine boards), so even the 250mm waist on my old Kelly Slopestyle is a little on the wide side. I've got an elderly Burton Supermodel 68 that works okay, but it could definitely stand to be stiffer, and a damper ride would be nice too. I'm thinking one of the current boardercross-inspired boards might be a good choice. Coiler BXFR, Donek Saber, Incline, or Phoenix, etc (I'd probably order any of the above with a 240mm waist). I'll leave the hyper-priced Euro brands out because this board will be directly competing with motorcycle farkles, and if it costs too much it will lose. Am I overlooking any good choices? Anyone here own any of these? How do they stack up in stiffness, ride quality, and edge hold? (For what it's worth, I'd stick with my hardboots but use my old Burton Step-In Plate bindings, which are a little flexier than the Cateks I use on the Prior. Softboots have gotten a lot better, but I still can't stand strap bindings.) Thanks for your input -- and for reading this far! --mark

You should definitely check out K2's Kwicker step-ins. They're being marketed for splitboard use, but K2 does also make a "resort" version of the binding designed to mount to normal snowboards, including Burton channel ones. The Stark boot designed for use with the Kwicker bindings should be somewhere in between the stiffness of a hardboot and a typical softboot. --mark

I'm glad this question was asked, because I was wondering myself. Damn shame; I love my old Catek bindings. Odd that the Catek website is still up... --mark

Oh, don't get me wrong -- my Prior is a much more fun board. And I've ridden the Burton 6.7 and several other Factory Primes; the 5.7-180 was something special. Burton got a lot of things right with that board, and it ended up a more fun board to ride than any of the other FPs I tried. --mark

That may be the case where you ride, I don't know, but in most of North America (where this forum is based), alpine snowboarding is so rare that most people on the mountain (including other snowboarders) have no idea what it is. Hence the "heard it in the liftline" thread -- some of the comments and questions we get can be very funny. --mark

I learned to carve on a freeride board with softboots and three-strap bindings. This was in the mid-'90s when softboots were really soft. A stiff modern softboot like the Burton Driver X with tongue insert installed is nearly as stiff as many hardboots, and provides good edge response even with two-strap bindings. On my softboot freeride setup, I rode with stance angles around 30/15, and gradually increased these a bit. When I got my first alpine setup, it was an asym race board, and I used stance angles somewhere around 45 degrees. It didn't take me very long at that point to move on to a narrow symmetrical board and 60+ degree stance angles. My point is, that progression can happen fairly easily if you're already comfortable carving on your freeride setup. I honestly couldn't tell you how I learned to carve on mine; at some point I just got it. My riding advanced to the point that I understood how to carve instead of skid my turns. So by all means, work on carving on the setup you've already got. That will give you the basic feeling. Then transition to an alpine setup for a step up in performance. --mark

Imagine how I feel. I drifted out of all this about a decade ago for a variety of reasons (lack of people to ride with, inconvenience, cost, shifting interests, several crappy winters in a row, plus it had just gotten a bit stale for me). I got really into motorcycles in the meantime, and last year started thinking that I really should get back into snowboarding to keep myself from losing my mind in the winter. Bought a Bash Badge to Smuggler's Notch and have gotten out several times this winter, and am enjoying myself again. Of course, all my gear is well over a decade old. Favorite board is still my Prior 180 custom GS, narrow and stiff with a LOT of camber; yesterday I also broke out my old Mistral Sonic 167 (rides like a smaller version of the Prior, except that it's badly in need of a tune!) and my old '97 Burton Factory Prime 5.7-180 (still a very fun board). My point in mentioning those is that you see what I'm working with. When I got out of the game, titanal was just beginning to make its way into boards. It's fascinating to see the considerable evolution of alpine board shapes and construction. Some of the stuff posted in this thread definitely looks pretty Terminator-esque! --mark

Thrilled to see Jasey Jay win the gold. What a way to cap off his career! Had to watch on CTV, as NBC coverage was awful as usual. The beauty of living less than an hour from the Canadian border... --mark

I've got a 4WD 178 and a custom 180 GS (basically a WCR, but slightly different geometry and (I think) more camber). I'll go with Boris on pretty much everything he says. The 4WD is a great all-mountain freecarving board, but in smooth, well-groomed conditions, the 180 GS is just awesome. First time I rode it, I got to the bottom of the mountain and exclaimed, out loud, "Holy sh!t!" Edge hold is incredible, and the board is very confidence-inspiring. Not to mention fast. :) But if conditions are soft, it digs in pretty easily, and if you're not careful you can find yourself catapulted over the nose. Granted, both of my Priors are quite a few years old now, so I can't speak to how the '08 model 4WD and WCR compare. But I'd imagine the differences are similar. Since you'll break out the Palmer in softer conditions anyway, my advice would be to go with the WCR. --mark

I think it's hilarious that we recognise each other by our motorcycles. :) And Blue Bird, yeah, the roads up here in Vermont, NH, and upstate NY are fantastic. There are plenty of twisties that you couldn't even ride at 80mph. Try the Appalachian Gap sometime (Rt 17 between Starksboro and Waitsfield) -- some of those turns are so tight you can only do 35 or 40, tops -- and that's scraping pegs. I actually won't let myself buy a sportbike. On the Bonnie I get the sensation of speed at halfway reasonable speeds; on a sportbike you feel like you're standing still until you're moving at rates that will get you arrested. --mark

Speaking of which... --mark

The problem with the XR650 is that it gets really uncomfortable after about 200 miles on pavement -- much less off. It is a fun bike, and it's actually surprisingly good on twisty roads, but the seat should be reclassified as a medieval torture device. Also, while it would probably be a great bike for riding in the desert or in open fields, it's actually not a very good dirt bike for Vermont. What few trails there are around here are mostly tight logging roads and that sort of thing, with terrain that goes from hardpacked dirt to bare worn rock to mud to soft forest soil (often in the space of a few yards). The XR650L is an awfully big, heavy bike for these conditions, and there are no street-legal tires that really get sufficient traction on that mix of surfaces. So I mostly stick to Class 3 and 4 dirt roads. Which is fine, because there's no place to legally ride offroad in Vermont anyway except for private property with the owner's permission. Besides, I'm mostly a street rider anyway. I'm happiest riding a twisty road on my Triumph. --mark

Thanks. Eventually I'll find my way back onto a snowboard... maybe even later this season, although the weather forecast is doing a lot of freeze/thaw action, and I'm over iceboarding. I bet motorcycling in western CO is awesome. Hopefully I'll wind up out there on a bike sometime, but if so it'll probably be a V-Strom or something, not my XR650L. :) --mark

Those mirrored topsheets look great. I used to ride at Whitetail, many many moons ago. My last season there was '96/'97. There weren't many hardbooters besides me there then either. --mark

Hey Jack, long time no chat! You're not the first to ask me to participate in a Loudon track day. I'll probably make it to one eventually. The logistics are difficult to arrange though, and I don't really have a suitable bike. I hesitate to take my Triumph -- it's a Bonneville cafe racer, great fun in the twisties but a bit low on power for the track, and I also don't want to risk crashing it. I suppose I could put street tires on my Honda XR650L and pretend it's a supermoto. I've avoided buying a sportbike because my speed addiction would lose me my license. On the other hand, I'm constantly doing longish rides all over Vermont, NY, and NH. Maybe we should meet up for a Kancamagus ride this summer. --mark

Wow. If I didn't have to work that day I'd seriously consider hauling out my old PJ6 and doing some heelside "sitting on the toilet." :) --mark