~tb

I Think some of the stratton crowd might have seen my lowest hand dragging moment. . . once, while dragging my hands on a toe side, I hit a soft spot and my board slowed way down and I started going forward. the board finally started to catch up, but I was so far forward with the board so "hooked up" that I managed to get my up hill arm UNDER my toeside edge at the nose of my board. My arm stopped dead in the snow, pinned under my edge. As my board and my body kept going, my up hill arm went the full length of my 195 under the edge. Chewed my forearm to @#$% and strained every muscle, tendon and ligament in my arm. That changed my riding for a while.

+1 on what Jack and Arcrider have been saying . . but with some additional emphasis. I went through a phase in my 2nd or 3rd year of riding where I was finally getting close enough to touch the snow. . . . and I wouldnt get off of it. It actually became a bad habit and a cruch that really slowed down my progress (there are several BAD videos of me riding during this time period . . . sighhh. . . .baaaad hands down. . . a$$ up. . . not my prodest time). I acutally had to put some drills in my routine to break the habit. Im now a fan of "as close to the snow as possible, with the best possible form, and without touching." Trailertrash is pretty spot on with the thinking of the snow as an electric fence. . . get as close as you can . . . but don't touch it. The drill that I added to my routine is a run every once in a while with no gloves on. Still carve as hard as you can, and as close as you can, but you really wont want to touch. I actually went as far as to switch to riding in gloves that are as thin as possible to discourage myself from touching down. Great question and great topic.

Come up to the ECES! Between riding with others, the clinics and the terrain, your riding will jump a whole level in the week!

MonkeyFarm, I too am a 9-10 US shoe size. I am without a doubt a 26.0 shell size for the Deelux/raichle boots. My foot actually measures 27.1 cm. The fitting guide puts me in a 27.0 shell. I bought 27's and was SWIMMING in them. Returned, exchanged, in a 26.0 for several years and they fit great. So where do you live? I am sure we can find a good way to help you get into the right boot size on first try.

I have 2 pair of OS2 combo base plates that I would love to trade for dedicated 4X4 plates. Anyone else interested? one pair is the stock finish and the other is anodized blue. I know these work with OS2's and I believe they work with the freeride bindings as well. (for those of you using burton freeride boards but also OS2's on your 4X4 alpine stuff). Some people like the versatility of these base plates. Others dislike the slots that allow these plates to work. I don't NEED to trade these as they would just be "2nd board kits." Will post pictures if anyone is interested.

wasman, I have had a similar issue. based on your description, I would try getting rid of the inward cant, especially on your back leg. . . and potentially even using a small amount of outward cant (take small steps, small stesp=big difference). FOR ME, I have found that if one side feels good (toeside) and the other feels weak, I need to cant more towards the side that feels good. This seems to take "power" away from the strong side and give it to the weak side. more balanced on the board, more balanced load on my legs. You're front leg is likely getting tired because it is the only one that is setup in a manner that can deliver any power to your heelside edge. I think it kind-of works like the gas pedal wedges in a soft boot set up that are used to fix a weak toe-side. I ride cateks which makes this an easy adjustment on the hill to see if it really fixes what's ailing me. With bombers, its a little more involved, but easily something you can adjust between runs and try. When I run into someone on hill that appears to be having a setup problem, I love throwing them on a set of cateks for a day. Go out with angles set up for the board and then based on the riders feedback during runs, tweak the cants and lifts till they are all dialed in (similar to having a bike sized for you on a fit bike) . At the end of the day, measure the cant and lift, calculate the closest bomber disk settings, duplicate the setup as close as possible and see if that fixes the problem. If you ever find yourself riding near boston or southern VT, give me a shout and I bet we can get this problem to go away within a couple of runs. ~tb

Are you riding standard or step in bindings?

lets see if i can answer your questions. 1) the shape of these is designed to try to minimize the impact to the flex of the board. shapes could be made to increase stiffness of the board. . .but you would have to camber the plates. same problem you ran into before. 2) that carbon is only 2.6mm thick. i can do the math on monday, but i think the 1/4 inch lexan will be stiffer as strength goes by thickness^3. what is the flexural modulus of carbon and lexan? i have seen these before and am reluctant to use them for anything structural. if you want carbon, i would find a cored laminate with a fairly dense and robust core. just use lexan. 3) if you try to minimize the impact to the boards flex, you really dont increase the load on the screws. if you have a plate that makes the board feel any stiffer, it will likely increase the load on the screws. the stiffer you make it, the greater the force. 4) when catek released their plates and everyone was breaking metals, they made a template available. here it is (thanks jeff and crew at catek!): http://www.catek.com/resources/FRS_RS_dimensions.pdf Print out on 11X17 paper. check the measurements referenced on the drawing to make sure its 1:1 before cutting. once cut out, remember to lightly bevel the bottom edge. good luck!

Yeah. . . its not snowboarding, but this kiteboarding video is GOOOOOD. I think some of the design elements here, if applied to carving to lead to a very good carving video.

Other thought for you Jack, Whenever I have shipped my boards out west on trips, I have found that you can ship 1 board in a box for around $25 (185cm or shorter). 2 boards USPS sandwiched together for about $35, 3 boards, $45. You get the math. X2 for both directions. You pick how many boards you want above 1, and know that its $20 a pop to take them.

Been there a long time ago and I am guessing things have changed. I am dealing with a similar issue in planning for my trip to Utah. where I keep comming back to is taking my bread and butter race shape (Donek 185 metal) that I am comfortable on ANYWHERE and a freeride board incase we hit that epic powder storm (Tanker with plates would rip at JH imho, Donek Incline, Supermodel, Fish . . . the list goes on). You will have some days on your kessler before you leave for Wyoming . . . I think you will find that it makes the cut. I have found that I am sooooo comfortable on my 185 metal, that even when it is "out of its element" that I am still more comfortable on it than if I were to take a more terrain specific/ideal board. But then again, I am a bit of a freak!

Thanks for all the feedback guys, as well as the several e-mails sent my way. Flights are being booked and were figuring out the remaining details! Pray for snow!

Alright Salt Lake locals and people firmiliar with the area, Looking to take a trip to Salt Lake City in early march with my brother and father (both skiiers, dad's 60th birthday). Looking for a good "4 day of riding" schedule. Could be a sampler of multiple areas or just hang out at one. Love the groom, but get pleanty of that here in the east. a good mix of on and off piste would be ideal. Love mountains where you can jump in a bowl, ride the powder through the trees and then finish up railing some turns on some groom at the bottom. Any good back country easily accessable? Cat Tours? best way to get some fresh tracks on the cheap? Any good ticket deals? Bordy? Dave?

jojogreen, I think that if you look into this a little more, you will find that very few manufacturers use radial sidecuts on their boards. They run the gamut of multiple blended radii to higher order math functions and some non-mathematically based splines. Most of the manufacturers advertise an "equivalent sidecut radius" just to give an idea. This, as you state, means you need to take results from any geometrical calculation with a grain of salt, not just with Kesslers, but just about any board. The "new school" shapes have thrown this an even more extreme curveball based on how the shape of the sidecut changes over the length (without even getting into taper profile and (de)camber). Knowing the approximate sidecut of a board can sometimes be helpful, but most likely will not tell you enough about the ride characteristics of the board in a vacuum Don't think I have much of a point with this post, other than extending your comment beyond just kessler and to a larger portion of the market.

Dave, I have several custom and several stock boards in my quiver. I Think the really neat thing that they bring to the table is the ability to fix that one thing you dont like about one of your stock boards. For me, I could never find the right waist width for me. I knew that 18.00 cm was way to narrow. . . at 19.00 or 19.5 I found that I was not getting the edge pressure I wanted at the time. The solution, take that same shape, but have it cut at 18.50 cm. All of my boards sense have been made at 18.5 cm waist. Not a huge deal, but when a good portion of riding well for me is a confidence and "head game" thing, knowing that there is nothing better means all the excuse are problems with me and my riding. . . not a lacking of my equipment. The other common adjustment is the relationship between flex/flex pattern and sidecut shape. These two play off each other directly on how the board turns. Lets say you had a board that was a great length for you and great width for you and your stance, but it was either a "beast" to ride, or too turny. . . or god forbid the nose likes to "fold." A couple tweaks to either the sidecut or the flex pattern and that board can go from a loser to your favorite board. A little long winded, but I think you get the point. I love my customs. . . but there are also some VERY good stock shapes out there. Enough of the small board mfg's have huge catalogs (beyond what is shared online) and there is probably one for you already in existence.

I have a Dakine Dually I could sell you. It is currently storing two donek 205's right now (Along with a 195, 3 185's and a 171). Drop me a line if all else falls through.

I have 3 boards if anyone wants to feel metal VS glass. I have 3 185's, all the same shape all the same taper and flex (or pretty darn close). board one is Traditional Glass construction board two is a Prototype Kevlar with titinal strips board three is carbon and metal construction board. (all Donek) Im not riding the boards enough right now. . . if you live in the MA/VT/NH/RI/CT region and want to borrow them, I might be able to lend them out with an understanding that you break em (or damage em) you buy em. they all have matched tunes right now.

Not riding as much as I used to. 3 X 185s all the same shape (different materials) seems a little overkill. Based on that, I thought I would throw this up to see if anyone is interested in it. This board has been ridden no more than 6 total times, and babied in-between. Still has all of its camber. Put a fresh tune on it and you would be hard pressed to see a difference between it and a new board. close up on label Condition is at least 9 out of 10 (can't even find binding marks on it) Construction is stock (no, not metal, not olympic). Board was built Feb 2005 Nose Width: 23.03 Waist Width: 18.5 Tail Width: 23.00 Sidecut: 16.0m Cost new: $680 USD Stiffness: 9.6 Metallic Red Topsheet Selling because I have 2 other Donek 185's (1 kevlar 1 metal), love this board, but it just doesn't get ridden anymore. Asking $425-450 USD plus shipping. Anything much less than that, and I will hold onto it incase I blow through my other 2 185's. Trades would have to be VERY interesting to be considered, but as some of you know, I just picked up a canon DSLR, which is where this cash will likely go.

I know you want this thread to end. . . but im currently quite enthralled with patents in this area and think I stumbled upon an answer to your question as to where kildy got "his idea" for a full length split Mike. Apparently the concept came from a gentlemen named Stanley Sadler circa 1988. Pretty interesting patent number 4951960. of course you are farmiliar with it as your patent references it. . . I just found it interesting to see compared to the above pictures. You can click on the red box that says "images" to see the drawing in the patent. looks incredibly similar, even as you read into the claims. I guess hardly anything is original anymore. I also found some core and laminate sequence patents held by atomic that the entire snowboard industry is likely in violation of right now. . . but has become standard practice I guess. Perfect example of what happens when you don't defend a patent. Maybe I should pull this out into a seperate thread on interesting snowboard patents rather than carrying this one on.

As others have stated, this comes up EVERY year. I finally sat down and did a part count that I will share below. but as others have said, the adjustabliity of the Catek is worth the perception of the extra parts. I love mine, and when used/set-up correctly, I have had not problem with them loosening. The following are part counts for a single (not pair) binding of each design. Anyone who wants to see my part tally that is a g-mail user, please PM me and I will send you a link to the google doc. For a point of clarity, if a binding uses the same screw 4 times, that counts as 4 parts per binding. Bomber TD1 standard: 34 parts per binding Catek WC standard: 26 parts per binding Bomber TD2 standard: 31 parts per binding Catek OS1 standard: 26 parts per binding Bomber TD2 Step-in: 25 parts per binding Catek OS1 Step-in: 21 parts per binding (I have yet to see a TD3 and the following MAY BE WRONG) Bomber TD3 Standard: 31 parts per binding Catek OS2 Standard: 31 parts per binding Bomber TD2 Step-in: 25 parts per binding Cate OS2 Step-in: 26 parts per binding I would love to hear if people get differing totals. . . but I only get 0-1 extra parts in an OS2 compared to a TD2 or 3. . . so . . . yes, I will gladly deal with 1 extra part, for all the adjustability and tweakability that comes with the Catek OS2.

Mike, I would have e-mailed you my questions (allowing this thread to die), but I can't/couldn't find an e-mail listed in your profile. I can understand that you might not want to list an e-mail in your profile ( I dont think I do), but in your user control panel, you could allow board memebers to send you e-mail. -Todd

Mike, I have a couple questions for you pertaining to a couple of your's and the K2's patents in the area of isolation/derby/binding mount plates. Any chance we could take it off line? I am most interested in which two patent numbers you have on your products? are they 5232241 (owned by K2) and 5284357 (your snow-stix-esc patent)? The conversation I would love to have on, or offline pertains to many other patents in this same area. Some predate these two patents, others followed. Some that followed, seem like they either infringe, or that someone at the patent office decided that they do not infringe. Please e-mail me if you have the time. PS: I was doing some patent research, and agree that Kildy has 0 patent's to his name, other than his filing for his tuning device. PSS: anyone else reading this might find this patent interesting which appears to be held by some of the individuals involved with Madd snowboards

I should have a pair in VT, I will check this weekend. e-mail me through the board on monday. there were 2 flavors of OS1. Year one was with the large king ping, year two was with the small king pin. do you know which you are looking for? They might be the same as I think the spherical nut was the same size for both.

First. . . most rental locations at ski hills are used to the receiving of ski equipment by mail due to the airlines. Call ahead and most places will give you an address to allow you to ship it to yourself. Second . . . Never said I thought I would be able to rent an alpine board. . . . If you carry on your boots and bindings, you can find a pleanty stiff demo board to enjoy your boots and bindings on. Not having your boots and bindings, you are SOL. I love my alpine board, but, if I had to put my own personal equipment in order of importance of having on a trip. Boots before bindings before board. I can have a fun day on a crappy board, as long as my feet are comfy in my boots, and I can adjust my cateks to work with the board at hand.

I have both the stock and D3 elastomers. I really like the D3's and will always use them. as for spacer plates, go with your board manufacturers recommendation. Going against their recommendation may void your warranty. I have seen several other threads where the OS2 was sited as one of the worst bindings for breaking boards. That being said, I know that I have ridden my Donek Metal quite aggressively with Catek OS2's and D3's with no problem so far (knock on wood). If you are concerned though, why not use a "plex plate."