kjl Posted March 31, 2006 Report Share Posted March 31, 2006 yes, the board is on edge, but your body parts are supporting the turn. No they're not. If they were, you'd dislocate your shoulder and break your wrists immediately. Does your hip support your turn in a heelside turn when it touches the snow? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Stevens Posted March 31, 2006 Report Share Posted March 31, 2006 Your body parts are supporting the turn? What does that mean? By thay logic, you could keep turning even if you lifted your edge while laid out. In any turn, the board / edge is always the base of support. The "low" opinion held by some of the laid / EC style is weak. An edge only, "hands off" turn may take more leg strength and, to some extent, greater core strength, but requires no more or less timing and coordination than pure "Euro-carves". Both are skills learned only after a lot of time "in the trenches". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-Sub Posted March 31, 2006 Report Share Posted March 31, 2006 I wasnt bagging on the "EC" style. but to argue that there isnt any weight on the rest of your body...wow... thats why some guys who do it literally FLOP down to the snow then? of course the edge is still engaged or you wouldnt be making a round turn across or up the fall line. you'd be slipping downhill... but come on... anyway, I think the folks who do the EC turn properly look amazing, but there arent many who do. I still think that photo comparison illustrates exactly why trying to touch the snow can be detrimental. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kjl Posted March 31, 2006 Report Share Posted March 31, 2006 There are guys who initiate bomber turns by falling down on their hips, but I don't think they ride with any weight on their hips as they ride around - that's just the way they fully commit to the turn. I know when I drag my hip or stick a hand in the snow that there is no weight on it. I know this because I can pick the hand or hip off the snow without the carve changing, and also because if I did put weight on it it would dig into the snow and give me a pretty sweet beat down. Take it from a guy who's really paranoid about reinjuring previously dislocated shoulders: there's no weight on the hands. You should go back and take a look at Lifted or Stoked or any of the EC movies. To me it's pretty clear that (aside from the money shots where they go into a carve and coast to a stop) 1) their bodies aren't usually contacting the snow and 2) there's no wieght on the arms. Don't judge too much from the pictures - they are really only fully laid out for a split second - it's not like they are sliding around on their torsos for the entire duration of the turn. I agree about the photo comparison - reaching for snow is bad if you break at the waist in order to do it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gdboytyler Posted March 31, 2006 Report Share Posted March 31, 2006 Sometimes, there's nothing wrong with touching the snow. Even Olympic gold medalists do it on occasion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Tim Tuthill Posted March 31, 2006 Report Share Posted March 31, 2006 Ken: That's what I think. I'm not leaning on my arms for support. The position is just part of a low turn, and yes you can get hurt doing this. You are dead on, it's just a moment in time. No guts, no medals!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Stevens Posted April 1, 2006 Report Share Posted April 1, 2006 Yes, bending at the waist on a toeside looks like a weak position, and may result in a breif hand touch. Just as bad a position may be having your hips across the centerline of the board, "looking good" and hitting an unexpected bump. this may result in a huck-buckle as you can't absorb the shock. It sure is a great way to hold pressure, this arched position, but Jaseys style in the photo on this thread allows much greater absorbtion, even though he is pretty much inclining, with little, or no, angulation. I like the non-committal approach he has to either arching his back, and moving his hips too far forward or leaning too much at the waist. From where he is, he can move to recover in any direction he needs to. He is also strong as ****, so he doesn't need to be as "locked out", hips forward as some of us need to in high G corners. We sure have taken this thread to the outer limits as I'm sure we all agree that leaning the upper body over more than the edge angle you're trying to acheive is a waste. I like to spray though, so... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Tim Tuthill Posted April 1, 2006 Report Share Posted April 1, 2006 Oh my God, Klug is bent at the waist in tylers pic??? Oh Oh, arm in back!! I was told to never do this!! Don't surf Tuthill, was said as I went crashing down the hill in Sun Valley on my first day on a alpine board. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Tim Tuthill Posted April 1, 2006 Report Share Posted April 1, 2006 Hey GLEB: Is that Elvis?? He is good!!! This is too much fun!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gleb Posted April 1, 2006 Report Share Posted April 1, 2006 Hey GLEB: Is that Elvis?? He is good!!! This is too much fun!! who is elvis? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gdboytyler Posted April 1, 2006 Report Share Posted April 1, 2006 Oh my God, Klug is bent at the waist in tylers pic??? Oh Oh, arm in back!! I was told to never do this!! Actually, that's Phillip Schoch. Klug was only a bronze medalist. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ar(angel Posted April 1, 2006 Report Share Posted April 1, 2006 in the photo you posted.....see? All he needs is the side-burns and he could be KING !!! Seriously, after giving it some thought, it kind of reminds me of the argument over roadracers dragging their knees when they corner. Kenny Roberts was one of the first to do this and at the time it was shunned as unneccessary. Barry Sheene had more of an "upright" style and kept his body close to the motorcycle. Granted motorcyclist drag their knees or "touch the pavement" as a means of lean gauge and support, so the comparison is not exact. Seems like it all boils down to a difference in style/technique between riders. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Tim Tuthill Posted April 1, 2006 Report Share Posted April 1, 2006 Tyler; Thanks for the correction. Hard to tell with the helmet etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gleb Posted April 1, 2006 Report Share Posted April 1, 2006 oooo ya thats what i thought. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zcarver Posted April 1, 2006 Report Share Posted April 1, 2006 In the past I have often heard people say touching the snow is wrong. What??? Come again. Where did that rule come from? No such thing. You do what you are comfortable at. Your style or method may not or may work for me. It is up to you to find the right form of riding. Others can offer tips and suggestions, the do's and the don'ts...etc. In the end it is up you to do what is comfortable and how to hold the turn. Conditions, equipment, weather and your mental state all make a big difference. Even your own body form makes a huge difference. We all have different body builds that would allow us to ride differently. Some can bend or crouch tighter then others. What a huge advantage that makes. Me personally I love touching the snow. I think it is awesome to have the ability to go as low as you can and be in that position and hold the carve. Even the skiers are doing that now. Someone mentioned earlier that this can increase the chances of getting hurt. Well we all have our opinion and I would have to say I disagree with this. I guess it all depends on the situation you are in. Staying low in some ways actually decreases your chances. You are already down extremely low and not going to fall any harder or lower. If you are riding standing up or even in a L position you have the height to fall down harder. Especially your upper body. On the steeps I always make sure I am touching the snow as this helps control my speed into the turns and I feel less vibration. This also helps to add weight to your edges. It comes down to this, just enjoy, be safe and continue to learn different ways of carving. :rolleyes: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gleb Posted April 1, 2006 Report Share Posted April 1, 2006 Its defintly true that since you are very low that actually falling wont do much. Most of the injuries I've read of was not from falling, but having your hand snag on some snow or ice. I agree with you about how its all about your own style and preference. If you accept the dangers of touching the snow, then thats your choice and no one should tell you otherwise. We accept the dangers of snowboarding in general don't we? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zcarver Posted April 1, 2006 Report Share Posted April 1, 2006 We accept the dangers of snowboarding in general don't we? The moment you lock into your bindings and get on that chairlift. You never know what lies ahead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gleb Posted April 1, 2006 Report Share Posted April 1, 2006 The moment you lock into your bindings and get on that chairlift. You never know what lies ahead. very wisely put:biggthump Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Stevens Posted April 1, 2006 Report Share Posted April 1, 2006 As a Japanese ski jacket of old once said... "Touch the rugged, feel the snowflake". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tex1230 Posted April 3, 2006 Report Share Posted April 3, 2006 anyway, I think the folks who do the EC turn properly look amazing, but there arent many who do.. By the way, D...I rode with Przemek/Brooklyn this weekend...He's one of the guys who does EC right. Seriously impressive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-Sub Posted April 3, 2006 Report Share Posted April 3, 2006 By the way, D...I rode with Przemek/Brooklyn this weekend...He's one of the guys who does EC right. Seriously impressive. sweet. Im keepin out of this one...too late, I guess, but people read what they want to read and perceive it how they want. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ar(angel Posted April 3, 2006 Report Share Posted April 3, 2006 HAEC = Half-Assed Euro-Carves PNWS= Pacific NorthWest Snow (or slush) FPFG= Feeling Pretty F***ing Good :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack M Posted April 3, 2006 Report Share Posted April 3, 2006 check this out: Well i'm impressed. I had no idea you could get that low on skis. Identical positioning too. For some reason that just looks weird to me. He looks like a spider or a crab or something! I can vouch for Przemek's abilities as well. EC done with authority. Yeah, if your hip is on the snow too, then you actually have to <i>try</i> to keep your hands off! I've got no problem with using the hands as "feelers" to gauge inclination. But for beginners.... DON'T PAT THE DOG!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Tim Tuthill Posted April 3, 2006 Report Share Posted April 3, 2006 Jack: That looks great! When I started this maddness, that was the goal. To get down and lay it out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gleb Posted April 3, 2006 Report Share Posted April 3, 2006 For some reason that just looks weird to me. He looks like a spider or a crab or something! its true how it doesn't look anywhere as graceful as on a board but I would still love to be able to do that on skis. I'm gonna look into some skis that can do that. Being able to rip on skis and a board like that is really my ultimate goal. If I get good skis, i'll always be conflicted which to use first Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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