skatha Posted March 13, 2006 Report Share Posted March 13, 2006 I watched a complete noobie(unlike the partially noob, me) bounce off her head this last week. I beat her friend to her and it was obvious that she was done for the day-a little blank look to her face, a little pause to answer questions.... A day gone for lack of a helmet.... On a lighter note, her boyfriend told me I was the most graceful rider he had seen....of course, they were just learning and were surrounded by people wiping out just standing up on their boards, but it was nice to hear... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baka Dasai Posted March 13, 2006 Report Share Posted March 13, 2006 Not again! I watched a complete noobie(unlike the partially noob, me) bounce off her head this last week. I beat her friend to her and it was obvious that she was done for the day-a little blank look to her face, a little pause to answer questions....A day gone for lack of a helmet.... I disagree with the conclusion. Her day may still have been gone even if she had had the exact same fall but had been wearing a helmet. And if she had been wearing a helmet she may have a worse fall due to the increased confidence the helmet gave her. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mirror70 Posted March 13, 2006 Report Share Posted March 13, 2006 Look on the bright side - she didn't get any permanent damage and will probably now start riding with a helmet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pow Posted March 13, 2006 Report Share Posted March 13, 2006 i started wearing helmets this year. i would absolutely recomend it to anyone who doesnt. my falls have become for the most part painless and ive only been out for a day because of an injury once (hit a mogul and came down so hard i smacked my knee into my jaw, biting a nice chunk of my tongue out) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hans Posted March 13, 2006 Report Share Posted March 13, 2006 i started wearing helmets this year. i would absolutely recomend it to anyone who doesnt. my falls have become for the most part painless and ive only been out for a day because of an injury once (hit a mogul and came down so hard i smacked my knee into my jaw, biting a nice chunk of my tongue out) I fully agree. Two weeks ago a skier was racing after me at a red piste. I was also going very fast. He just touched my board lightly when he overtook me without noticing it and I fell over for about 10 m. First I just fell at the back of my head and then at my back at a very icy piste. My Dainese helmet had some scratches on it and I had a light headconcusion for two days. My back was hurting so much that I couldn't snowboard for a day (wearing also a Dainese backprotector but hit the piste with my back just beside my protector). If I hadn't been wearing this helmet, well I think I could say without any hestitation that that day was my last day on this planet. So my helmet was a real lifesaver that day, so I will never snowboard or ski without a helmet again. Just my 2 cents. Greets, Hans. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kjl Posted March 13, 2006 Report Share Posted March 13, 2006 I disagree with the conclusion. Her day may still have been gone even if she had had the exact same fall but had been wearing a helmet.And if she had been wearing a helmet she may have a worse fall due to the increased confidence the helmet gave her. Heh, you and your risk compensation ;) In regards to the first point: I've whacked my head a bunch of times with and without a helmet on ice, and hits with the helmet are better, for sure. Perhaps I am at greater risk to break my neck in a ragdoll tumble, but from sheer impact, there is a clear winner. In regards to the second point, personally I don't ride any differently with or without a helmet, because the limiting factor is that I am afraid for my shoulders and my knees, not my head. Of course, one data point doesn't actually mean anything, and in general with these kinds of things, I tend towards believing whichever side results in the least financial profit, since the other side will tend to be bolstered with more commissioned studies, so in this case, helmet manufacturers. In this particular case, I have a hard time believing people ride more aggressively when they wear helmets simply because I think most people's greatest fears are their limbs, or simply wish to avoid falling down at all. Would you agree with the statement, "If you know that you won't ride like (more of :D) an idiot if you are wearing a helmet, you should buy a helmet and wear it"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pow Posted March 13, 2006 Report Share Posted March 13, 2006 absolutely. and no matter how confident you are in your own ability, things you cant control (such as skiiers for hans) can cause nasty results. this may make for an interesting poll Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gecko Posted March 13, 2006 Report Share Posted March 13, 2006 Not again!I disagree with the conclusion. Her day may still have been gone even if she had had the exact same fall but had been wearing a helmet. And if she had been wearing a helmet she may have a worse fall due to the increased confidence the helmet gave her. I do not agree but then wearing a helmet has been normal for me skateboarding, MTBing and motorcycling for years (not to mention at work), wearing one on snow doesn't make me more confident but not wearing one scares the crap out of me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skatha Posted March 14, 2006 Author Report Share Posted March 14, 2006 Not again!I disagree with the conclusion. Her day may still have been gone even if she had had the exact same fall but had been wearing a helmet. And if she had been wearing a helmet she may have a worse fall due to the increased confidence the helmet gave her. You can suffer a fatal brain injury with a 12 mph blow to the head-the equivalent of falling off a bicycle and hitting your head on the concrete. Unless you are suggesting I stop my risky behavior of sitting on bicycle seats, I will continue to ride with one. Also, since I live in Houston, a trip to snow always runs about $1500(plane tix for me and hubby, room for me and hubby, etc)-I'm going to do the best I can to protect my investment, including wearing a helmet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lonerider Posted March 14, 2006 Report Share Posted March 14, 2006 I disagree with the conclusion. Her day may still have been gone even if she had had the exact same fall but had been wearing a helmet. And if she had been wearing a helmet she may have a worse fall due to the increased confidence the helmet gave her. We all know your viewpoints on protective equipment Baka. As you said, riding without due regard to safety will negate many of the benefits of protective equipment - I can agree with that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest jschal01 Posted March 14, 2006 Report Share Posted March 14, 2006 Putting risk compensation to one side, people might perhaps remember that helmets (with the exception of Team Wendy) are not designed to protect against most concussions but instead against serious, life altering brain injury. So the "day gone for lack of a helmet" stuff when someone is just a little dazed is kind of off. Love people's faith in gear though! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Civ Posted March 14, 2006 Report Share Posted March 14, 2006 trust me, helmets do their job. I would be dead right now if not for my lid. There is no disputing that fact. This was done skateboarding, not snowboarding, but you get the point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galen Posted March 14, 2006 Report Share Posted March 14, 2006 Not again!I disagree with the conclusion. Her day may still have been gone even if she had had the exact same fall but had been wearing a helmet. And if she had been wearing a helmet she may have a worse fall due to the increased confidence the helmet gave her. ...yeah, that's why I always stuff my pants and jacket pockets with sharp, pointy objects, makes me ride much safer. :rolleyes: Seriously though, the argument that wearing a helmet causes one to ride recklessly is flawed. It might be true for a small minority of young jibbers, but that's about it. You make confidence sound like a bad thing. Confidence helps you to ride better. Ride better= less chance of injury. If your confidence outweighs your ability, that's foolishness, a different subject. I've always climbed, surfed, carved better when I'm feeling confident. Worse (and less safely) when I'm not. Everyone I know who wears a helmet does so "just in case", not so they can ride beyond their abilities.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tufty Posted March 14, 2006 Report Share Posted March 14, 2006 trust me, helmets do their job. I would be dead right now if not for my lid. There is no disputing that fact. This was done skateboarding, not snowboarding, but you get the point. Just for the sake of poking a stick into a hornet's nest, I'll dispute that fact. That was a photo of a cracked helmet that had presumably sustained an accident. Not knowing the circumstances of the accident itself, I'm obviously blowing smoke, but... Helmets are designed to fail. That's what they do. You fall, they hit the hard stuff and fail catastrophically. That very failure absorbs the impact and hopefully saves your bean without causing any other injury. Even 'small' impacts can seriously affect a helmet's structural proerties, that's why you should replace helmets if you drop them, etc. So, the simple fact that a helmet, post-trauma, is cracked, is not evidence that you would have been dead. Had you ever fallen in that helmet before? Dropped it? Slung it into a backpack and dropped that / dropped stuff on it / smacked it against a wall, etc? This is not an argument against helmets, of course, despite the fact I continue to ride without one. Still, my birthday tomorrow, and there may be a Giro coming my way. simon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baka Dasai Posted March 14, 2006 Report Share Posted March 14, 2006 JHelmets are designed to fail. That's what they do. You fall, they hit the hard stuff and fail catastrophically. That very failure absorbs the impact and hopefully saves your bean without causing any other injury. Helmets are designed to work (or "fail" as you put it) by having their foam compressed. Cracking the foam is not part of the design, and therefore tells us nothing about whether the helmet worked as designed. The cracking might have helped, it might have made things worse, and it might have made no difference at all. Who knows? And that's all leaving aside my pet subject of risk compensation :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tufty Posted March 14, 2006 Report Share Posted March 14, 2006 BTW, http://www.bhsi.org/other.htm#snow Make of it what you will. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Civ Posted March 14, 2006 Report Share Posted March 14, 2006 ill get a witness to the crash to post, trust me, blow all the smoke you want, THIS HELMET SAVED MY LIFE. I high sided on my board, got turned around and hit the back of my head full on. At close to 20-25 mph. Im pretty sure that id be a veggie at least. And no I didnt drop/sit on/ otherwise damage my helmet. I bet you dont wear a seatbelt either tuffy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pow Posted March 14, 2006 Report Share Posted March 14, 2006 ive hit my head a few times, lightly. my helmet's still solid as a rock. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tufty Posted March 14, 2006 Report Share Posted March 14, 2006 ill get a witness to the crash to post, trust me, blow all the smoke you want, THIS HELMET SAVED MY LIFE. I high sided on my board, got turned around and hit the back of my head full on. At close to 20-25 mph. Im pretty sure that id be a veggie at least. And no I didnt drop/sit on/ otherwise damage my helmet. I bet you dont wear a seatbelt either tuffy. Sounds nasty, and I'll take your word for it. But it _doesn't_ mean that you would be dead, or a vegetable, without the helmet, even though you were no doubt better off with one than without. Is all I was saying, is all. Generally speaking, a cracked helmet comes from either a massively nasty crash, helmet abuse (even unknowing abuse - leaving a helmet in a car in full sunshine can damage it, for example), helmet ageing, or a manufacturing defect. In most cases, a helmet will not show damage to the internal foam after an accident (although the exterior might well do so) although completely unusable from a safety perspective, hence my question about damage - what your photo showed is, I hope, rare. ive hit my head a few times, lightly. my helmet's still solid as a rock. Solid it may be, but still operating within it's design limits? Who knows? There's only one way to find out if your helmet is still within spec. Test it. To do this, you use the services of a testing laboratory, who will charge you ample sums of money for destroying your helmet in a scientific manner;-) Here's a thought for all the "ZOMG MY HELMET SAVED MY LIFE" crew: Would you ride without a helmet? Would you ride _hard_ without a helmet? If not, there's your risk compensation right there... By the way, I'm legally required to wear a seatbelt. And it's tufty :) Simon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mirror70 Posted March 14, 2006 Report Share Posted March 14, 2006 leaving a helmet in a car in full sunshine can damage it, for example Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tufty Posted March 14, 2006 Report Share Posted March 14, 2006 :) Sadly, not my BS. High temperatures (above 110°F/40°C) will melt most plastic shells. So don’t leave your helmet in your car or anywhere else near direct or indirect heat. If your helmet melts, it is not covered by our one year warranty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mirror70 Posted March 14, 2006 Report Share Posted March 14, 2006 I heard you can damage a helmet if you look at it cross-eyed. Everyone who wears a helmet also engages in high-risk behavior like unprotected sex with ugly women. Without helmets, those same people would have stayed home reading the bible. It's a proven fact. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pow Posted March 14, 2006 Report Share Posted March 14, 2006 when tufty finds himself flying 60mph headfirst towards a tree, hes ganna remember this thred and think "damn, i shouda worn a helmet" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allee Posted March 14, 2006 Report Share Posted March 14, 2006 for no reason other than it keeps my ears warm. I hate cold ears. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Posted March 14, 2006 Report Share Posted March 14, 2006 when tufty finds himself flying 60mph headfirst towards a tree, hes ganna remember this thred and think "damn, i shouda worn a helmet" Not sure a helmet would help with that particular collision... I like mine because it's warmer than a hat and lets me shrug off minor falls that otherwise might leave me with a headache. It's true that at this point I wouldn't bike or snowboard without a helmet...is that really risk compensation? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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