Sizing a board for pow

[johnstewart]

So I'm trying to find a board which will work well on powder (and bumps where necessary), yet still carve well.

When going out west, I'd like to be able to replace my freestyle board with this in my quiver... I'm finding it hard to pare down my boards since all of my carve boards are really not appropriate (I don't think) for powder, bumps, and all-mountain riding. Even though I never ride it here in WI, when I go out west I usually end up on my freestyle board for the entire trip (most recently at Jackson Hole).

I weigh 215-220 lbs. What is important for a board to be big enough to plane on powder reasonably well? Obviously width is going to matter, but is length? What dimensions should I be looking at when deciding if something is going to work well on powder?

Since I never get any here, I don't have any way to test it out! =)

[johnstewart]

I'm headed to the Salt Lake area in a few weeks, and what I'm considering taking:

- Freestyle board. Sims 165, very wide (not sure offhand how wide, but by far the widest I own). I figure this is a must have unless I find something that can take its place. It would be awesome to find something that will work on pow and also carve better than this.

- Race board. I want to do some NASTAR. I'm most comfortable on my Volant Excel 162. Short and very turny. Perhaps, actually, not ideal for race courses out west (maybe not as turny as in WI?).

- Donek Axis 177. This is really too big to be useful in bumps; I tried riding it one day at Jackson Hole last season and it was a total joke. If I'm in icy moguls at the top of the hill, I want a shorter board to be jump-turning on. A reasonable board to do NASTAR on, however

- Something else? A buddy (hi Tim) is trying to sell me his Burton Ultra Prime. It's a fun board and easy to handle. I'll bet I could reasonably ride it in bumps, but I'm less confident in its ability in powder (assuming I get any).

These seem to be my main choices. Four boards, plus the wife's, would be a bitch and a half to travel with, though.

Last year I went to Jackson Hole and took the freestyle and the Axis. The Axis came out on the first day, and promptly went back. Just oo frickin' long for me to handle it well in bumps... and I just didn't have enough energy in my midwest-sized thighs to ride it right. I could carve a turn or two, but just couldn't keep it up for any length of time.

Suggestions?

[Neil Gendzwill]

- Freestyle board. Sims 165, very wide (not sure offhand how wide, but by far the widest I own). I figure this is a must have unless I find something that can take its place. It would be awesome to find something that will work on pow and also carve better than this.

Rad-air Tanker 172?

[johnstewart]

But what is most important? Width? Length? Total surface area to weight ratio?

[Mike T]

But what is most important? Width? Length? Total surface area to weight ratio?

My limited experience suggests shape, flex, and SA/Weight ratio.

-Swallow, fish and pintail boards with big noses tend to float better

-Softer noses work better at least for me

-Having tried many combination sof "traditional freeride shape", the ones with most surface area seem to do it for me.

But I'm not the expert by any means... just trying to fuel the discussion.

[Jon Dahl]

Flex, medium is good, with taper like a Malalo, nose a little taller, total surface area rates second to shape. Case in point, my splitboard is a 178 Oxygen that I added 25 mm taper to it. What I lost in total s/a the shape more than made up for. The nose now pops to the surface when it didn't before. Mind you the length is a bit much for me in the bumps, but I hate 'em anyway. If I were buying new I'd lean to the Khyber or the Malalo 2nd. Nothin' beats a swallowtail in the deep, but the tails tend to be fragile.

[mackDan]

OK I'm 5'8", 170#. I normally ride a 162-164, have ridden and could own 170 could own a 171 Donek.

My Powder board has been the 162 Hot shine, which is a kind of all around carve board, a bit wider than the F2s, Rossis, Burtons and my Oxygen Proton. It works pretty good in moderate powder (up to about 18"), like yesterday morning at Heavenly, but it starts to be not enough surface area in deeper powder, like the 24-36 yesterday afternoon at Heavenly (YES AWESOME!!!!). When it gets that deep the board starts to submarine, and then will start getting to slow in the less than really steep powder, which sometimes ends up with me hiking a bit to a nearby run or to get on someone's tracks for easier running. It also works good in the moguls and the end of day chop, in fact I will ride that board just about anywhere on a ski hill.

So what I should have had is my newer "powder" specific board, a Oxygen SX 164. Its wide, directional, a little too stiff (its a boarder cross board), and rides pretty good in the powder, and can carve on the groomers when the powder runs out. It might be a tad long, but works pretty good all around. Its 29/24/29 width. So a rough loading calc weight/(lenght x ((tip+waist)/2))

The Hot shine is around 47 pounds/square meter

The Oxygen SX is around 39 #/m2

So the bottom line is wider is good for powder boards, but not too much length for your size / weight. The longer boards will comprimise the ride in the moguls and chop.

Good luck.

[Guest jschal01]

You are asking about a freeride board, not freestyle. FWIW, worrying about carving when going out to Jackson is sort of like going to Paris and hoping you can find good Chinese food. They do have it (AV in particular), but that's not really what distinguishes the place.

If the Steepwater snowboard site is up again, they have a good summary of what makes a good freeride board. Looking at the spec of the Prior MFR or Burton Triumph or Malolo, as Jon had mentioned, also give a good idea. At your weight a 168 or 172 probably would be a good size, although a Fish would also work really well as a tree board for you (eg denser parts low down on Saratoga bowl) and they max out at 163 or 164.

You don't mention your foot size? Don't go wider than you need for you foot with your stance angles.

You mentioned trying to carve the Axis in the bumps, if I read you correctly? That's really a technique issue -- don't try to carve as strictly defined through the bumps -- more than a board issue.

[johnstewart]

FWIW, worrying about carving when going out to Jackson is sort of like going to Paris and hoping you can find good Chinese food. They do have it (AV in particular), but that's not really what distinguishes the place.

True; just my point of reference as the only big hill I skiied last season.

You don't mention your foot size? Don't go wider than you need for you foot with your stance angles.

Really? I do have size 30 mondo (12 US), which is a pain. I don't mind the angles, but they're necessary unless a very wide board.

But isn't width an important factor in the ability of a board to plane over powder? Or is length more important? Or is it just plain surface area?!?

You mentioned trying to carve the Axis in the bumps, if I read you correctly? That's really a technique issue -- don't try to carve as strictly defined through the bumps -- more than a board issue.

No, just *riding* through the bumps. I don't do much carving up in the bumps. =)

However, when you've got to do a bunch of jump turns on some nutso hill coming off the top of a mountain, the rotational momentum of that 177 Axis really proves to be significant.

[kjl]

IMO:

If you're doing jump turns on bumps or chutes in powder and/or chop you're looking for a short board that you can muscle around, and a wide board for float + stability, and so you should get a good old fashioned freeride board. Not a "wide carving board" that's 21 cm wide, but like an actual freeride (25.5 cm waist) board. If you get a stiff enough freeride board you may still kind of be able to carve it, but in my opinion you should also be wearing softboots at decreased angles for the best feathery edge angle control with your ankles so you can really enjoy the powder.

I guess it all depends exactly what you're riding, though. If you're riding open glady, smooth powder I'd get a nice, stiff freeride board like a Never Summer Premier or a Ride Timeless and angle forwards more and ride it a bit faster, in which case you can still carve it. If you're doing lots of jump turns in tracked out crud or navigating tight trees, I'd get a Fish/Malolo/Khyber and give up the carve for the day.

[surfinsmiley]

I know nothing about snowboard design but the two boards that really take my interest for powder boards at the moment are 1. the Rad Air Tankers and 2. the Dupraz D1.

(There is another one made by Burton that sounds good but it has that funky three hole thing going on:confused:, so it`s out of my consideration.)

Both boards seem to be able to hold their ground in all sorts of conditions but are most at home in the Powder. The Dupraz may be a powder specific board that just happens to be able to do lots of other stuff as well.

From what I`m learning, it appears that snowboards are just like surfboards in that specific shapes are better for specific purposes. After many years of surfing I`ve found that the no comprimise approach offers me far more versatility in the quiver. ie. each of my surfboards has a specific wave range.

I am taking the same approach to snowboards now, yeah it might become a pain to carry 3-4 boards when traveling but at least then your always sure to have the right equipment on hand for the conditions.:) Each board should be optimally tuned for the conditions your riding in. You want to ride something different really well? you need to go back to the car to pick up that board.

That said, my all moutain freeride board is a blast in everything, it just exels at nothing. Get a powder specific board to add to quiver and you`ll be a happy man I reckon.

[Guest jschal01]

"True; just my point of reference as the only big hill I skiied last season.

Really? I do have size 30 mondo (12 US), which is a pain. I don't mind the angles, but they're necessary unless a very wide board."

I should have asked whether you're riding plates or softboots on the current Sims (as well as which Sims), if plates you have no prblem, if softboots what are your angles now, and have you tried going lower?

"But isn't width an important factor in the ability of a board to plane over powder? Or is length more important? Or is it just plain surface area?!?"

Design, in particular shovel, taper, setback, and camber/flex pattern (ability to decamber) are more important than pure surface area in terms of float and planing. This is why a short fish can still be a blast for a big guy like you. And why even at Jackson you won't see many big guns anymore.

"No, just *riding* through the bumps. I don't do much carving up in the bumps. =)

However, when you've got to do a bunch of jump turns on some nutso hill coming off the top of a mountain, the rotational momentum of that 177 Axis really proves to be significant."

Try tip rolls instead of jump turns, seriously it will make you feel much more in control. But also work a lot of crossunder turns, they will help a lot with both steep soft snow and bumps without having to tire yourself with tip rolls or jump turns. COmpress at start of the turn to unweight, extend through the turn. Jack has a great article "Crossover,crossunder, crossthrough" that had carving as a focus, but the technique is equally applicable elsewhere.

[Bobby Buggs]

Get a Osin 4807 in the 168. Im sure it will work well in the deep and it will freak out your friends If you look around you can find them fairly cheep

[Ladia]

I was nice board for powder, nothing more. I put about 5 days on it. Last week the base started to crack longitudinally on a couple places in the middle of the board. The crack are about 2 inches long. This will be not repairable. I think Dynastar is not making them anymore. Save your money for something better built.