What The? BOMBER IS BEING SUED!

[Shred Gruumer]

Guys tell me this is not for real!!! ONE of our own doing this?.. Say it ain’t true?

I heard about the lawsuit that Randy S. vaguely mentioned in the Intec thread. Since my girlfriend is an attorney she did a little digging for me and sure enough, fearing the worst, Joel Broadbent is suing Bomber along with F2 for the Intec heel failure. My intent is not to take away from any injury or flame or any wrong behavior. So that’s that. Just wanna let my take on this out.. Because this will not be good for anyone who enjoys this sport!

Here's what I know and found out. I guess since it’s of public record people who love this sport and or all sports should take notice.. We are in danger of losing one of our own.!

Here is the public record of the case, at the San Francisco Superior Court site:

http://www.sftc.org/Scripts/Magic94/mgrqispi94.dll?APPNAME=IJS&PRGNAME=ROA&ARGUMENTS=-ACGC05443225

If you want to view the documents linked from that timeline, you have to download their file viewer plugin here:

http://www.e-filing.com/downloads/setup.exe

I feel very bad when someone gets seriously injured specially again one of our own! But isn’t this like suing your family? From what I read it was the Intec heel that Randy talked about that disintegrated.. Not the Binding!!I think we all know that Fin is not a corporation with deep pockets, and he is a very very small fish that still allowing us to swim. If Bomber goes.. Who’s next? I’m surprised car makers and motorcycle makers don't stop making them.. I would they provide you with a luxury you didn’t have 100 years ago..so if your going to bite the hand that feeds you then , I would say then walk to work!! unless its blantent , like that fricken Pinto! what where they thinking..

I just don’t see this being a good decision on Joel’s part. I hope that he can make a full recovery but nail down the F2 people ,, that seems to be the defective part, not the binding..am I missing something?

I also found out that California law allows you to sue anyone or anything even remotely associated with the product.. I’m hoping that Bomber and Fin can be dropped from this, I don’t know if Joel realizes that Bomber has no money and that he'll put them out of business? What would we do then? Bomber is vital to this sport. Is Catek next.. makes ya think, How could a fellow carver do this?? Joel, sue the manufacturer, fine, but call your dogs off Bomber!! I hope that this is not going to happen and again not knowing Joel, aside I wish him well and hope he makes a full recovery..

I know the grammer suks but its Friday , and havn’t had any sleep in like 3 weeks,..work, new house etc. sorry guys!

I was hoping I didn’t have to concentrate on Bomber this early but this scares me..

Hope all is well with everyone!

Right Said Shred

[lonerider]

First, I would like to say that I personally don't believe the Bomber is directly responsible for failure of the Intec heels that Joel has just recently purchased from BOL and I'm pretty sure it's safe to say that most people don't see BOL as responsible (there is no need for everyone to post in a roll call and be like "ME TOO").

Nevertheless this is not my decision, it is Joel's decision (he is a local rider here in Tahoe, although I don't know him personally), and considering that he came extremely close to losing his leg due to a design/manufacturing issue with the Intec Heels he bought from Bomber, I don't believe I or *anyone* here has the right to decide who he should or should not at least try to sue to receive compensation or to spur change in the industry. And it isn't just California law, without being an expert, I'm pretty sure ALL states in the US allow for someone to sue the manufacturers and everyone involved in the chain of commerce. If you get hurt due to your BOL-purchased gear and lose a leg, it's your choice if you decide not to sue. We all have our own opinions... but I don't see any real discussion of this very emotional issue is really going to get resolved.

So I'm not saying that anyone here reading this shouldn't post... just think first about why and what you are posting for before doing so. Lest this topic get very ugly very quickly. For instance your post significant stirs the pot with a lot of talk about "one of our own" and "family" and a sense of betrayal - I understand your reaction, but just ask that everyone consider their words more carefully, and with fewer exclaimation points :)

Guys tell me this is not for real!!! ONE of our own doing this?.. Say it ain’t true?

out.. Because this will not be good for anyone who enjoys this sport!

We are in danger of losing one of our own.!

I feel very bad when someone gets seriously injured specially again one of our own! But isn’t this like suing your family? From what I read it was the Intec heel that Randy talked about that disintegrated.. Not the Binding!! If Bomber goes.. Who’s next? I just don’t see this being a good decision on Joel’s part. I hope that he can make a full recovery but nail down the F2 people ,, that seems to be the defective part, not the binding..am I missing something?

I also found out that California law allows you to sue anyone or anything even remotely associated with the product..

How could a fellow carver do this??

[Jack M]

Of course it is Joel's choice, and he is free to make it. That is obvious. However the fact that it is a very bad choice for this entire sport needs to be made known, and I think he really needs to think about what he is doing. If this goes down, Catek is next. Or anyone who sells Intec heels (Donek, Prior, YYZCanuck, etc.)

This is bad news.

[Phil]

If you want to talk about choices, then it is Shred's choice to say it how he wants to. Maybe he does feel betrayed as if betrayed by a family member.

Every time I step into my equipment, I know that I may put stresses on it that I or my equipment may not be able to handle. I also know that this may cause catastrophic injury (that is why I stopped riding Burton bindings). This is a risk that I assume. Of course, I am a big guy and therefore am very aware that things break - sometimes often. I hope that I would not sue someone about it.

Anywho, I understand the need to pay medical bills and such, but when you sue someone for your own personal gain, you take the situation that was given you, however bad it was, and make it worse for a lot of other people. In this case, he is going to try and make it worse for Bomber and therefore, all of the rest of us.

Yeah, I would take that personally.

As I am sure all of us do - I wish all of the best to Bomber - Fin, Michelle, and the rest.

[spcarves2]

who is joel broadbent and what happened to him?

[lonerider]

For those who don't know, here are some posts made at Tahoecarvers, the injury was very serious and there was a chance that Joel would never walk again.

Hugh [12-26-04 10:52]

Carvers,

Our very own TCer, Joel Broadbent had his new TD2's blow out on him at full speed this morning. I got a message from him at 10am today as he was gettting prepped for surgery. Send your good thoughts and prayers to Joel. He is going to need them.

Peace, Hugh

Jim Farr [12-26-04 17:59]

Well it aint good. Seems Joel blew out the front bail of the front binding of his new TD2 Steppins and shattered both bones below the knee in the worst way. He'll be in surgery tomorrow morning at a Utah hospital. No real exact location of his hospital. He was pretty loaded.

Carve On ~~~~

Jack Michaud [12-28-04 12:44]

How did the TD2 fail? -Jack

Hugh [12-29-04 06:43]

Jack,

I'm sure you will end up knowing more about this than we will. Keeping this news kinda quiet for now, until Joel is heeled up enough to talk about it. As far as I know, it was the toe bail of the rear foot that failed.

Hugh

Jack Michaud [12-29-04 07:10]

PS- best wishes to Joel. Of course I'm very concerned about our behardbooted brethren - I assumed it went without saying.

Joel [01-01-05 15:11]

not going to say much...just this sucks. I have 7 interlocs(not pins) and a rod that all of the interlocs attach to. My leg is not straight, it looks like my foot is about 15' off. I should be on my feet with crutches in about two months and can expaect to walk in about six with little pain. The Dr. says that I will never snowboard again, but the are suppose to say that.

Just to clarifiy one thing it was my front binding that failed and I did three and a half twists on the wreck that resulted. Please keep the good thoughts coming and I hope to see next years snow.

Joel

See ya

Joel [01-04-05 08:37]

Pain is what my life is about these days. Went back in yesterday for another surgery. I think that is it for the cutting and remaking of my broken body. Now recovery and Pain. I hope you are all having a great time out there and stuff. They had to put a rod in my leg and they put it through my knee so I will have to deal with the knee pain as well. I think that best news I had yesterday is that we won't have to do any skin graphs, it looks like it will close up on its own.

Have a great one and happy trails.

See ya

Joel [01-07-05 09:59]

great trip to the PT today. I have a numb sensation in my ankle:) I think the feeling will come back sooner than anticipated. Still no major infections even though I have been picked apart and put back together again.

I was looking at my set up today and I also blew out the intec heel no pins left and major cracked bent up plastic. It was fine when I looked at them the morning I put them on. I would say that the intec heel failed first. I guess that's what you get for trusting cheap plastic. Who would I speak to about the heels? want new ones and want to see if this is a problem or just a fluke.

See ya

Joel [02-18-05 11:56]

well...the dr. thinks his first try didn't work and I now have 3 ortho dr. Looks like might have to pull the hardware and put external hardware on and if that one doesn't work then bye bye leg...SWucks to be me.

See ya

Joel [02-21-05 23:34]

I am back in town till Thursday the 24th...I am going back to Portland to see some guys that specialize in fixing breaks that don't want to be fixed. Let's go do dinner or something sometime soon. I will be back in a week from Portland. I might have to fly to Georgia for some work on the 6th of March...still waiting and waiting and trying not to think negative thoughts. If I loose my leg I am going to find a new sport.

See ya

That's a brief summary of the posts

Of course it is Joel's choice, and he is free to make it. That is obvious. However the fact that it is a very bad choice for this entire sport needs to be made known, and I think he really needs to think about what he is doing. If this goes down, Catek is next.

This is bad news.

Ok, I just wanted to make explicitly clear that everyone has the right to make any choice he wants (regardless of whether it's a bad one or not) - sometimes it's so obvious that people forget. I agree that this has very far-reaching implications for the sport, virtually all of which are negative (except perhaps that it might force F2 improving the Intec heel design).

Phil, as I said in my post if you read until the end of it, you can say anything you want, and have any opinion. I'm just ask that people think for a moment before posting... that's it. I totally agree with your thoughts about equipment and safety.

[sic t 2]

"and I did three and a half twists on the wreck that resulted."

Oh, that turns my stomach.

Sic

[Gecko]

I think Bomber was included to make the tie to F2...if Bomber wasn't included then the question of "were they new?" couldn't be answered...it's sad that Bomber got dragged into the Lawsuit but they were part of the chain of events that lead to the failure on the hill

[Phil]

Gotcha. Man, that story makes me cringe. I did that same thing at low speed once years ago (just dropping into a run) and my knee has never really recovered - of course breaking it over a rail last year did not help.

I just hope that this all works out positively (somehow) for the sport.

[Hagen]

I met Joel a couple times - unfortunately not on the slopes, only after the crash. He is pretty much just trying to get his medical bills payed. B.t.w. he is in the hospital again because of complications and I'm not sure if it's guaranteed by now that he'll keep his leg...

...I'm also not too happy about the fact that BOL got dragged into this. But it sounds like they had to so that he could get to F2...

I hope that everything works out - for Joel and BOL.

Hagen.

[LeeW]

speedy recovery to Joel, and i hope he's not gonna dismiss skiing and snowboard, regardless. ive done instructing on disabled skiing/snowboarding. so, die-hard would never die.

anyhow, i wonder if this has something to do with the SES incident that we may not be able to demo any equipments out at aspen in '06 ?

[Hans]

I am just sadly surprised by this case. What a terrible accident. Especially with this new equipment, I understand about several topics. This accident is no good for the sport. If the equipment was set up tight enough, this may never happen. As a snowboarder, I think, you must be able to rely on your equipment, especially when it's brand new. I do understand Joel's reaction when you are injured like he is. I think, I would have done the same in his case. Familysnowboarders or not, but who is gonna help Joel?? His leg would never be the same. No hard feelings against BOL or F2. But what would you do if there is a chance that you wouldn't be able to ever walk normally again caused by (may be) bad manufactured materials??? Snowboarding with new equipment, and the next second you are a wreck. Hope some thorough investigation/research will enlighten this case clearly to all of us. I wish all the parties which/who are involved wisdom and common sense. Materials must be improved, it seems the F2heel is lacking of good quality...... Can't be the great TD's of Fin. Hope Joel will ever be able to walk normally again. Well, I just gonna ask myself if I will ever use F2intecs in the future despite its comfort.

Just my opinion about this terrible case/accident.

Greets, Hans.

[Steve Dold]

It would be nice if an attorney could jump in here. It's been my experience that they take a "shotgun" approach in the pre-discovery stages (also included are 50 does, maybe the resort lift operators or the woman at the snack bar who sold him a hotdog will be named later on). There could be a reason it had to be done this way as Gecko and Hagen said.

[bjvircks]

I'm a mechanical engineer and design high performance military avionics. I know from experiance that sometimes what looks the worst is not what caused the failure. Having said that, I must say that I would first suspect any plastic parts of the system. From time to time we've had had product failures in good, well designed parts due to plastic resin lot variations, a molder making changes in the additive package, the compounder changing the molecular weight distribution, or someone along the way not maintaining good control of moisture content in the resin. When plastic is good it can be great asset to a product, but controls need to be in place.:(

[Guest Randy S.]

First off. Let me say this. I'm not a fan of frivolous lawsuits. In fact, I'm the first to jump on the bandwagon deriding folks who unnecessarily sue. That said:

YOU GUYS DON'T KNOW SH1T ABOUT WHAT YOU ARE TALKKING ABOUT. UNTIL YOU KNOW SH1T, YOU SHOULD KEEP YOUR FCUKING OPINIONS TO YOURSELF

/rant off - enough of sounding like CMC.

That said, this is the internet and people always go off half-cocked. So I guess it is understandable, if not excusable to flame a fellow rider about his circumstances even if you don't know **** and you are claiming to be doing this in the good name of our sport.

Here's what I know. Joel has had hundreds of thousands of dollars in medical expenses. His accident happened because the heel, manufactured by F2 failed. There have been reports of multiple similar failures of this part. It would seem (to be proven) that there is either a design or manufacturing flaw in some of the F2 heels. Bomber is the US Distributor for F2 heels. If you are going to name F2 in a lawsuit, you are required to name Bomber as well. Joel feels no ill-will toward Bomber and probably wishes he hadn't had to name Bomber as part of the suit. If there's a chance that F2 will pay all or some of his medical bills, his insurance company may be able to deny coverage. As far as I can tell, Joel is not being greedy and putting BOL out of business is the furthest thing from his mind.

Frankly, I just hope this inspires F2 to make a better product for us. Judging by what I've heard and seen, those heels aren't the safest thing out there.

Fin, can you kill this thread? Its ridiculous and needs to be closed before we all each other to death.

ONCE AGAIN, SCREW ALL OF YOU FOR ATTACKING A FELLOW CARVER BEFORE YOU EVEN KNEW SQUAT ABOUT THE CIRCUMSTANCES. THE GUY HAS ENDURED NEARLY A YEAR OF PAIN, SUFFERING AND REPEATED SURGURIES BECAUSE F2 DESIGNED OR MANUFACTURED A FAULTY PRODUCT, HAVE A LITTLE RESPECT FOR A FELLOW CARVER.

[Phil]

I hear you Randy. I extend my apologies for any comments that were out of line. I still hope that this turns out positively for all involved.

This is probably right up there with blaming people for the way things were handled in N.O. just because we saw a news clip. Unless you are there, you really don't know what is going on.

[skatha]

The doc in me cringes at the mentioned that he sued the docs taking care of him-his lawyers are looking for deep pockets, I know, but the fact he sued the docs will follow them for 7-10 years and possibly make it impossible to find malpractice insurance the hospitals and commercial insurers require you to carry....

Next time you find yourself in an ER with no orthopedic surgeon on-call, remember this and my previous EMTALA post...

As to Joel's individual case, don't know the details and won't comment specifically on it. I do know, the client usually doesn't dictate to the attorney who's going to be named in the suit. My last suit I was involved in, the docs were added a year after the suit was filed against the nursing home. The family was horrified and apologized to everybody once the suit was dropped against us. I get to stop having to explain the suit in 3 years....

[Hugh]

Lonerider,

Nevertheless this is not my decision, it is Joel's decision (he is a local rider here in Tahoe, although I don't know him personally)

Of course you don't know Joel, because you don't make any effort to ride with the other Tahoe Carvers at Kirkwood and you also choose to go to yoga class instead of coming to our TC get together a couple of months ago.

You post on BOL daily and show up in soft boots at 11am on the mountain, that is weak sauce!

Like it has been said before, "Joel is a good guy, he had a very bad carving accident", hopefully he can keep his leg and get the money needed to keep it.

Peace to carvers that carve,

Hugh

[philfell]

This is a bummer that actually has been waiting to happen for years. We participate in a very small sport with very real dangers. The design inovations in our sport are laughable. Look at the boots most people wear, unchanged molds from six or more years ago. There simply isn't enough money and public interest to make it profitable for companies to truly push new product development. While at the same time most of us are out on the snow pushing our limits further and further ever turn we make. This is a problem where our skill levels keep improving, but equipment development aren't keeping pace.

It will be interesting where this takes us. I hope the courts can see that Bomber is simply a vender and shouldn't be held responsible for defect cause during manufacturing, while at the same time coming up with a fair way to compensate Joel for his life altering experience.

[lonerider]

Lonerider,

Of course you don't know Joel, because you don't make any effort to ride with the other Tahoe Carvers at Kirkwood and you also choose to go to yoga class instead of coming to our TC get together a couple of months ago.

You post on BOL daily and show up in soft boots at 11am on the mountain, that is weak sauce!

Lol, well you just mangled the facts quite a bit - although I guess Randy was culpable on the yoga joke thing (damn you Randy!) However, my name is *lonerider* :) Sorry I missed you on the ride in December. I got to ride with your good buddy Rick (and Lee) last season and he is an awesome rider... goes like 80 times faster than me and still so much smoother than me. Hopefully we'll be able to get to ride together as well... but you know me, maybe I'll blow you off again to take my friend with the broken leg to the infimary ;) I said I would show up in softboots because I sold my TD1s and that was when Bomber was a month late on delivering the TD2 last December (via the Madd debacle, I had to borrow a pair of Cateks when I went to Snowperformance) I do post a lot, but that's cuz my job entails me sitting in front of the computer for 12 hours at a time and I have a little spare time between build cycles to check the web (I'm actually still at work now, although I'm heading out to meet friends pretty soon).

I try to ride with the Kirkwood TC'ers, but that usually means I have to abandon my friends, not too mention that I personally have different trail preferences and riding preferences comes to the other TC riders. I don't see why I have to spend an hour traversing just to meet up with some riders that end up going off to do other runs that I don't like (and I don't feel like being a lemming and just blindly following them to trails I don't like).

When I'm showing up at 11AM, that's after riding since 8AM (some of the lifties let us get on the chairs early) on the backside. We stop for lunch early so we avoid the daytripper rush and get back on the slopes 11:30-12:00, just when everyone is coming off for lunch (this lets rip up the slopes when it's less crowd).

It's all good though :) I would love to ride with Rick and your SC crew again...

[NateW]

Wow, this really sucks.

Sucks to be the guy who heads out for a day on the slopes, and got his leg blown up by an equipment failure. That's just not fair.

Sucks to be the guy who builds the strongest bindings available (tied for 1st at the very least), and get dragged into a lawsuit because you sold a failed product that SOMEONE ELSE built. That's just not fair.

Sucks to be the manufacturer whose failed product cost a guy the use of his leg.

Sucks to be anyone involved in a sport where one of the key vendors (Fin/Bomber), who makes some of the best products, is in grave danger because of another vendor's failed product. That's just not fair.

Sucks to be anyone involved in a sport that brings so much joy and yet so much pain. Especially when the pain comes from someone else's mistake. That's just not fair.

[FTA2R]

I read the entire lawsuit and all these posts and i'm in a "wow" state of mind now. Joel, I don't know you, but I'm really sorry this happened to you. It is really awful. Having lost a parent a few months ago (at the ripe age of 26) however, I can say that it is true, what doesn't kill you does makes you stronger. Words I'm sure are of little consolation at a time like this, but you will get through this.

From a snowboarding / carving perspective, this strikes me as perhaps the most significant event in quite some time, certainly one of the most significant BOL threads I've ever seen. Are there any precedents for this suit, specifically snowboard or skiing equipment failing? If not, seems like this is it...

I've only seen Intecs a few times, so I'm not real familiar with all the parts. Can someone confirm that failures with this equipment are more likely when the rider weighs more? What is Joel's weight? Was he riding agressively at the time? Not to pry, I'm just curious...as this story is truly scary.

BTW, there appears to be a minor typo on line 19 of page 4. A date in the future is mentioned and this does not seem to make sense.

I hope there is some good that comes out of this.

[NateW]

In case it's not obvious, I don't fault Fin/Bomber for distributing Intec heels. Not one bit. There are no alternatives in production. In my experience they are a key component of the most reliable boot-board interface available. They were widely believed to be reliable - and maybe that shouldn't change, since failures do seem to be very rare.

But if Bomber-built Intec heels (aluminum frames, stronger pins, etc, etc) ever show up in the Bomber store, I'm first in line and I'll take two pair.

If Joel's lawyer has a good sense of right and wrong, he'll drop the charges against Bomber in return for a nothing more than a promise to bring to market a better product than the one that cost Joel the use of his leg. The world would not be a better place if Bomber had to bear the consequences of another manufacturer's shortcoming, but it WOULD be a better place if this incident led to a stronger alternative to F2's heel. And who better to make them than Bomber?

P.S. I'm assuming that Joel's injury was caused by a failed Intec heel from F2. Maybe it wasn't. But either way, I still want two sets of Bomber heels.

P.P.S. Why oh why couldn't this have happened to someone riding Burton bindings? (I'm still bitter...)

[nils]

All my recovery wishes to Joel...

He has to do what he does for financial reasons so i'm not blaming him for starting an action.., i'm personnaly against the intec and prefer standard bails because i see with my eyes what is locked and not, and trust much more Fin's bails than a small pin with a spring...

When i see the bails we used in the late 80's (emery for example) i'm wondering if there was any lawsuits at the time, since bails were 3mm and people did races on them! When i'm putting my foot on those old boards with old bindings, i'm walking on eggs and feel not safe at all!

Fin, be aware that if things go financially crazy, there will be a full community ready to backup, fund, or raise $$$ to help you ( in case needed)

Nils

[sic t 2]

Just because the Bomber binding is strong and inflexible does not mean its compatible with the intec heal. In fact I would tend to think just the opposite is true. It is known the binding is very hard on certain types of boots and boards. It is also known that its difficult to find the exactly right adjustment (between being able to click in and being too loose when riding). Is that a factor that overloads the heal piece?

Well, sad as it is, I guess that this is part of the fact finding that will go on now. Hopefully it will all come out with good science. Not.

Sic