OT:Gas jokes

[Guest winterstick.org]

I have no problem with diesels - Albeit, I wish they made them with the exhaust pipe coming over the front of the car so the driver gets the black smoke first.

I think it may improve MPG and make the diesel autos more friendly to all.

Diesel is the best direction to head into imo. Today's diesels run much quieter and cleaner than the ones that come to mind when we think about it. In fact, every major brand with their trucks will be introducing a diesel model in their lineup: Toyota Trucks (Tundra), Volvo's SUV, BMW's X5, Nissan Titan... and a bunch more. We always seem to be behind europe by about 3-4 years in grasping automotive technologies.

Personally having worked with diesels I can tell you that the science behind them just makes more sense from a practicality standpoint. I think the next car I get will most likely be diesel or at least something with a 1/2 valve cutoff system at cruising speeds (honda's eco drive, chrysler's MDS etc)

The main 3 emmissions from diesel engines are: 1)NOx 2)Particulate - Soot, 3)Black Smoke. They're using new methods such as particulate filters and higher tuned EGR (exhaust gas recirculator) valves to counter pollution (EGR's actually diminish an engines performance but its an EPA req). I believe Mercedes has come out with a super effecient diesel in their 320cdi, averaging something like 40mpg (city and cruise avg) while passing EPA standards no problemo. Though not all of us can afford a Merc, it just shows that the technology is coming out and will hopefully be grasped by more affordable sedan manufacturers.

I think the american attitude "No replacement for Displacement" is starting to soften up, as it should, and is taking into consideration the price of fuel and its affects on the environment. Right now I'm using a '97 Ford that used to be my moms a few years ago. I'm surprised to get around 30mpg's off the 6cylinder.It helps out since I have to drive about 70miles everyday to school. On the other hand my sister and I also have a truck that we share, though I deny having any ties to it now a days (she can have it), and I can see it depreciating just parked there. An '05 5.7L Hemi Ram. Power is nice but when the gas gauge goes down as the speedo goes up then its not too much fun.

[Gecko]

Diamler/Chrysler's are starting to run the Common Rail Diesel which is built to run on B5 with no changes. It's cleaner quieter and more efficient that diesels of old or gas engines of the present. An I4 turbo diesel has more torque than most V8's and better mileage with surprising takeoff

My brother was part of a pilot pure biodiesel program in Newport Harbor years ago. All of his companies launches (think water taxi's) ran on biodiesel...there were two downsides that he remembers were the soot not smell (popcorn) and more important the loss of top end RPM's (about 25%) Now these were simple Volvo Penta and Yanmar Diesels running at a fairly low compression (for a modern diesel)...what he said was that the engine could not combust the fuel at High RPM's...I think with the addition of a turbocharger this problem would be a eliminater as it should increase the compression.

[Guest winterstick.org]

Yup, diesels are Torque monsters off the line, but lack the high end hp. The turbo would def. help for higher output since diesel engines' air intake is unthrottled (injector controlled off the pedal), I'm surprised it didn't have a turbo to begin with. You're right on about the CRS. Today's small diesels have a slight pre-ign before the long combustion stroke to help reduce noise and knock, one of the features of the CRS system.

Two-Strokes, which arent being produced anymore (or limited), can actually spool up much faster than a Four-Stroke diesel (crank only needs 360deg on a 2, 720 on a 4), though the emmisions aren't as great so they're getting away from them since 2002 (i believe). I was toying around with a Detroit diesel (industrial) last week, 2-stroke supercharged + twin turbos, what a beast. Detroit diesel is now owned by Mercedes. Seems like Daimler-Chrys(Merc) owns alot of the market.

The EGR Valve is where the difference between efficiency and emissions comes into play. Lose it and your efficiency will go up because you're not throwing garbage air back into the intake. At that point your emmisions will go up (could mess with the O2 sensors though). But its required by law, which kills the output of a lot of diesels, especially industrials. From what I've heard the EPA wants to increase the % of EGR from 15%-30% or something like that, crazy. CAT uses their ACERT system (which was stolen from somebody) that's able to pass emissions while eliminating the need of an EGR, pretty neat but I'm still not sure on the exact mechanics behind it.

Interesting fact on the B5, I remember hearing something about the Jeep Liberty a few months back, a step in the right direction.

[Jack M]

How about Meat?

Cow**** creating methane, Land use

Do you heat your house?

Do you use styrofoam? Electricity?

You're no environmental angel. Non of us are.

Stay off your gas pedal. Get to where you're going intelligently.

Word. Skiing/snowboarding is a wholly un-green thing to do. A ski resort spends millions of dollars a year on energy to keep it covered with groomed snow, to haul people to the top, and to keep those people warm, fed, and illuminated at night. Skiers and boarders spend hundreds or thousands of dollars per car to get to and from the resorts. I'm sure this is a partial accounting.

This does not bother me.

This crowd getting holier-than-thou about the environment doesn't quite add up.

Who here has painted their roof white to reduce global warming?

[Mark.Andersen]

If everyone change thier behavior slightly, at the margin, everyone would be better off.

I *know* that my habit of commuting by bicycle 2 or 3 days a week will not make much difference, but it will make a difference. I really don't do it for environmental reasons; it's for my health and mental well being. However, it has *positive* externalities. It's good for me; my neighbors deal with one less car on the road; the planet has 60 miles less pollutions in the air per week. Everybody wins!

Does this make up for driving to Tahoe 20x per season. Hell no. But wouldn't doing nothing be worse?

[Tommy D]

Who here has painted their roof white to reduce global warming?

HAHA! I just replaced my old roof, and had a lighter shingle placed up there.

I do what I can to minimize impact on the environment, but I don't go out of my way. I'm one of those who drives hundreds of miles each weekend for skiing, sometimes twice a weekend.

I have a 60 mile commute, three days a week, and live way out in the woods, so to speak(read: no public transit for miles). If I could work from home full time and maintain my current income, I would. Anyone out there care to offer? I'll do anything from tech writing, to web work, to business and marketing, to project management, or anything else that might be interesting! HOOK ME UP! :) Then I will move to Vermont and walk to the lifts!

It is quite probable I will be purchasing a M'cycle in a few months for making small errands as well as basic transport when my bicycle is not feasible.

[Fleaman]

I think if everyone does something small, it will add up hugely to help stop our dependency of oil. After reading and article in one of the last few National Geographic magazines, it sure made me think about how much I waste personally.

Now granted there is no way I can become totally green, but a few small things such as selling my gas mower and buying a push reel. ( I actually enjoy the push reel, it doesnt smell or make a racket. I can mow the lawn at 9:00Pm or 6:00 Am when it is cooler and the neighbours won't complain).

I ride my bike to work year round, I live fairly close and it only takes me 5 minutes on my bike. Taking my truck uses the same amount of time after starting and warming up and clearing snow off of it etc. This also makes a beer after work more enjoyable because I know that I earned it.

I have installed a air source heat pump to save on heating costs. I guess I can burn wood in the winter, but its a catch 22, you save on electricity, but you pump smoke into the air.

I even tossed the idea around about buying some solar panels and batteries for the roof, but for the most part, it is cost prohibitive. This seems to be the major deterrent of making a difference. All these new technologies (fuel cells, wind power etc) cost and arm and a leg. It takes years to see any returns on them. I think in the near future, the North American government will start to give out subsidies to people wanting to go green. If I had more disposable income, I would definitely do my part.

To make this world a less dependant place, everybody must make a small effort to make a difference.

[skatha]

Solar panels and converters are not as bad as you think-look into the camping supply stores and ditch the high dollar "green" ones

http://campingworld.com

I have a 99 Expedition-I use it only to tow my RV and drive highway miles-20 mpg on the highway-trips to Fort Worth/CO/elsewhere when I take all 5 of us.

I have a Volvo S40-not the new bug ones made by Ford, but the older Volvo version. Plus, I'm constantly tweaking my route to avoid stoplights :rolleyes:

Oh and I have a CHERRY-as in 47,000 miles on odometer, bought it from the second owner 15 years ago and don't drive it-68 'Stang

No, we're not green angels, but a little helps here and there..

As for semis-I would love to get MOST of them off the road. Problem is, the railroad industry has been downsized to 2 companies, millions of miles of track need to be reconditioned and nobody can seem to afford to, and the whole industry has a hard time getting workers

[Kirk]

Won't even THINK about getting on a conservationist/environmental awareness soap box here. Just some thoughts on how to minimize the strain on the wallet (primary motive for me at least) and help conseve resources.

I work for the state (Utah) and have to commute about 30 miles into downtown SLC (which is not nearly as far as some of you out there). While the pay aint great, I have some pretty good benefits. One of them is either a parking permit for our building's sub-level parking structure OR a free monthly bus pass. I choose the bus pass EVERY time. The express route from the park-and-ride (for me, a mall in Layton) to work, around 45 minutes - I love this! Read, sleep or just stare out at the poor slobs that have to drive to/from work every day. The local transit authority just broke ground on an new commuter rail line from Ogden area to downtown SLC - so we're making a little progress here in Utah - good thing too 'cause the highway system here doesn't cut it! On the days that I do have to drive into work (maybe 2X/month) I drive my little '96 saturn SL1 (~35 highway mpg). Hey, if I was a bit closer, I would LOVE to ride my bike!! That's my goal for the next time I relocate - bike riding distances to/from work!

Those that live in areas that offer some type of mass transit - check into it! You might be surprised at how much you can save (even with the cost of a monthly pass). The convenience factor is often the big discouraging point in this decision. At first this bothered me too - but over the years, I've learned to plan accordingly and have come to love this method of commuting. Now, I absolutely HATE driving to work (on the rare day I have too). A thread went around not too long ago about reading habits (what do you like to read, etc.) - here's your chance!

[Gecko]

This has been a discussion in my family for some time...living here in Japan public transit is a way of lifem, cars are the exception. Sure I have a moped and when I need one I'll rent a car but I live on the trains for everything except for work commuting. Everything (shopping, eating etc) here is actually based around the train system. Hell Tokyo has a subway and train system...you can snowboard/ski from a train here...

as for my 2 wheels transport I get mid/high 50's city and low/mid 70's hi-way on my Buell and my scooter (Yamaha Vino) gets 70mpg most days

Cars are over rated...I say that now I may change my mind when I'm away from a well planned/rebuilt infrastructure

[nils]

We reached for the first time 1.53 euros/liter today on the 98 premium

It means : 7.34 USD per US gallon!

Germany has reached 1.51 euros/liter yesterday too!

Seems my 1943 Willys will stay in the garage for a long time, just finished the mechanical rebuilt for nuts!

I'll stick to the TDI from Volkswagen until further notice!

This decade is the end of the V8 era for good, its bad for car fanatics, but good for the environment! Projects are to reduce the top speed on superhighways here too to a slow 115 km/h( 72 mph) instead of 130 km/h (81mph). Strangely Italy just raised the top speed limit to 150 km/h(93mph) on certain highways ( still no limits on german ones, except when dangerous / jams etc when it can reduce to 60 kmh(38mph) in a few hundred meters: means u need a good car, and good nerves to drive there!)

N.

[Jack M]

By the way - who is going to sue the state of Washington for the 50-200 tons of daily sulfur dioxide emissions from Mt. St. Helens? On many days it surpasses all other state industry and power plants combined (120 tons)! Kind of excessive for a tourist attraction, eh? Can I get a piece of that class action?

[nils]

the taxes on gas is financing a lot here, mostly social security and education.. This plus high VAT finances most of our euro countries... ( France has a 19.6% vat, sweden even 25% but at the same time the best social protection in the world..) Lowest VAT in Europe is 15%. Switzerland has a 7.6% VAT but its a rich country that can afford it ! rest of incomes comes from IRS that are up to 48% here ( single male making lots of $$$), and I believe its even higher in sweden and Finland..

Cheaper things often mean there is a price to pay.. but later, since the cost of things has to be the same a way or another.

N.

[C5 Golfer]

I thought that's what the ER was for?

By the way - who is going to sue the state of Washington for the 50-200 tons of daily sulfur dioxide emissions from Mt. St. Helens? On many days it surpasses all other state industry and power plants combined (120 tons)! Kind of excessive for a tourist attraction, eh? Can I get a piece of that class action?

Jack, there is a grass roots effort just starting here to build a highway to the top of Mt St Hellens (sic) so that we can take cement trucks up and cap that sucker. I am doing the best I can - please send your donations if you want to help me in this effort.

[Derf]

I thought that's what the ER was for?

By the way - who is going to sue the state of Washington for the 50-200 tons of daily sulfur dioxide emissions from Mt. St. Helens? On many days it surpasses all other state industry and power plants combined (120 tons)! Kind of excessive for a tourist attraction, eh? Can I get a piece of that class action?

About the ER, don't you have to pay when you go to the ER?

About Mt. St-Helens, I know you are saying this for the irony, but serioulsy, volcanoes are part of the equilibrium of nature. Industries and power plant are not, and the pollution they create is evitable. They can reduce their emissions but they won't do it because they are afraid they will make less profits and the bosses won't be able to make the millions they make. People only take in account money, never health and environment. But in the end, health and environment have a monetary value (by the effects they have on people). People are sick because of the pollution and this costs money to everyone.

[Jack M]

About the ER, don't you have to pay when you go to the ER?

I'm not sure, but I think if you have no means, then you don't have to pay, but they still have to treat you. Mostly guessing here.

About Mt. St-Helens, I know you are saying this for the irony, but serioulsy, volcanoes are part of the equilibrium of nature. Industries and power plant are not, and the pollution they create is evitable.

Some might argue that everything is all in god's plan for the earth, and that includes technology, medicine, pollution, etc. I'm not sure I go along with that, but there's no way to know for sure until you die. Who knows, maybe in 10,000 years whoever is inhabiting this planet will be digging up our garbage and making a fortune on it.

They can reduce their emissions but they won't do it because they are afraid they will make less profits and the bosses won't be able to make the millions they make. People only take in account money, never health and environment. But in the end, health and environment have a monetary value (by the effects they have on people). People are sick because of the pollution and this costs money to everyone.

Agreed. I believe Asthma, Allergies, Autism, prematurity, and other birth defects are mysteriously spiking lately, and it's probably environmental. However there are people who would argue that volcanos have been spewing acidic and greenhouse gases for millions of years, yet we still have relatively clean air, so how can we possibly affect anything. There may be some validity to that, but I think being environmentally responsible is important and has real benefits.

The problem is, what is the definition of "environmentally responsible"? There are some who argue that we are all being irresponsible by patronizing ski resorts, and they would like to legislate against us. Over my dead body. I personally have a problem with SUV's, and I wouldn't care if they were regulated (I would care that the gov't had suddenly usurped that kind of power, but that's another issue). But I can't very well call for an SUV law and continue merrily along with my snowboarding ways. The guy in the Explorer thinks the guy in the H2 is irresponsible. The guy in the Outback thinks the guy in the Explorer is irresponsible. The guy in the Prius thinks the guy in the Outback is irresponsible. The guy on mass transit, the motorcycle, the scooter, the bicycle, on foot, etc, etc.... who is right? Where does it stop?

"Everybody driving faster than you is a maniac and everybody driving slower than you is an idiot."

"I am shocked, SHOCKED to find that gambling is taking place here!"

"Your winnings, sir."

"Oh yes, thank you very much!" (exit stage left)

[skatha]

ER=free care due to federal law called the Emergency Medical Treatment and Active Labor Act-or EMTALA for short

Ask any illegal in south CA,AZ,NM, and TX.....

Now certain ER's are doing financial screening, using a RN or PA to see patients in triage and then saying the patient could go to their MD or pay $300 and up to be seen...All one has to do is complain of chest pain or numbness to get by that....

My old ER up to 60% of the patients were unfunded-current hospital runs about 30-40% unfunded patients...

EMTALA is killing OB/GYNS and their ability to pay for their malpractice insurance which runs from 80K-160K yearly.

One who was dropping obstetrics 10 years ago told me she had to deliver a baby everyday 365 days a year to justify the cost of paying for the insurance. I imagine it's only worse now.

And indigent patients tend to be the ones to sue for malpractice, so many docs won't take care of them even if they had a soft soft for poor people.

As an aside, docs win 85% of malpractice cases that go to trial, but the cost of defending yourself is 10-15K and the malpractice insurance companies typically pay for the defense lawyers. They have no incentive to hire an attorney as the cost comes out of their budget, but the award typically is covered by a catastrophic second insurer that contracts with your carrier without your input. So many insurers push to settle and that reinforces the notion that medical malpractice is as good as the lottery to some people

[Justin A.]

Who here has painted their roof white to reduce global warming?

Its tough to say whether that will have an effect. Yes it will reduce the heat emmisions from your house, but the thermal energy that it absorbs and transfers into the house leads to lower heating bills, thus less energy used. Now, if you covered it in white for the summer, then removed the white for the winter, we could be onto somthing. By the same token, if you pay the money to have water pipes run through your black roof, you have hot water on demand with none of the associated problems of hot water on demand.

Now back to the fuel issue. I commute back and forth to school every day at about 12 miles each way. My chosen major requires me to use about 15-20 gallons of 100LL fuel each day. (100LL = 100 octane Low Lead). There's no way around it. Yes, I could ride my bike, but then I would have to start worrying about federal regulations on pilots (12 hour duty day, minimum stress, blah blah blah) I would like to ride in to school, but we dont have lockers, and I have to bring my laptop, my flight bag, various textbooks, and if I was riding in, a change of clothes (long pants per DWC FOM) and a shower bag. Thats a bit too much to be carrying on a bike for 24 miles.

[Derf]

Who here has painted their roof white to reduce global warming?

A good way to reduce localized warming is to have a green roof. And by green roof I mean a roof with some vegetation on it instead of the regular balck tar. It has been proven that if a certain percentage (not that big, I'd have to dig up the numbers) of the buildings in a city are covered in vegetation, it can bring the temperature of the whole city down by several degrees.

[Jon Dahl]

to work every day, 60 mile round trip, and my legs would be killer for boarding in the winter! I just do not have that kind of time every day. Strongly considering converting my old Audi diesel to run on recycled vegetable oil, but $750 for the kit with the pre-heater kinda chokes me up. It won't take much to push me over that edge though.

[skatha]

I too wish I could ride my bicycle, but....

1. I'd have to ride on a street with a 50 mph traffic flow in a bike unfriendly town with 18-wheelers

2. Sometimes, I have to go in at 10:30 pm-like last night with a new admission with a cerebellar infarct