Somewhat O/T: snow-worthy cars

[P06781]

Do you guys get diesels over from us euros now...? I mean a VW/Audi with quattro/4motion system fitted with a 2/2.5 liter turbo diesel just rocks and you can drive 26-27 mpg ... i read a paper on the US getting bigger diesel sales since the gas price raised up... what are they?

N.

We also have a-4 jetta tdi and love the great gas milege and ability to use biodiesel. There are rumors of a diesel common rail subaru coming and audi might bring the a4 quattro over if they can get them to pass us emissions. Hopefully they do this for 2008 as I would buy once they come out and trade out the suv we own. I am a firm believer in a world oil crisis in the next decade and welcome any attempts to solve this issue to give my kids a chance to enjoy the great freedom I currently have.

Check out http://thefraserdomain.typepad.com/energy/

Jim

[Allee]

Good to hear recommendations on the Element - I'm looking seriously at one for my next car. With two dogs, the plastic back is a total bonus, and while it's incredibly ugly, it seems to be equally as useful...

The other half has an X-Trail which he just loves, it's just coming up to its first winter as a ski wagon so it'll be interesting to see how it goes. They're a great car for the price, lots of nice touches, a back that folds down far enough to sleep in, heaps of room for back seat passengers, and comfy for long road trips.

[Sinecure]

Friends of mine who live in Truckee have an Element and love it. And you should see the hill they live on! I have an Acura MDX and its a great snow vehicle, if it has good tires on it. I bought a set of wheels/tires last year from TireRack so I can swap between summer and winter tires by myself. I wish I'd done that years ago. I've had nothing but good luck with every Honda I've had. Even the MDX, which has had a few problems mostly because it was one of the first ever made (the first year was a bit sketchy for transmissions - unusual for Honda), has been mostly trouble free. And its never left me stranded.

Right now its outside loaded for a trip to Yosemite this afternoon when the kids get out of school. One GIANT tent (18' long), a big inflateable raft, big cooler, camping gear, clothing, 3 mountain bikes, sleeping bags, food, etc. - all fit no problem. Sometimes I'll put the roof box on, but surprisingly I didn't need it for this trip.

JoelP's Element totally looks loaded for fun! Awesome dude!

I wish we got better diesel choices here. Its partly a chicken and egg problem since many fuel stations don't carry diesel. I'd love to see us have a 4Motion Passat wagon with a good sized diesel in it so it would get me, the family and all our ski gear up the hill comfortably. Hopefully by the time I need to replace the MDX in a few years Honda will have a diesel or hybrid version of it available.

[RDY_2_Carve]

VW jettas and bugs will NOT have diesel engines in 2007, but a new design is coming in 2008 models for diesel lovers.

This is from my car and driver which arrived on my doorstep thursday PM.

The Saab 9-2x looks like a sweet ride. I checked out the website to see what all the fuss is about and honestly I like the looks of it better than the WRX. Mostly the front end of the new WRX looks stuipid IMHO. I've test driven both WRX 2.5T and Legacy GT's and they were both stuipid fast and fun to drive. Mileage could be an issue though.

My RSX-S does fine for me in the snow w/o snow tires, but first gear is completely useless with 200hp and the 6speed gearing. I've been thinking about putting some on there when my stock tires finally wear out. Never needed chains so far and I have driven through some pretty bad conditions in both CO and NM. Only problem for me is not wanting to put a roof rack on it as it will look so stuipid. Not to mention the roof is only 2-3 feet long and it's a 2-door car so I will need the extension kit to put a box on top, and then there will be issues with long alpine boards hanging over the back and getting the hatchback to open if I went with a standard snowboard mount. Transporting boards inside a 173cm alpine board's nose is almost to my gear shifter, and a 200cm board would surely be on the dash making for interesting shifting. So far it's served me well for 3 seasons: Three people, 1 board each plus extra board for me (my softboot setup just incase of powder days) so 4 boards total, 4 pairs of boots, hydration packs, etc. and have room to spare. It requires premium gas but with higher altitudes the dealer told me I could use mid-grade (which is all i've ever used). I normally get 32-34mpg on my snowboard trips which are mostly highway miles. Not necessarily the most comfortable car for road trips though!

[durace]

Subi Forester XT Room for two dogs @ 95+lbs each, box on top for boards and stuff, faster than the WRX, it aint your dads station wagon! It had a little lean problem but Cobb and Perin make a fix for it and they are talking about an STI version in the US soon. The Automatic still moves and makes trafic easier.

Paul

[Neil Gendzwill]

It requires premium gas but with higher altitudes the dealer told me I could use mid-grade (which is all i've ever used).

You can use any grade you like, a modern car will just adjust itself. Don't expect to get your full 200 horses with lower grade gas, though.

[lonerider]

So I test drove the 2006 Outback 2.5i and the 2.5XT (automatic) today (I'm pretty sure the Legacy drive virtually identical in terms of the engine). I felt the 2.5i was ok and was as good (or bad) as my Honda Civic for passing. Definitely a nice, sedate car.

The GT obviously was much better at passing and you definitely break 100 mph in a hurry and without noticing it. It just might be me, but I was slightly put off by the turbo kicking in as the engine spooled up to around 3200-3500 rpm. I was wondering if there is a way to flatten the power curve (?) to make it so that you don't get such as strong turbo boost, although I suppose the new modle have an "intelligent" drive mode that softens the response a bit for better gas mileage.

Now I'm trying to look at other thoughts, like the added cost of premium gas, the cost of maintenance for a turbo, the added car insurance for a "performance vehicle", etc

[mirror70]

There is no extra maintenance with the turbo car until you hit 170k or so. But when you have 170k on the car, who really cares about resale value?

[lonerider]

There is no extra maintenance with the turbo car until you hit 170k or so. But when you have 170k on the car, who really cares about resale value?

Yep, that makes sense.

[mirror70]

The turbocharger isn't a serviceable item. When it's done, it's done. It is exhaust driven, so it has no belts that need to be replaced. It uses the engine oil and coolant with no extra mechanical bits to pump it. There is [probably] one extra sensor in the turbo setup (not sure if Subaru's NA motors use MAP sensors or not), and it is on the cold side of things and is a "for-life" item.

The turbo really doesn't add any extra maintenance.

[lonerider]

The turbocharger isn't a serviceable item. When it's done, it's done. It is exhaust driven, so it has no belts that need to be replaced. It uses the engine oil and coolant with no extra mechanical bits to pump it. There is [probably] one extra sensor in the turbo setup (not sure if Subaru's NA motors use MAP sensors or not), and it is on the cold side of things and is a "for-life" item.

The turbo really doesn't add any extra maintenance.

Cool thanks. I just read the the new SI-Drive mode has an "Intelligent" mode that's good for regular day commuting and engages the turbo a lot less. That's what I want for just driving around town. My problem with the Turbo would be that I would press the pedal to get car pass 25 mph... at around 20 mph I would hit 3000 rpm and the turbos would kick in and I would have to pretty much let go of the pedal to avoid hitting 45-50 on a local road in a hurry. It would be nice to turn the turbo mode on and off when I want to go fast, and when I just want to drive around.

[7stg]

I am a big fan of the Subaru they are safe, reliable, and sporty. The <st1:place w:st="on"><st1:City w:st="on">Toyota</st1:City></st1:place> matrix is also a great choice, they are safe and reliable and a little more environmentally friendly than the Subaru.

NHTSA Comparison of Insurance Costs: LINK

Insurance Institute for Highway Safety: LINK

Government Auto Crash Safety: LINK

Government Auto Tire search: LINK

Total Cost of Ownership LINK, LINK

EPA Auto Fuel Economy: LINK

Gas Buddy: LINK

Car Comparison: LINK

<st1:place w:st="on"><st1:PlaceName w:st="on">National</st1:PlaceName> <st1:PlaceType w:st="on">Center</st1:PlaceType></st1:place> for Statistics and Analysis for the National Traffic Administration: LINK

[Mike T]

Subies are relatively inexpensive to insure. My insurance went *down* by about 15% when I traded in my '98 Durango for my '05 OBXT last year. My wife's went down about 5% when she traded in her '01 Nissan Maxima for an '06 OB H6 this year. Keep in mind that part of insurance costs cover loss against the value of the car... so premiums are generally higher on newer cars.

[LeeW]

ok. now i recall my other summer nokian tires, WRs series.

and as for diesel -- www.sportsmobile.com hands down, espiecally 4x4. but the prices ? I'd croak dead before coughing out that much of a dough.

[Derf]

Subies are relatively inexpensive to insure. My insurance went *down* by about 15% when I traded in my '98 Durango for my '05 OBXT last year. My wife's went down about 5% when she traded in her '01 Nissan Maxima for an '06 OB H6 this year. Keep in mind that part of insurance costs cover loss against the value of the car... so premiums are generally higher on newer cars.

The Durango is a full size SUV and the Maxima is a luxury sedan while the Outback is a family wagon. The value of a car is not the only factor that defines the insurrance cost, category is also a factor.

[P06781]

The Durango is a full size SUV and the Maxima is a luxury sedan while the Outback is a family wagon. The value of a car is not the only factor that defines the insurrance cost, category is also a factor.

I am pretty sure the 05-07 outbacks are now classified as a SUV because they made a little larger. Turbo legacy gts, foresters, outbacks are very reasonable to insure do the their great crash rating. However WRXs are very expensive because younger people buy them, modify them, race, and crash them at a high frequency. I hope the outback/legacy xt/gt stay in this sleeper catagory..... :)

Jim

[Enzo]

Hopefully this will be coming to the states in 2008. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fGaTP2OArqY

I'm trying to hold out until then for a new car. For the time being, my 97 Outback is still kicking with 160k (new engine @ 125k). The Spec.B wagon will probably have comparable performance to the S4, but at half the price!!

[NateW]

2006 2.0 GT spec B = 260 or 280 hp depending on gearbox

2005 Audi S4 = 344 hp

But I gather that you could build up a Subaru 2.5 GT to match the S4 and still save a whole bunch of money.

[P06781]

The us spec b's are 2.5 liter, but 2.0 liter in japan. I love the look of jdm specb wagon but unfortuately for the us bumper crash ratings we have different front/rear bumpers. We will never see this in the us as subaru of america thinks that no wants a manual wagon anymore.....

Our local pdx tuner (pdxtuning) has their LGT at 390hp on 92 pump gas (but highly modified).

http://www.legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php?t=28929

Jim

[DrCR]

Saw this thread when it started, but didn't get around to posting...

Anyone have any experience with the G35 "Skyline" AWD model? I love my 4thGen Maxima SE and am totally hooked on its reliability, so Audi is out despite the RS4 being my kind of car - AWD understated saloon (sedan) that goes like stink (quick).

I know I would have to mod it to get to S/RS4 / WRX levels, but I don't mind not getting quite as sport as I would like for a solid car at a solid price (which is again why l like my stock 4thGen MaximaSE).

Edit: On the side, my dad is giving the Nissan Xterra (XTrail in Europe?) a hard look, but waiting for a diesel. Biodiesel is fairly available in my area. I'm a big fan of supporting our farmers as opposed to funding the terrorists. Right now my dad is driving an old Ford Econoline with 125k .

[Guest delta21]

if you go anywhere in snow country the subaru rules the day, they are reliable, and are great in the snow, the seats are hard, and not many luxuries. I also owned a '99 volvo xc I cannot recomend volvo it was always one thing or another with that car, I could not trust it, so i traded it for a jeep grand cherokee, its hard on gas but its a great car. My .02

[tufty]

As for 4WD/AWD....watch out. The drivetrains may not be a true 4-wheel drive and you still could be spinning...The best is a car with more weight on the drivetrain-read FWD here

...

The best ice cars are ones with narrow wheelbases and skinny tires. Old VW bugs can't be beat!!!!

Yep. Around here I drive a Fiat Panda (non-4wd, the old 4wd died and I didn't have enough money to pay for a new 4wd model), I've also driven a Renault 9 and a Citroen BX. Now, by "around here" I mean "in the french alps, where a 4:1 gradient is not considered to be worth signposting, let alone running a snowplough over". To get to the main road from my house means driving a kilometer or more down a single-track road that's 4:1 or better, twisty, and with a 200m near-vertical drop on one side. It's ploughed about once a day if you're lucky. I do the 15km to work 4 times a day, 6 days a week.

Last winter there were 2 or 3 days where I couldn't get down the track to the house, and I _had_ to chain once on the icy road. The rest of the time, a lousy 1100cc front wheel drive fiat panda equipped with snow tyres (not even studded) managed quite happily to get up and down what most people would be afraid to put a landrover on. The same goes for the BX, 4wd Panda and R9, although the BX was the best - shove the suspension in "high" mode and you can get through pretty much anything without having to pull the snowblower out. And the 4wd panda aquitted itself pretty well, too; I always carried chains but _never_ used them.

Again, round here, the vehicles you see in the ditch[1] are SUVs and overpowered 4wd things; imprezas and the like. Thin tyres, low weight and low power are a good thing.

Having driven a Landrover (Defender) for a few days 2 winters ago, I wouldn't even consider one for winter use. 2-3 tonnes of steel and rubber suddenly deciding it's going to 'let go' on a flat road and do a 360 makes for a distinctly brown-trousering experience. I took the alternate (5km further) route to the house while driving the damn thing.

Photo attached: 28 Jan 2004 according to the exif data, a pretty average morning before heading off to work...

Simon

[1] Actually, in many cases, "in the river, 100m down from the road after having barrel-rolled down a 45˚ or better slope". Surprisingly, not many people are killed.

[fishrising]

Thanks for the tips. If we decide we want something that size we'll look at the Pilot for sure. I've always been more of a "understated car" kinda guy so the MDX would be overkill - rather spend the extra money on snowboarding :D

How about a Honda Pilot? Better bang for the buck then the MDX, same drivetrain, and slightly de-tuned version of the same engine (it's still a v-tech though)...

[lonerider]

Thanks for the tips. If we decide we want something that size we'll look at the Pilot for sure. I've always been more of a "understated car" kinda guy so the MDX would be overkill - rather spend the extra money on snowboarding

How about a Honda Pilot? Better bang for the buck then the MDX, same drivetrain, and slightly de-tuned version of the same engine (it's still a v-tech though)...

Umm... 1) He actually mentions looking at the Honda Pilot in his post. 2) The post is over a year old and if you read the thread further you'll find out he bought a Subaru Outback.

In other news, I test drove the 2007 Outback XT, the new SI-Drive is really nice. In "Intelligent" mode, it reduces the engine torque/power and uses a smoother throttle response cuve turbo boost is barely noticeable (compared to the 2006 models). It's designed for better gas mileage, and better traction in snowy conditions - it works really well for local driving. In Sport mode, you get response similar to the 2006 models. The Sport Sharp mode is faster response and power earlier. So basically you can choose what type of car your want it to behave like depending on the driving situation.

I also apparently know a friend of a friend of a friend that works at Subaru and can add anyone to a "VIP list" that gets you 2% below invoice for any model Subaru (you still get any rebate ontop of that). You give them your info, the model you want, and the dealership you are going to buy the car at and they fax/send you a certifcate which you give to the dealer. It's supposedly a well-known thing among dealers and they just need to look up your entry in the database to make sure you are on the list. I'll let you know how it works out, but if it's good - the Subaru-friend encouraged me to send ANYONE looking to buy a Subaru to him as he apparently gets something out of it.

[skatha]

I second the bad review of Volvo-they suck since Ford bought 'em...

My new snowcar has gone from being "on order" to "in production"