Somewhat O/T: snow-worthy cars

[jdgang]

my wife has the passat with the awd. This car rocks in the snow but the gas mileage does suck 19mpg. she does do a lot of local driving so that might bring it down 2-3 mpg. but with stock tires I never had a problem with it in the snow. but as someone mention before the correct tires make all the difference. had a 86 TA back in the day and for the winter I would throw goodyear eagle M+S and an extra 150lbs in the back and that car would go though anything. and with my 1.8t jetta and a set of blizz i dont even take my wife's car anymore.

[skatha]

I'm glad to see NOBODY recommended a Ford Volvo......

As for 4WD/AWD....watch out. The drivetrains may not be a true 4-wheel drive and you still could be spinning...The best is a car with more weight on the drivetrain-read FWD here

As for chains, I have a great set-takes me about 5 min per tire to put on. I ordered them from the local AutoZone. The cashier must have thought I was some dumb redhead-he pulled me aside and said-"You don't need those things down here".....

The best ice cars are ones with narrow wheelbases and skinny tires. Old VW bugs can't be beat!!!!

My 75 VW scirroco was IMPOSSIBLE to spin out-and I did try....

[Daneille]

We have a Subaru WRX wagon . It's perfect. Lots of power, great handling, and were getting 27 mpg with mixed driving.

Daneille

[C5 Golfer]

I personally opt for the Lexus RX330. Got to be one of the best 4WD autos on the road in my ever so humble opinion. Been a RX owner since 1999. I will gladly give up a few MPG for high end luxury, we only live once so why not feel good as much as you can as often as you can.

[Tommy D]

I have an '04 Subaru WRX: Awesome car in the snow, with snowtires. Ditch the crummy RE92's that come on the car (I sold mine for 200 bucks a month after I bought the car!)

I'm thinking about upgrading to a Subaru GT wagon.

I test drove an Acura TSX the other day: Awesome car! Throw some snow tires on her and she'll be good in the snow, too. :) The TSX is on my shortlist, right next to the Scooby GT.

As has been stated above: Snow tires make all the difference!

[Derf]

I second the snow tires opinion. For most roads in the winter (and I say roads, not off-road), front wheel drive, good snow tires and skillfull driving is enough.

As for the car, a reliable compact or midsize wagon (or hatchback) should be enough to carry gear. I usually rely on Protégez-Vous (equivalent of Consumer Guide in Québec) for car reliability. My personnal preferences go to Subaru (Impreza, Legacy) and Mazda (Mazda3, Mazda6) or Toyota Matrix.

And get good snow tires, I can't stress this enough, like Nokian, Pirellis, etc.

[Dave Pushee]

I'm definitely in the Subaru Outback camp. Our first was a '95. Since then we have '97, '99, '01, '04, and '05 XT.

My oldest son now has the '95 with over 200K miles on it.

I'm a little disappointed with the '97. My youngest had it at Boulder, Co and it started to develop head gasket probs with only 170K miles. Gave it to charity and he now has the '01.

Middle son has the '99 in California. We may not find out how long that can last as he was rear-ended recently and it may be totaled. Still young at 120K miles.

With the latest acquisition, I went with the turbo. The fun factor is great, but after a while you learn to ration the lead foot. Averaging about 24mpg.

With good snows, they are incredible winter cars.

Split folding rear seat means you can have 3 people plus snowboards inside the car.

[Jack M]

I'm a little disappointed with the '97. My youngest had it at Boulder, Co and it started to develop head gasket probs with only 170K miles. Gave it to charity and he now has the '01.

The '97-'98 ('99?) model years have known issues with the head, leading to major repairs or engine replacement. My highly-trusted Subaru mechanic/used Suby salesman won't even buy those years to sell on his lot. In 1997, they changed from a two valve head to four, and had serious problems. I'm not sure if it was solved in '99 or '00.

[Mike T]

Thanks everyone for sharing ther experiences... this and other research I've done suggests to me that I should go get me a Subee.

If I can get away from work for a long lunch I might go test drive an '05 and an '06 back to back. A lot of reviews say the '06's are nicer across the board (unless you want a Legacy GT with a stick).

If I like the '06 signifigantly better I might wait till the week before New Years... often the 1st good opprtunity to wheel and deal on the new model year cars.

[Guest Randy S.]

If I like the '06 signifigantly better I might wait till the week before New Years... often the 1st good opprtunity to wheel and deal on the new model year cars.

That's a good plan. That week they are trying like crazy to boost their year-end numbers, plus no one is shopping for cars because of the holidays.

Make sure you post pics of your new ride when you get it Mike.

[Dave Pushee]

The '97-'98 ('99?) model years have known issues with the head, leading to major repairs or engine replacement. My highly-trusted Subaru mechanic/used Suby salesman won't even buy those years to sell on his lot. In 1997, they changed from a two valve head to four, and had serious problems. I'm not sure if it was solved in '99 or '00.

Interesting. Well, at least 170K miles is way more than I ever could get out of a F.O.R.D (found on road dead) or Cheby.

The '97 may have been the first year for the 2.5L engine. Our '95 was a 2.2

If memory serves (not always anymore) I think it was the '97 that ate a few alternators before they got the recall correct.

I think it was the '99 had a heat induced clutch problem. I don't remember the specifics, but after extended driving in 95 degree temps with the A/C on, the clutch would refuse to disengage - hydraulic fluid boiling. Problem was not easy to reproduce in New England. Once diagnosed properly, it was fixed gratis. I think it required replacing clutch master cylinder.

[Guest thomas_m]

We have both the Honda's mentioned in this thread, a 2005 Pilot and a 2003 Element. Both are AWD and pretty much ideal for their purpose in our family IMO.

The wife drives the Pilot - we've got two kids with friends and a couple dogs so the third row of seats is killer. Boards go in a box on the top. Ours is tricked out so it's pretty luxurious but not as much as the MDX, leather, DVD(this is a MUST if you have kids), etc. The one hang-up is you can't get the DVD player and the Nav system stock, it's one or the other. Runs on regular gas, low 20's in everyday driving. 255HP means it's pretty frickin quick if you stomp on it.

I use the Element to drive back and forth from the Park&Ride and will use it for most boarding trips this winter when we don't need the room. Plastic, flat floor makes for easy cleaning. It's totally spartan and ugly but is heavy on utility. The weird suicide doors are a pain if someone in the back wants to get out(have to open front door first). Runs on regular gas, mid 20's everyday driving. 160HP is good enough for anything but towing.

We've also got a slightly modified RangeRover Classic that is excellent in snow and when you put big chains on that thing it's just crazy. Of course, I never know when the damn thing is going to break and need flatbedding back home... The 13mpg isn't so fun these days either.

T.

[Mats]

As a Swede with lot´s of mileage on icy and bumpy roads. And as a former Durango owner I love my Allroad. Don´t know about prices in the states but it´s by far the fastest and safest I ever driven on winter roads. The 2,7 turbo with some tuning and studded tires is great rally/family-car. If you take the air-suspension in consideration and the ride height you can get so you don´t get stuck in snow it´s a safe buy. The second hand market is propably good for a buyer due to new A6-model.

But a Subaru is not bad either.

The "Saab" built on subaru platform is a discgrace, a GM trick. If your looking for a Saab buy a 9-5 or 9-3. Proper frontwheel drive and built in Sweden.

/Mats

[Mike T]

As a Swede with lot´s of mileage on icy and bumpy roads. And as a former Durango owner I love my Allroad. Don´t know about prices in the states but it´s by far the fastest and safest I ever driven on winter roads. The 2,7 turbo with some tuning and studded tires is great rally/family-car. If you take the air-suspension in consideration and the ride height you can get so you don´t get stuck in snow it´s a safe buy. The second hand market is propably good for a buyer due to new A6-model.

But a Subaru is not bad either.

The "Saab" built on subaru platform is a discgrace, a GM trick. If your looking for a Saab buy a 9-5 or 9-3. Proper frontwheel drive and built in Sweden.

/Mats

I suspect Auids are a fair bit pricier stateside than in their homeland. And Subies are probably cheaper here. In 5 years I might have the cash to sink into some nicer... for now I'm working in a budget.

[jason_watkins]

Unless you need the longer cargo area, it's pretty hard to beat the value of the saab stickered WRX at the moment.

While the non-turbo auto's arn't exactly a spirited drive, they're quite capable on the snow and such. Back when I hung around the rally folks in 99 and 00, a couple people rallycrossed in their auto legacies. They got the job done as far as low traction surfaces go.

I dunno the details on your durango, but suspect it's a locked differencial when in 4wd. I think you'll find the awd feels a bit more predictable on a slick road when you get on the throttle.

[Mike T]

Unless you need the longer cargo area, it's pretty hard to beat the value of the saab stickered WRX at the moment.

While the non-turbo auto's arn't exactly a spirited drive, they're quite capable on the snow and such.

Gotta have the cargo area for summer pursuits / big dog / etc. Anyway, if I want to test drive a Saabaru I would need to crash on your couch, 'cause the nearest dealer is in PDX!

[Derf]

You might want to look at this old thread also http://www.bomberonline.com/VBulletin/showthread.php?t=3075

[Bordy]

A.U.D.I.

great used prices( around or under 10K) for super fun to drive sedans and wagons if you like to go stupid fast in all conditions. Look into a S car Or a 20v,(some are as low as 3K) my 20v is made to opertate at higher elevations and is a rally car drivers dream it won, its class at Pikes peak several years, even the front end is shaped so you can bash through snow banks left by the plow! It was dirt cheap and I drive it as hard as I can and it does great.

[DrCR]

Saw this recently and thought I would post it after reading the Saab comments.

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Car and Driver's "10Best Winners and Losers", January 05

(Link)

LOSER: With the announcement of a Subaru-derived Saab 9-2X built in Japan and a Chevrolet-derived Saab 9-7X built in America, General Motors product czar "Maximum Bob" Lutz enraged devotees of the Swedish-made cars worldwide. In response, Lutz said, "There is nothing that says Saabs have to be made in Sweden."

"I reckon he's quite wrong about that," wrote a columnist for Britain's Autocar. "That's a grievous offense against authenticity—the commodity every buyer seeks these days, enthusiast or not."

"Oh, yeah?" Lutz shot back. "The Australian-built Holden GTO worked so well, why not an Ohio-built Saab?" [bob didn't actually say that. One of our editors made that up.]

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DrCR

[freecarver]

I was in between the Subary Outback and the Toyota Land Cruiser.

Finally I choose the Land Cruiser because it has more space and i found it more capable for off road kind of thinks as I'm gonna use it more of searching secret spots for wind surfing and kitesurfing than snow/ice conditions.

I also had in mind the V.W. Touareg but it turned out much more expensive especially if I want to add the pneumatic suspension wich is optional.

[Mike T]

Make sure you post pics of your new ride when you get it Mike.

Here it is! Gotta love those model-year-end prices. This is an '05 Outback XT Ltd., I could not tell the difference between an '05 and an '06 in any non-cosmetic ways.

[nekdut]

Mike,

Awesome choice! I take it you got the 2.5L Turbo, instead of the 3.0L H6?

Come check out the forums at http://legacygt.com/ for more information than you can imagine about the Leg/OB.

[Mike T]

Mike,

Awesome choice! I take it you got the 2.5L Turbo, instead of the 3.0L H6?

Come check out the forums at http://legacygt.com/ for more information than you can imagine about the Leg/OB.

Thanks - I've already been there, registered but haven't posted yet. I'll certainly be reading any and all threads over there concerning winter tires. None of the folks at the dealership had much to say, half of them said "you don't want winter tires" which I am inclined to not believe.

Yep, 2.5 Turbo. I wanted a stick :)

[mirror70]

I could not tell the difference between an '05 and an '06 in any non-cosmetic ways.

If it's like the LGT, the '06 isn't available with a stick.

You want winter tires, especially with an AWD vehicle. Tires let you turn and stop, AWD just raises the speed at which you hit things.

[Mike T]

If it's like the LGT, the '06 isn't available with a stick.

You want winter tires, especially with an AWD vehicle. Tires let you turn and stop, AWD just raises the speed at which you hit things.

The OXT '06 is , I believe, available in stick. Don't worry, I plan to research winter tires for my new ride thoroughly. My Durango need 'em badly, I assume this will be no different.