Recommendations for soft boots & bindings

[lamby]

Hi all, Wondering what people here might recommend for boots and bindings for soft boot carving, or soft boot all-mountain riding, including powder. Are some boots and bindings better for soft boot carving, but not so appropriate for powder days? I ride plates and hard boots in powder and enjoy it a ton, but would like to give a soft boot set up a try again. In the past, I used to ride a soft set up on some days at the resort, but have lately just stayed with hard boots. Not much snow here, and getting interested in mixing things up again.

[Cthulhufish]

The most important thing is fit. Beyond that, it's preference. Most people don't like riding 10/10 flex gear in powder, but I don't think it's a bad setup. I've ridden powder with Driver Xs and (old version) Cartels and been happy with it. I think carbon fiber bindings would have been a bit much in powder though.

I tend to think of medium-stiff flex gear as the safe choice for all-round equipment. I'm curious what other people think, considering this is an alpine focused forum.

[ShortcutToMoncton]

In general most hardbooter seem to enjoy stiffer boot setups. That probably makes sense for hard carving.

So if that makes sense to you, just look at the stiffest (and usually, most expensive) boots and bindings. 

 

[ShortcutToMoncton]

Burton Driver X 

Burton Ruler

Deeluxe Edge Pro

Ride Insano

Salomon Malamute

Nidecker Kita

K2 Thraxis

Vans Verse

I’m sure there are more, Jones has one I think… 

Edit—see also the Powerride boot topic, insert is sold on this site

Edited December 17, 2023 by ShortcutToMoncton

[Cthulhufish]

1 hour ago, ShortcutToMoncton said:

So if that makes sense to you, just look at the stiffest (and usually, most expensive) boots and bindings. 

I may or may not be guilty of looking up gear by searching by "Price: Descending".

[Rob Stevens]

Stiff bindings with standard flex softboots is a nice combo. 
The responsiveness is in the power transfer the bindings give you and the flexibility for powder is provided by the boots. 
For carving on hardpack, you’ll have to hold your ankles in place with internal force rather than external plastic, but you’ll have the flexibility to ride powder properly. 
Drake Podium FF and some well broken in Vans that were never really that stiff even out of the box are my setup.
With the boots, I will say that the back stay / “spoiler” has maintained its forward lean. 

Edited December 17, 2023 by Rob Stevens

[Rusty Edges]

I've been running Malamutes with Flow NX2 bindings on my Pentaquark and Endeavor Carver. 

I like the internal ankle hold-down strap in the 'Mutes.  You can soften up the upper lacing but still have good heel hold for softer and pow days.

Just picked up a set of Power Ride insert tongues to try this year.

Cheers, Trev

[dhamann]

12 hours ago, Rusty Edges said:

I like the internal ankle hold-down strap in the 'Mutes.  You can soften up the upper lacing but still have good heel hold for softer and pow days.

the K2 thraxis has a third boa for internal heel hold. my previous boot with SBC liner and booster strap.

deeluxe edge pro has internal harness. this is my current boot and believe it is the stiffest overall stock boot out there. plastic sewed into shell tongue, etc. top cuff is a little difficult to get snug, but some movement is welcomed. for less movement and more stiffness, that's a hard boot. POWERRIDE increases stiffness/support too.

thirtytwo Jones MTB has internal harness. just saw a review of Jones' equipment with fawcett on this boot (TM-2 Jones, not the Jones MTB). tribute lounge, u tube. look it up. he prefers the use the harness to hold ankle down and keep top of boot a little loose for movement similar to how Rusty describes. it's a no budget, may need financing kind of boot. geesh.

it really boils down to personal preference, other equipment, terrain, etc. but i prefer the most support i can get without going to hard boots. free carve and free ride is the style i prefer to focus on these days. my body doesn't really allow for tweaked out grabs very well anymore, but still has the ability to carve. i get the equipment that suits this specific style. the overall does everything well equipment has it's drawbacks if the rider prefers to focus carving IMO. lean towards what you'll do 80% of the time and not 20%. for myself being located in New England, there's not a whole lot of powder or soft conditions so why get equipment that rips in powder and big mountain that can "carve"? i ride lifts at a resort with groomed trails. it's what works best for me.

bindings too, huh? the flux xv is the stiffest softboot binding that i know of. for variable and softer conditions, i'd steer clear of this one. everything else is game. the flux cv is more foregiving of a highback with a higher heel cup; greater lateral support/response in theory. the jones apollo is a step down with regards to response/stiffness from xv, but also on the stiff and responsive side of the spectrum. they're more friendly of a daily driver than the xv if the rider gets in a lot of days. the NOW odrive is no longer. the drive cx is what replaced the odrive. seems a bit more forgiving than odrive. consider the terrain the promoters are riding the majority of the time. i tried a union binding years ago (6-7?) with a carbon highback and broke on my second or third run at the highback connection to base. taking laps before a race day. ruined my day. this may have been the atlas fc. i forget. people seem to like the atlas pro. they look good with the newer design and absorbent base plate. consider base plate design for lateral forces/movement, ankle strap and highback. don't be scared of a non-rotatable highback. i run 36/15 in general and never felt like i needed to rotate the highback on the odrive, but do prefer the curved highback on the apollo. this highback is not as stiff as the flux xv. i tried the Ride A10 a couple years ago and some people like them. i did not! the highbacks were stiff, but not much support with the angles i run. aluminum base plate does not break. it bends, and the body may not be able to absorb these forces. something to consider. the ankle strap was nauseating to be considered on this binding. so much R&D with Ride and kind of disappointing to come to this conclusion, but this is just my take. like i said, some people like them. again, boils down to personal preference. hope this feeback helps make your decision. happy carving!

Edited December 17, 2023 by dhamann
thirtytwo boot correction

[lamby]

Such great advice all around! Thanks carving community. I've read through it once and will go back and take some notes.

[lamby]

notes:

Cthulhufish (Colorado):

Emphasizes the importance of fit for boots and suggests that beyond that, it's mostly a matter of personal preference.

Shares positive experiences riding powder with Driver X boots and old version Cartels, but notes that carbon fiber bindings might be too much for powder.

ShortcutToMoncton (Toronto):

Recommends looking for the stiffest boots and bindings, typically the most expensive ones, particularly for someone comfortable in hard boots for powder. Provides a list of specific boot models, including Burton Driver X, Burton Ruler, Deeluxe Edge Pro, Ride Insano, Salomon Malamute, Nidecker Kita, K2 Thraxis, and Vans Verse.

Rob Stevens (Banff, Canada):

Suggests combining stiff bindings with standard flex soft boots for a nice balance.

Points out that the responsiveness comes from the power transfer of bindings, while the flexibility for powder is provided by the boots.

Recommends Drake Podium FF bindings, which work well with his well-broken-in Vans boots.

Rusty Edges (Vancouver):

Shares personal setup using Salomon Malamutes with Flow NX2 bindings on Pentaquark and Endeavor Carver boards.

Likes the internal ankle hold-down strap in the Malamutes for softening upper lacing on softer and powder days.

Mentions trying Power Ride insert tongues for experimentation.

dhamann (Milford, NH):

Provides insights into various boots with internal ankle harness/hold-down strap, including K2 Thraxis, Deeluxe Edge Pro, and thirtytwo Jones MTB.

Emphasizes personal preference and the importance of selecting equipment based on riding style, terrain, and conditions.

Gives recommendations for stiff soft boot bindings, including Flux XV, Flux CV, Jones Apollo, and NOW O-Drive.

[ShortcutToMoncton]

I hope that was AI generated……

One more thing is width and boot overhang, to avoid boot out when carving. Some boots and bindings are longer than others. Depending on your foot size and board width that could be a consideration. For feet size 9/42 and large, board waist widths under 26cm will need moderately high stance angles to avoid boot out.

Unfortunate I don’t think boot makers generally publish the total exterior sole length. You kind of have to compare. 

The Flow NX2 bindings do not have a lower heel cup, and as result they have slightly less heel bulk than some other models. Something to consider.

[ShortcutToMoncton]

17 hours ago, Cthulhufish said:

I may or may not be guilty of looking up gear by searching by "Price: Descending".

I say it’s pointless to waste time scrolling through all this perfectly fine equipment — just take me directly to the “sucker born every minute section” please…….

[lamby]

1 hour ago, ShortcutToMoncton said:

I hope that was AI generated……

 

It was AI generated.

 

1 hour ago, ShortcutToMoncton said:

One more thing is width and boot overhang, to avoid boot out when carving. Some boots and bindings are longer than others. Depending on your foot size and board width that could be a consideration. For feet size 9/42 and large, board waist widths under 26cm will need moderately high stance angles to avoid boot out.

Unfortunate I don’t think boot makers generally publish the total exterior sole length. You kind of have to compare. 

The Flow NX2 bindings do not have a lower heel cup, and as result they have slightly less heel bulk than some other models. Something to consider.

Thanks Sc2M, Will keep board width and boot overhang in mind when considering which way to go. 

 

58 minutes ago, ShortcutToMoncton said:

“sucker born every minute section” please…….

I'll likely end up in our local snowboard shop and I've been a sucker for their sales pitches in the past. Those purchases have always worked out well for me though - solid advice there. So, taking some good advice here and listening to what the owners and staff at the store have to offer should help keep me out of too much trouble.

[lamby]

I appreciate that I should really consider the type of riding I hope to be doing. I'm 66 and no longer carving hard. I carve around a bit, in easier terrain, but a lot of skidded riding. I would love to lay it over more, but some nagging injuries are keeping me from pushing back into that style of riding. I'm still loving snowboarding and am very happy to be up there in all kinds of conditions, in a hard boot set up.

If I am able to put together a soft set up I will likely use it now and then to break things up after a number of days of hard boot riding, or if we get new snow and I want to use my softboot set up for a powder day. Or I can imagine that I may gravitate to using my soft boots more and more. We'll see.

Thanks everyone for your input and advice. I've been poking around on the sites of many of the recommended brands and models. Having fun. Best, lamby/Chris

[JohnE]

I really LOVE my combo: Nidecker (Flow) Talon boots (not sure they're available anymore) and Nidecker (Flow) NX2-GT bindings. Easy in/out. The boots are really comfy. The heel hold down is great without being too tight. 

[jburk]

What's this year's equivalent of the Flow NX2-GT? The NX2-Carbon? And I can see the difference between the straps on the Fusion and Hybrid variants, but do those come down to personal preference, or is there a functional difference? 

[JohnE]

I think that I got the Fusions. And I believe that the new version is the NX2-Carbon.

 

My riding buddy got some Deeluxe soft boots. He really likes them. 

[jburk]

55 minutes ago, JohnE said:

My riding buddy got some Deeluxe soft boots. He really likes them. 

I've managed to score a set of Deeluxe Daemons with the Thermo (CTF) liners, but also have a set of SBCs left over from my UPZs that I may try in them.

Now I just need a board and bindings, looking around for an SG Soul 159 (mp26 boots, so I don't think it will be too narrow). 

As for bindings, with the Flows, can you lock in the highbacks without having to sit down?  If I never have to sit down to get into a pair of bindings again, it will be too soon.

[dhamann]

34 minutes ago, jburk said:

looking around for an SG Soul 159

http://i-carve.com/outlet/snowboard_outlet contact Ivan to confirm inventory.

maybe consider the soul surf 64 if you want wider and if you plan to lay it down on the belly or just want the security. it's the same running length (essentially effective edge) as 59 soul. great board for PNW.

[jburk]

Thanks, all good advice.  I've sent Ivan a request for pricing yesterday, waiting to hear back.

I've got mp26.5 boots, so betting that that 25.5cm waist on the 159 Soul will be a good fit for me.  Since this will be the first SB board I've been on since the early 90s, I thought it might be better to err on the side of downsizing.  At 170lbs, I'm hoping that the 159 will be plenty wide if I get it into anything deep enough to float, and the shorter SCR on the Surf 164 (8.8m) is also steering me towards the 9.75m Soul 159. 

[crackaddict]

1 hour ago, jburk said:

with the Flows, can you lock in the highbacks without having to sit down?

Absolutely yes.   

I bought a pair of the Flow NX-2 Carbons this fall because I have an arm injury and I thought a binding that I could operate with one hand would be best.  It's a good binding, not my favourite, but it's very stiff with boot crushing ratchets.  Excellent choice for SB carving.

Also, and importantly, this binding has the best clearance of anything on the market with a very high highback, no heel cup at all, and an over-the-toe configuration up front.

21 minutes ago, jburk said:

I've got mp26.5 boots, so betting that that 25.5cm waist on the 159 Soul will be a good fit

Not even close.  That's a good fast transitioning waist width for BX but not for freecarving. 

I suggest 1-2cm wider in the waist than your Mondo Point size for intermediate carving and 3-4cm wider for advanced/elite carving.  These figures can be adjusted for things like the firmness of the surface, steepness of the slope, stance angles, and whether you plan to use risers.   

You'll be disappointed very quickly with a waist smaller than your MP boot; it will severely limit how tight you can turn.

 

[jburk]

7 minutes ago, crackaddict said:

I suggest 1-2cm wider in the waist than your Mondo Point size for intermediate carving and 3-4cm wider for advanced/elite carving.

Got it.  So you're saying that the largest SG Soul 64XT with a 28cm waist is pretty much limited to intermediate carving for anyone with a mp27 boot or smaller, and too narrow for almost everyone who's an advanced SB carver?

Are these boards sized at the waist for someone currently riding softboots and getting into carving, rather than someone who's already carving an alpine board?

[dhamann]

jones freecarver 9000. 156 or 160?

i love my soul 64xt with 29 mondo, but also use gecko plates. intermediate or not, this works for the firmer conditions typically encountered in my neck of the woods. if it is softer and the carves tend to trench more, then additional width is welcomed to help limit boot drag. however, tradeoff can be handling and quicker edge to edge may be compromised. crack climbing core strength recommended. gravity and physics. standard rec's for width can be so objective to each rider based on preferences, style, abilities, terrain, angles, plates, etc.. what works for one, may not for another. gotta start somewhere though. i don't know if AI can help. getting some feedback from other carvers should help you make the best decision for you, based on your experience with alpine boards.

[crackaddict]

6 hours ago, jburk said:

So you're saying that the largest SG Soul 64XT with a 28cm waist is pretty much limited to intermediate carving for anyone with a mp27 boot or smaller, and too narrow for almost everyone who's an advanced SB carver?

Well yeah... 

But I might say 'advanced SB freecarver' or 'advanced pencil line carver'.  Thing is, there really aren't that many of us.  Outside of this crew, who else is leaving great tracks on real black diamonds?

As @Rob Stevens was reputed to have somewhere just yesterday: "The market is perfectly balanced for its needs.  Most of the boards made are for beginners and intermediates."   I might add: 'even most of those boards marketed to advanced riders'.

(How do you quote from another thread?)

So that 28 waisted SG (9.75scr right?) would fit an intermediate carver with a size 27 Mondo boot or an advanced intermediate with a size 26 on green and blue terrain.  They would both have to get risers and go to steep angles, low BSL boots and low profile bindings to leave a pencil line track on a black diamond and they would both wish their board was wider as they fight hard to resist the boot out.  And they wouldn't care how their boards handled in powder because these are serious carvers facing serious consequences with potential for catastrophic high speed boot out when they're carving steep black diamonds and they don't have a lot of room for compromises in their equipment.

The point is that yes, that "high performance" SG is marketed as an expert/elite level board but there aren't many expert/elite riders so it's built for intermediate carvers coming up from that all mountain Burton.  Those guys are sure to be impressed.

 

 

Edited December 19, 2023 by crackaddict

[jburk]

A realistic assessment of my current skill level on hardboots probably places me at either intermediate or even "expert beginner".  I seem to have spiralled downwards over the last few seasons due to crappy fitness and summer injuries and an accumulation of bad habits from accommodating those limitations. 

Giving SB carving a shot as a way to break out of these bad habits, cut back on my speed, and focus on fundamentals again. Hard to slow down on hardboots when I'm used to going at least half-warp speed. 

So rather than start out on a SB board that will be suited for black diamond, I went for the one I think I can progress quickly on and probably reach the limits of within one season, then reevaluate if I want to get Mark to build me a custom Thirst for SB carving and move the board along for someone else to try, or drop SB altogether and sell board, boots and bindings. 

Pulled the pin on the 159 Soul. At 9.75m it's a decently long sidecut (164 is 10.75m), and with Ivan selling it to me at a good discount off based on what appears to be the 18/19 season pricing, I won't have to take that much of a beating if/when I put it up on the F/S board in a season or two, and my loss can be someone else's gain. 

Planning on mitigating any width issues experienced by choice of bindings (flow NX2-Carbon) and binding angles. If I reach the limits of this setup within one season I'll consider it a success. 

 

Edited December 20, 2023 by jburk
Incomplete cross-thread posting instructions removed - use the "+" multi-quote widget from the source post instead