Sharp edges

[JohnE]

For a recreational rider (non-racer) who rides mostly on non-hardpack, non-ice conditions: How much difference does a recent base and edge grind really make? 

Has anyone started a season with edges from the last day of the previous season and then had a tune up and gone back to nearly the same conditions? Can you really tell the difference? 

My edges are pretty sharp but have at least 300 runs on them on fairly soft Colorado snow. 

[slopestar]

Boards get:

• cleaned with citrus based cleaner.
• bindings removed or seriously loosened.
• sharpened edges/base/
  • boards that have seen a lot of days especially spring snow, leave base imperfections. I will wet sand with a block, using 800-1200gri (poor man's base grind)
• Storage wax- all temp wax chalked on using hot Iron and bar
  • Then heated tip to tail, then tail to tip
• Scrape, buff, ride
  • of course add or tighten bindings

[SunSurfer]

1 hour ago, JohnE said:

For a recreational rider (non-racer) who rides mostly on non-hardpack, non-ice conditions: How much difference does a recent base and edge grind really make? 

Has anyone started a season with edges from the last day of the previous season and then had a tune up and gone back to nearly the same conditions? Can you really tell the difference? 

My edges are pretty sharp but have at least 300 runs on them on fairly soft Colorado snow. 

Not seen any hard science to answer your question about a recreational rider.

Carving in snow soft enough to leave a distinct groove/trench it's the lateral 2-5cm of board base pushing against the sidewall of the groove that is supporting the rider, rather than a sharp edge engaging with a hard snow surface. At the end of a good days carving I can see where the wax has been rubbed off on the base lateral strip, with the middle looking almost untouched.

I ride in mostly mixed conditions with occasional patches of hard snow and thaw/refreeze weather conditions (lucky you!). I can tell whether my edges are sharp (4 degree edge, 0 degree base) when I hit that stuff, but good technique is an essential accompaniment in those moments.

Maybe wax the base often, but only sharpen when you feel the edge is no longer smooth, or you notice that grip is starting to feel off. That way you minimise the wear on the steel edges from tuning.

[Odd Job]

Almost none. I barely notice much of a difference on water injected (early season East Village at Copper, when the water injected slope is open to the public... I can still carve it on softboots with a far duller edge than what racers have on). A hardbooter asked me how often I sharpened my edges... said the last time was like 2 weeks ago. They saw me carve down the shitstorm that is East Village Copper, early season.

Edge hold is balancing on a ledge of snow. Ice supports a lot of pressure but the ledge to balance on is super small. On even water injected, you can take your bare fingernail and scrape a groove into it. Sharper edges do help of course, but is not 100% mandatory to hold an edge.

Edited October 18, 2023 by Odd Job

[Kneel]

"Water-injected" snow?  Early season rock encounters are probably the only thing you have to look out for, but that is usually not a problem post Dec. 1. Wax, scrape, gummy stone and go. Shit. I bet the boards I left at my sons house in BV don't even have the slightest edge discoloration/deformation/dulling even while left bare over the summer, whereas my boards here on the water-injected and ice-locked slopes of the east coast have edges that are the color of ponderosa pine bark and almost as sharp.  They require constant attention if you want to stay on the skinny side. 

[Odd Job]

3 hours ago, Kneel said:

"Water-injected" snow?  Early season rock encounters are probably the only thing you have to look out for, but that is usually not a problem post Dec. 1. Wax, scrape, gummy stone and go. Shit. I bet the boards I left at my sons house in BV don't even have the slightest edge discoloration/deformation/dulling even while left bare over the summer, whereas my boards here on the water-injected and ice-locked slopes of the east coast have edges that are the color of ponderosa pine bark and almost as sharp.  They require constant attention if you want to stay on the skinny side. 

Yeah. East Village is where the US Ski team trains on early season. Then they open that run to the masses and it's not soft,

You can see the b-nets off to the side that automatically go down. I can only imagine how much air they get training on that. Freaking nuts.

[Kneel]

Water-injected, duh. I'm slow. The race area. That's right. They pump water onto and under the turns so they hold up. Off Andy's, Ore Deal or Overload.  Yeah, made that mistake once. It's quite firm on the course setting areas.  Those are fun carving trails too.  Silly racers ruining it for everyone...

[kitejumping]

I usually run 0 degree base and a 5 degree side edge.  The 5 degree side feels amazing when it's fresh but still debating if there is enough of a difference vs a 3 degree side to go with a 5 since it doesn't stay sharp as long.  Super sharp edges for me turn mediocre snow days or ice days into hero snow, it's just so much smoother of a feeling slicing through the hardback with super sharp edges and knowing that when you stop a rotation and lock in the edge its not going to unexpectedly break away on you.  Same with pushing the carves harder and using higher edge angles.  I have my own sharpening tools though and usually redo the edges every week or two depending on how much I'm riding.  Can't comment on base maintenance since I apply DPS phantom when the board is new with no wax then do pretty much nothing (no wax needed) for the life of the board.  If the snow is dirty in the spring occasionally I brush the dirt out to refresh the phantom treatment.  

Edited November 2, 2023 by kitejumping

[slabber]

1 hour ago, kitejumping said:

  Can't comment on base maintenance since I apply DPS phantom when the board is new with no wax then do pretty much nothing (no wax needed) for the life of the board.  If the snow is dirty in the spring occasionally I brush the dirt out to refresh the phantom treatment.  

Did you apply at home?  Is it really that good? 

For boards previously waxed, any recommendations on how to clean?  I just took a look at their site and looks like application kits are available for Canadians from MEC.  

[kitejumping]

21 minutes ago, slabber said:

Did you apply at home?  Is it really that good? 

For boards previously waxed, any recommendations on how to clean?  I just took a look at their site and looks like application kits are available for Canadians from MEC.  

I've been running it since the kickstarter in 2017, based on epic app tracking have about 6 million vertical feet on it since then across many boards.  V1 was good enough, applied it on all my boards with the kits, V2 was better, faster in all temps and I think significantly faster in warm spring conditions than any all temp wax I have ever used (although when I used to trade boards with RK at breck his temp specific waxes were slightly faster).  V3 I heard had some application issues so on my new board last season opted for a shop that still had some v2 stock.  Since they came out with phantom cure boxes at shops I just have them apply it as it's usually only about 20 bucks extra vs doing it yourself and I'm not sure how well the kits would cover the huge area of my boards.  The biggest difference is consistency on long days of 30k vert, it feels exactly the same at the end of the day vs the start, whereas normal wax can wear off and the edges get sticky by the end of the day.  You can also wax over it and still get the benefits of wax till it wears off, but in general it's good enough where I never bother waxing.  

Initially, with the kits I used a base cleaner before doing it followed by isopropyl alcohol, but I think they typically recommend a stone grind now before applying it so it really soaks in.  The hard part with applying it yourself in winter is it needs a long cure time with bright sunlight and non freezing temps.  

Here's a video of me riding with phantom on my board. 

https://youtu.be/zHss4j2v1pg

Edited November 2, 2023 by kitejumping

[slabber]

Thanks for that - yes, saw the cure boxes on the site, need to read up more.  Not sure if there are any cure box equipped shops near me.  

[i8summer]

Whatever u do don’t do like this guy !