longboards ... T-boards ... carving on pavement

[fin]

Skategoat,

Totally agree on the springs. The board is fantastic.....as long as you keep it in its speed zone. As it is currently set-up you do NOT want to go much faster then the recommended 15mph.

Your conclusions are the same as our, if you want to go a bit faster and really work the turn the board is too soft. How ever, the springs are really easy to swap and I have some test ones on the way. Will let you know how it goes.

At the same time, too stiff is what I have not liked about other "long boards". They tend to be happiest going mach-zoom. Then if you do lower the rate the wheels can come in contact with the deck. Boing.

The Carve Board seems to be the best option right now for purley carving a turn, but not the best if you need more speed. We'll see what the stiffer spring do.

[lonerider]

Originally posted by skategoat

Fin:

Stiffer springs are the way to go. My only complaint about the Carveboard is that it is a too turny. It's great for simulating the freeride cross through turns. But, when it comes to high G, GS-type turns, the board doesn't cut it. It acts like a way-too-soft snowboard and can throw you over the high side. Been there, done that in front of a large group of people.

Henry

My thoughts exactly. The carveboard max speed is 15 mph (the instruction manual specifically warns you not to exceed this speed).

Originally posted by fin

Lonerider: I have to admit I have not had a chance to try the Dirtsurfer but it does look amazing and worth a try. My question is, does it allow you to achieve the 2 goals I have outlines up top? Two wheel definitely has its advantages for this. Pictures? I need to get on one and try it.

1. Yes you can definitely do a J-turn.

2. You can get as much board lean as the carveboard (about 45 degrees). There are photos of people laid out on a carveboard (at 45 degree) like the one you just posted, but my guess is that is they there are either going really slow (15 mph), going into a slide, and/or posing for the photo. I've down a laid out carve like the one Fin posted using Randy's Carveboard... but it is ultra tight (turn radius is 8 feet or less) and you can't go more than say 12 mph at the extreme board lean - meaning someone could run down the hill faster than you. Now I'm not a speed-demon myself... but < 12 mph just is a little slow for me.

As people are having trouble finding infomation from the Dirtsurfer website, I'll help up and dig up some photos.

Some deeper carves:

High speed carves:

The silver frames at the standard GP model... the green one is the pricey flexiboard model that has higher clearance (and hence get get even higher board angles)

[Tommy D]

Originally posted by Cindy Kleh

So, what is the ultimate longboard ride on the market right that fits the average Josephine's budget?

Hi. My answer to that question is a Loaded Pintail longboard, with Siesmic trucks and Flashbacks. IIRC, a complete deck goes for under $200USD.

Also check out Insect and Subsonic.

Awesome summer carving setup.

I have also demo'd a CarveBoard for a few days, and that is a LOT of fun too. A nice carving experience. The problem with a CarveBoard is that it is HEAVY, and not suited to throwing in the trunk; I like to leave my Pintail in the car so it's available wherever I am. :)

[Tommy D]

Originally posted by fin

To me, IF the goal is to simulate snowboard, hardboot carving there are two criteria that must be met:

1) Allows you to not only finish a turn but do the classic "J" turn that lets you carve back up hill

2) Allows you to achieve high angles of inclination (ie. lay it over, baby!)

I can perform both of these on my longboard; no risers needed, and no wheel bite! :D Mind you, I'm not inclinating nearly as much as i can on my snowboard, but I'm still leaning over pretty far. I have really grippy Avilon slalom wheels that don't break loose until I tell them to. And, I have a larger range of speed I can work with, unlike the Carveboard.

My Seismic trucks use springs, not unlike the Carveboard, and there are a bunch of different spring weights, and each spring can be preloaded, too.

[lonerider]

Originally posted by Tommy D

I can perform both of these on my longboard; no risers needed, and no wheel bite! :D Mind you, I'm not inclinating nearly as much as i can on my snowboard, but I'm still leaning over pretty far. I have really grippy Avilon slalom wheels that don't break loose until I tell them to. And, I have a larger range of speed I can work with, unlike the Carveboard.

My Seismic trucks use springs, not unlike the Carveboard, and there are a bunch of different spring weights, and each spring can be preloaded, too.

I too can perform both of these on a longboard. I have the Loaded Vanguard with R2-180s, springy Radikal bushings (totally different feel from most normal bushings) and grippy Grippins slalom wheels. Riding my Loaded longboards is my favorite summer sport right now... BUT isn't as close to the feel of riding a snowboard as a Dirtsurfer (I hope that point is clear). If you asked me what should you be doing this summer - I would say ride a Loaded longboard. But I think the question was "what is the closest thing to alpine snowboarding?"

I agree that Fin's criteria is incomplete. You also need

3. The ability to reach similar speeds to an alpine snowboard.

The Loaded longboards have a larger range of speed, but even they are still limited to around 25-30 mph max - with most people going 15-20 mph at most.

[Tommy D]

Yeah, I'm not going much faster than 15mph carving my Loaded.

I'd love to give the Dirtsurfer a try, and I think the school field near my house is a perfect spot for it, too!

LoanRider, I'll be happy to agree with all your statements if you ship a DirtSurfer out for me for demo. :D

Of course, I don't disagree with you, as I've only been on longboards and the CarveBoard.

[philistine]

TommyD-

It's good to hear you're enjoying the Pintail. How are the Avilons holding up? Have you gotten into coleman style slides yet?

I got a pair of sliding gloves the other day and I love the deep carving that is possible, especially on steep hills. I've already worn out the butt on a pair of jeans.

However, the other day I was riding my skateboard a little bit too much like a snowboard. I was my upper body was too upright, and I was leaning wayyyy too much. This was on a frontside turn, about 15 miles per hour. Lost traction to the point of no return. wipeout... This would have been no big deal but I had a large skate tool in my pocket and it hurt my leg very badly. Oh well...

have a safe summer!

[Tommy D]

Originally posted by philistine

TommyD-

It's good to hear you're enjoying the Pintail. How are the Avilons holding up? Have you gotten into coleman style slides yet?

I got a pair of sliding gloves the other day and I love the deep carving that is possible, especially on steep hills. I've already worn out the butt on a pair of jeans.

However, the other day I was riding my skateboard a little bit too much like a snowboard. I was my upper body was too upright, and I was leaning wayyyy too much. This was on a frontside turn, about 15 miles per hour. This would have been no big deal but I had a large skate tool in my pocket and it hurt my leg very badly. Oh well...

have a safe summer!

Yeah, Man! Thanks for the feedback: The Pin is AWESOME! Perfect for those midnight soul-carving sessions and hard-carving romps in the parking lot!

The Avilons are holding up great! I've been using Flashbacks too, and I think I like the overall ride of the Flashbacks on my Pin better than the Avilons. The Flashies seem to provide better feedback and more predictable handling. But the grip from the Avilons...Grip, grip, grip!

My shortlist for future longbards:

Loaded Vanguard (And/Or a new Pin when mine wears out!)

Subsonic Swift 38

Insect Cutaway

No Colemans' for me, but I have been getting the Flashies to slide a bit in harder carves. I really need to make some slide gloves so I can get real low; my wrist guards are nice, but my exposed fingers will get chewed up.

EDIT: Phil, I just noticed you are in Denver ... Do you hit those garage sessions with Mark from Mile High, et al? I need to find a garage; they look like too much fun.

[D-Sub]

all those pics look really fun, even the uggly dirtsurfer

stance is so narrow! not a problem I guess?

cant say I wouldnt ride one if given the opp

[skategoat]

The thing I love about the Carveboard is the pneumatic tires. They grip beautifully and (the best part), they soak up surface imperfections including pebbles. Whenever I've ridden a traditional longboard, my feet are numb afterwards.

Are there wheel options on traditional skateboard trucks that offer some dampening?

[philistine]

I was looking over my last post and realized I forgot to mention that I fell hard while making that frontside turn. That's why the skate tool hurt me.

TommyD- I have been talking to the Mile High Rollers guys. They are very cool, unfortunately I have been out of town for both of their garage sessions.

Garages are definitely the best, always downhill. The best part is, you can usually take an elevator to the top of the hill. ;)

[Neil Gendzwill]

Originally posted by skategoat

Are there wheel options on traditional skateboard trucks that offer some dampening?

Just get yourself some big mushy cruisin' wheels, a set of big Abec11s in 75A will suck up most of the noise.

[SWriverstone]

Though I own a Dirtsurfer, I'm far from reaching it's potential. (Been busy with a little hang gliding accident...:) ) But---at risk of being repetitive---SPEED+STABILITY+SECURITY is what makes the Dirtsurfer awesome.

Consider this: I was petrified to go more than 10mph on my Insect Dragonfly (skateboard). Scared the hell outta me, especially being a skateboard newbie with zero stopping skills.

The first time I got on the Dirtsurfer (and I mean literally the first time), I started coasting down a hill. When I reached 7-10mph, I leaned back on the brake...and gently, smoothly slowed down. I can't even describe what an incredible sense of security that gave me!

The next run (my second run---ever!) I was pushing 20mph...and feeling fine. The faster the Dirtsurfer went, the more stable it became---exactly like a bicycle.

I honestly can't comment on the deep-carve ability of the Dirtsurfer yet, because I haven't started pushing that aspect of it. So far I've been having too much of a blast just giant-slaloming down roads for a mile!

The other beauty of the Dirtsurfer is that on asphalt, it is almost as smooth as riding powder. You don't feel every little dimple and pebble or stick on the road...you just g-l-i-d-e right over that stuff.

ALSO: on that same first day of riding, I went to a local park with cut-grass hills, hopped on the Dirtsurfer, and went tearing down a grass hill without even a bobble---very cool! Then I tried it on a dirt construction road that had been corrugated by Caterpillar D-9 treads...once again, a little bumpy...but the Dirtsurfer cruised right over that stuff!

So...as has been said above...if you're after something that comes closest to approximating the speed and smoothness of carving on snow, you can't beat the Dirtsurfer!

Scott

[philistine]

Scott, it sounds like you've fallen for the dirtsurfer! I have been checking out their Road Racers, basically the same thing as the dirt surfer but with racing tires. Those things look bad as heck! I wish I could afford one. As soon as they get cheaper I'll be saving up for one.

How easy is it to maintain the dirt surfer? The hubs are sealed am I right? I don't know if you're big on bicycle tech stuff, but how well are the wheels built? Do they come out of true very easily? From what I've seen on the web pages, they seem like they are made pretty well!

[skatha]

Woo, this post really took off-I myself got a Sector 9 flexydeck this spring-46" long.

The good part-I can throw on elbow pads, wrist guards, and helmet and skate to the small hill leading into the bayou when I want. The deck ran me about $150 on USOutdoor.com-came with the wheels and the trucks, too.

As for freaking out on the concrete-I know what you mean, Cindy-I'm 41 years old and my job doesn't have sick time! But it was only completely terrifying the first time:cool:

The nice thing-I can get the "fix" just by grabbing my deck and skating 10 minutes to my hill.

Bad thing-it's 95 degrees down here and I have a hard time imagining snow!

As for dirtsurfers, I think I'd rather bike-no offense Scott-How's Holly, BTW???

I looked into Freebords, mountain boards, etc. last year and decided that the longboard was best for my situation

As for stopping, Scott-I just jump off!!!!

Ahh, so much for purity of technique....

Who needs them freakin' brakes???

[D-Sub]

Originally posted by skatha

As for stopping, Scott-I just jump off!!!!

oh crikey. just wait til you do that at a speed faster than your legs can stay under you!

god I wish I had film of my last drunken 3am hill sesh, and pics of the flesh loss, too

that was a good one:)

[lonerider]

Originally posted by skatha

The nice thing-I can get the "fix" just by grabbing my deck and skating 10 minutes to my hill.

Bad thing-it's 95 degrees down here and I have a hard time imagining snow!

As for stopping, Scott-I just jump off!!!!

Ahh, so much for purity of technique....

Who needs them freakin' brakes??? [/b]

I agree Skatha, being able to just keep my longboard in my car and ride it whenever... during my lunch break, after work... is a BIG reason why I prefer it over the Dirtsurfer.

You just jump off?!? Needless to say, I don't personally find that a very good idea in the long run (especially for your joints).

[skatha]

Originally posted by lonerider

I agree Skatha, being able to just keep my longboard in my car and ride it whenever... during my lunch break, after work... is a BIG reason why I prefer it over the Dirtsurfer.

You just jump off?!? Needless to say, I don't personally find that a very good idea in the long run for you joints if you are riding down hills.

I'm living on borrowed time anyway for my right knee- had my first complete reconstruction at age 17....:D

[lonerider]

Originally posted by skatha

I'm living on borrowed time anyway for my right knee- had my first complete reconstruction at age 17....:D

Interesting strategy... I have already injured my joints badly... so no point in taking care of them now! :)

Seriously though, if you ever start riding with a little bit of speed down a hill, footbraking, while not the best, can save you and your board some serious crashes should a car decide to appear a bit down the hill from you.

[skatha]

So far-it's the flats for me...my little hill is about 100 yards long and greenie steep-nothing too hairy.....

If I ever find some blue type hills, then I'll focus more on technique

[NateW]

I agree on a longboard with Seismic trucks as a cost-effective way to carve (The carveboard trucks actually look very similar in operation to Seismics). Traction is the limiting factor for me though - it's like carving smooth ice... it works fine up to a point, then gets problematic.

The pneumatic tires of the dirtsurfer and carveboard are intriguing though, have you guys compared them to big soft urethane wheels?

[lonerider]

Originally posted by NateW

I agree on a longboard with Seismic trucks as a cost-effective way to carve (The carveboard trucks actually look very similar in operation to Seismics). Traction is the limiting factor for me though - it's like carving smooth ice... it works fine up to a point, then gets problematic.

The pneumatic tires of the dirtsurfer and carveboard are intriguing though, have you guys compared them to big soft urethane wheels?

While they have superficial similarities in that they both use springs, I think a great deal more R&D was put into the giving Seismic springs a progressive resistance whereas the Carveboard springs have the simple linear spring coefficients you probably slept through in high school math. Basically you can't load up a Carveboard with much energy, so you don't get that much of a "pump" of it them like you do a Seismic. I'm not a trained engineer so I can't explain it very well, but if you just put the trucks side by side, you will see.

I've ridden super soft, large wheels like the 3DM Avilas or the ABEC11 Flywheels which are as tall as your hand. While they are smooth and roll over rough surfaces great for a longboard wheel - they are simply no comparison to inflated rubber tires on the Carveboard and Dirtsurfer. The Dirtsurfer in particular uses any 20" standard bicycle wheel. Even without shocks (only available in the flexboard model) you can ride over rocks, sewer grade, curbs, soft gravel, dirt, down stairs...

[dantheman0177]

Fin,

Those things are pretty close to carving, but yeah, they are not built for speed. Still, you can lean it over.

We have a couple of very similar boards that a mate brought back from China. We ride them down the hills on my parent's farm and that is pretty good fun, carve wise. We have also been towing each other behind the dirt bike and carving off the bank of a dam, and that is good, though a world of pain if you come off. One of the boys has some video, so I might try and get some stills to post if they work.

Personally though, surfing is the go. Get a good longboard with some nice stiff fins, a jetski, towrope and a mate and do tow-ins. You get so much extra speed into the wave that you can really lay down the first bottom turn. A much better way to spend summer (if you live near the beach anyway).

Dan

[SWriverstone]

Originally posted by dantheman0177

Personally though, surfing is the go. Get a good longboard with some nice stiff fins, a jetski, towrope and a mate and do tow-ins.

Oh, man...that's IT! Why didn't I think of that? :) :) All I need is a jetski and a constant companion! :) Just kidding Dan! I'd love to try it someday...we just watched the documentary "Riding Giants" on DVD...HOLY COW!!! I was totally blown away. I hate to tell you guys, but after seeing "Riding Giants," nobody---I repeat, NOBODY---on earth doing any sport is even close to being as cool as those guys! <smile>

Scott

[SWriverstone]

Originally posted by philistine

Scott, it sounds like you've fallen for the dirtsurfer! I have been checking out their Road Racers, basically the same thing as the dirt surfer but with racing tires. Those things look bad as heck! I wish I could afford one. As soon as they get cheaper I'll be saving up for one.

How easy is it to maintain the dirt surfer? The hubs are sealed am I right? I don't know if you're big on bicycle tech stuff, but how well are the wheels built? Do they come out of true very easily? From what I've seen on the web pages, they seem like they are made pretty well!

Unfortunately, I don't know much about the details of Dirtsurfer construction. It certainly seems well-built from what I can see---nothing cheesy about it. Very solid. I haven't ridden it enough (or hard enough) for the wheels to come out of true.

One thing, the Dirtsurfer wheel rims are the tall, tapered kind...and I think there are many more spokes on a Dirtsurfer wheel than your average BMX bike. I've been told that the extra-tall rims require a valve extender when you replace the tubes (which I haven't had to do yet).

Scott