Nose engaging somewhat aggressively, jerky

[Justin]

Hi all, 

I've been racing giant slalom in a beer league, trying to improve my times. 

Some general parameters of my setup and body dimensions: 

Height = 6'0", Weight = 180 lbs. 

Boots = Mountain Slope WC .951

Boot springs = red on top, yellow on bottom, not sure on the stiffness....

Bindings = F2 race titanium 

Binding angles = 56 deg front, 53 deg rear.

Board = F2 Speedster worldcup RS 179. 

Stance width = 19.50" 

Set Back= 0" 

Cant = 3 deg Front toe and heel, 3 degree rear toe and heel. 

Edge angles= 87 deg side,  1 deg base. 

Base condition is structured, flat, good condition done by a local shop.

I have an Apex X Plate that I've used for a couple of days but took it off as I found myself adding 2 seconds to my nominal race course time of 32 seconds. Something to consider adding back on when I improve?

I set my board up dead center on the binding bolt holes as a starting point. 

As I'm pushing the GS course more aggressively, I'm finding the nose of my board is digging in aggressively from time to time, which jerks me around and throws me off balance. I'm trying to lean forward a bit over my front knee to "get in the front seat" trying to accelerate which may be contributing to this but I'm unsure. 

Any suggestions on adjustments I can make to the setup or body position to alleviate the nose from digging in and jerking me along? The setup is admittedly super stiff and has taken some getting used to but I feel like I'm getting the swing of it, as my times have improved dramatically since switching to this hardboot setup last season.

Thanks, 

Justin 

 

[Keenan]

Detune the nose?

[Jack M]

Hey Justin, your equipment is great, but it sounds like you have your bindings canted inward?  And no toe lift or heel lift?  If so I think you should try removing the cants and putting an F2 lift kit under the toe of your front binding and another under the heel of your back binding.  This stance is more stable, comfortable, and powerful.  Try it and if you feel you need to add one or both cants back in, that's fine, but toe and heel lift are important.  The bindings come with one lift kit.  Order another from Donek.  If you only have one and you're going to ride/race before the new one arrives, put it under the toe of your front foot.  The boots have significant ramp angle built-in due to the design of the heel, so you want to cancel some of that out on the front foot.

Perhaps you need to detune the edge near the contact points?  That 179 is a great board for that course.  Also, not sure how much freecarving you are doing but definitely practice outside the course in your free time as much as you can with your race gear.  The more familiar with it and in command of it you are, the better you will be in the course.  As for the plate, I've moved on to Allflex for GS and honestly I can see why all the world cup racers use them.  If you put your Apex back on and you like it for freecarving better than without, then it would probably help you in the course.  If not, then don't bother.

Pretty sure I will be back in the Pleasant Mt. beer league next year.

[softbootsurfer]

Is this happening more with a toe side or heel side turns? Is there a reason to not try moving your set up back one inch?

[Deuxdiesel]

I would go with toe and heel lift, remove the inward cant as Jack suggested.  Just a guess, but it seems like you might have a narrow-ish stance that has your knees locked up, which makes it hard to react to board movements.  At 5'10" with a 32 inseam, my stance is never less than 20", and always have rear heel and front toe lifts- it gives much more command over the board and allows me greater vertical range of motion.   A slight detune of the nose edges might reduce some of the hookiness you are experiencing.  

[lonbordin]

@Justin Pleasant is my local. Happy to take a look at your setup or shut-up and Ride with you.

Mahalo 

 

[VSR-Alex]

On 2/8/2023 at 10:26 AM, Justin said:

"As I'm pushing the GS course more aggressively, I'm finding the nose of my board is digging in aggressively from time to time, which jerks me around and throws me off balance. I'm trying to lean forward a bit over my front knee to "get in the front seat" trying to accelerate which may be contributing to this but I'm unsure."

"The setup is admittedly super stiff...."

 

Hey Justin,
I experienced this early this season and did some corrections mid-January that worked for me:
If you're flexing into the front of your boots to lower your body and don't have enough static forward lean, you will most likely flex the board forward and dig in. Now not necessarily a bad thing, but you can get too much of it.
You can feel this by just standing on your board on the flat, and feel the boot tongue pressure as you bend your legs. If the pressure is excessive and limiting your motion then you might be tipping the board forward as you get aggressive without realizing it, especially with a stiff setup.

2 quick suggestions to try:
Increase your boot forward lean on both boots, or try a heel lift on your rear binding to see how that feels.
If that doesn't work, then increase stance width by 1 inch.
I'm the same height as you and my stance sits at 21 in.
Bigger stance = more toe and heel lift required, so try the boot cuff first.

[Justin]

On 2/9/2023 at 9:18 AM, lonbordin said:

@Justin Pleasant is my local. Happy to take a look at your setup or shut-up and Ride with you.

Mahalo 

 

I'm coming up on Wednesday, at around 3 pm for 5-7 pm racing

I can try to meet you up there another time if you're planning on going anytime soon. 

[Justin]

On 2/9/2023 at 2:04 PM, VSR-Alex said:

Hey Justin,
I experienced this early this season and did some corrections mid-January that worked for me:
If you're flexing into the front of your boots to lower your body and don't have enough static forward lean, you will most likely flex the board forward and dig in. Now not necessarily a bad thing, but you can get too much of it.
You can feel this by just standing on your board on the flat, and feel the boot tongue pressure as you bend your legs. If the pressure is excessive and limiting your motion then you might be tipping the board forward as you get aggressive without realizing it, especially with a stiff setup.

2 quick suggestions to try:
Increase your boot forward lean on both boots, or try a heel lift on your rear binding to see how that feels.
If that doesn't work, then increase stance width by 1 inch.
I'm the same height as you and my stance sits at 21 in.
Bigger stance = more toe and heel lift required, so try the boot cuff first.

Thanks for your reply! I'll give the boot a little more forward lean first and try that. I haven't played with the forward lean at all since buying the boots new, so they're probably in a neutral straight up and down position. 

The boots didn't really come with a "user manual" so I'm going to assume the springs just get tightened in the back to induce a forward lean. 

[VSR-Alex]

Hey Justin,

I don't have MS .951 boots, but I believe you need to move the lower and upper nuts higher on the threaded rod to increase forward lean without changing preload.

 

Anyone else can help with .951 adjustment?

[TWM]

I too suggest trying rear foot heel lift. For me, it’s one of the most important stance factors for proper waist-down body positioning at the start of a turn. It allows me to get into position, with forward lean and a forward driving rear knee, without having to too aggressively flex or forward weight the board. 

[lonbordin]

DM'd.