HillB Posted November 28, 2022 Report Share Posted November 28, 2022 On 11/24/2022 at 11:44 PM, Odd Job said: @JohnE 24mp in hardboots Deeluxe 425. 25mp in softboots Burton Photon Boa Wide (really, they are softer than some female boots). The waist width of ~26cm on a Tanker 171 and the new Virus Revolution board I bought let me get away with fairly low angles. I use Union Atlas FC bindings. No risers. I use minimal forward lean so my legs are straighter than most on heelsides; which would exacerbate any heelcup issues. The lack of stiffness in the entire setup with softboots has helped my hardboot riding immensely. By female boots, he means mine, Burton Supremes! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Odd Job Posted November 28, 2022 Report Share Posted November 28, 2022 10 minutes ago, HillB said: By female boots, he means mine, Burton Supremes! It’s Hilly Hips! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TWM Posted November 29, 2022 Report Share Posted November 29, 2022 (edited) On 11/22/2022 at 8:47 AM, JohnE said: Agreed with most of this. My new setup is a new Donek Flux with a 27cm waist, Nidecker Supermatics and Nidecker (Flow) Talons. When carpet carving I'm finding that lower and lower angles feel more natural and stable to me. I haven't been on the snow yet this season but I'm anxious to try out this new setup. At 66 years old I need to keep this going as long as I can. I hope to be still railing turns at your age. Cheers; well done. Yours is quite similar to my soft boot carver this season -- a Donek Saber with 30.5 cm waist, Nitro Phantom Carvers, and Nidecker Talons. I'll post full reviews, but, thus far, I've found the combination of damp, controlled, high-angle carving and a plush, firm boot-binding interface very fun and comfortable. Edited November 29, 2022 by TWM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TWM Posted November 29, 2022 Report Share Posted November 29, 2022 (edited) On 11/15/2022 at 8:17 PM, Jack M said: I would say it's simply a matter of comfort, stability, mobility and leverage in the optimum posture for the task at hand. Softboots have less leverage, so they are typically used at lower angles so your foot and calf can contribute. If you can imagine setting your softboot binding angles to be completely straight ahead (90 degrees), your foot and calf wouldn't be adding any leverage across the board. This is an interesting question. This season is my first riding an ultra wide (30.5 waist) soft boot carving board. Given size 12s, boot-out from my relatively slack rear foot angle has, until now, precluded truly high-angle heel turns with soft boots. On a wide board I'm finding that, while soft boots have less leverage than hard boots (of course they do), they've enough leverage, especially paired with the right binding--plenty of leverage, in fact--to drive controlled, high-angle heel turns, even with a ~40* front foot. This, in a very short time, has destroyed my long-held assumptions about soft boot cross-board leverage. It's not to say that soft boots are optimal for alpine racing, but, the right boot paired with the right board and binding surely affords leverage adequate for aggressive, high-angle free carving. Edited November 29, 2022 by TWM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnE Posted November 29, 2022 Author Report Share Posted November 29, 2022 I've also bought a pair of risers from Donek. These raise the binding off the deck by 1/2". I don't have them mounted now because early season snow is pretty hard and boot drag is less of an issue. However, when the snow softens up, I may install them. 9 hours ago, TWM said: I hope to be still railing turns at your age. Cheers; well done. Yours is quite similar to my soft boot carver this season -- a Donek Saber with 30.5 cm waist, Nitro Phantom Carvers, and Nidecker Talons. I'll post full reviews, but, thus far, I've found the combination of damp, controlled, high-angle carving and a plush, firm boot-binding interface very fun and comfortable. One of my riding buddies (Arne) is still carving beautifully at 71 or 72 y.o. with 2x artificial knees and 2x artificial hips. He rides both hard & soft boots. Also, Softbootsurfer on this site is 76 y.o. this year. He rides 100 days/season at Buttermilk. He is super graceful and a real inspiration. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pat Donnelly Posted November 29, 2022 Report Share Posted November 29, 2022 (edited) What Bruce refers to as "Hard on Soft", F+20/R+2. Photo credit to Softbootsurfer overhead on West Buttermilk, Feb 2018 Edited December 1, 2022 by Pat Donnelly 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnE Posted November 30, 2022 Author Report Share Posted November 30, 2022 It seems like more and more people are "transitioning" from hardboots to soft. My expectation was that softboot carving would be the "gateway drug" into hardboots. I'm not familiar with the origins of hardbooting but it seems like it is an offshoot of snowboard racing (correct?). Softboot snowboarding came from the surfing / skateboard culture. Softboot carving was an attempt to carve with gear from that culture (?). Is it possible that this is a convergent evolution? If we fastforward 5 or 10 years most carvers will be using gear that is some hybrid of hard and softboot gear? Hardbooting will remain for racers and those who have to carve on very hard snow? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigwavedave Posted November 30, 2022 Report Share Posted November 30, 2022 With soft boots getting stiffer and stiffer for carving on stiffer boards, pretty soon someone will invent softboots with a plastic outer shell that just snaps over your foot, has an adjustable flex and doesn't need an exoskeleton binding and... ...nevermind... 2 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lordmetroland Posted November 30, 2022 Report Share Posted November 30, 2022 1 hour ago, bigwavedave said: With soft boots getting stiffer and stiffer for carving on stiffer boards, pretty soon someone will invent softboots with a plastic outer shell that just snaps over your foot, has an adjustable flex and doesn't need an exoskeleton binding and... ...nevermind... And risk mockery at the hands of our unquestioned leaders like AngrySnowboader? Not a chance… 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b0ardski Posted December 1, 2022 Report Share Posted December 1, 2022 (edited) this right here... "And IMHO if you did it right,,,, softboots would go away and just persist in Parks. Because you would get more all mountain performance from a lightweight mid height hard shelled boot with a medium flex, I mean WHO would not like a pair of snowboard boots that weigh LESS than a single softboot and a lighter more versatile binding system? Plus maybe the ability to swap cuffs and tongues and clip into a Firmer Alpine carving board? " I've been saying this all along. When I saw the Killer loop soft plastic shell lace ups 30yrs ago that were sooo flexy I realized that there is a really wide spectrum of durometer/flexability for plastic to make boots out of. Nordica sbs ( ground control's grandaddy) were on the right track but sewn on uppers are never gonna cut it. laces (even metal ones) and straps to hold your foot on the board are what I've always called "caveman tech," it might be scientifically advanced material and user friendly ratchets but it's still century's old tech in application, time to give up on steam engines and embrace the 21st century. Edited December 1, 2022 by b0ardski 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b0ardski Posted December 1, 2022 Report Share Posted December 1, 2022 (edited) My burton drivers in flow bindings were damn near the same flex as my Raichle 123's with stepin plates, while being way more bulky, less convenient and far less durable. Durability is a big issue for me while corporate capitalism prefers dispose-ability. Edited December 1, 2022 by b0ardski 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Odd Job Posted December 2, 2022 Report Share Posted December 2, 2022 My softboots are so soft, I can freely flex them the other way (the wrong way) and point my toes out. You don't need a stiff boot or specialized equipment to enjoy carving on softboots. It doesn't even need to have sharp edges either. I can't get pressure as early as I want on softboots. And I know it's a technique issue being exposed wide open, along with me having the flexibility of a geriatric ****tard. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
softbootsurfer Posted December 2, 2022 Report Share Posted December 2, 2022 Simply bolt the high back up and add a top strap then you are both soft and hard...and I don't sit to strap in, never have...yea, it does take about 15 seconds to do 3 straps, but the high speed chairs make that irrelevant...then again, I live where the Hero snow is...so a 2x10 with tennis shoes would probably work 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b0ardski Posted December 4, 2022 Report Share Posted December 4, 2022 (edited) I did ride og my burton performer in high tops a couple of times! then I got some real boots! Edited December 4, 2022 by b0ardski 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
softbootsurfer Posted December 4, 2022 Report Share Posted December 4, 2022 That's funny, a real name for the Performer was "Good Luck" only hit the surface harder riding the one wheel I definitely prefer the Modern Sticks, Eh? Fact is, the Edge is what does the Carving, regardless of what is on your feet... 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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