skatha Posted May 7, 2005 Report Share Posted May 7, 2005 Originally posted by bobdea the clone wars cartoons on the lucas films site there are a whole bunch of them lots of side stories about what was going on with anakin between ep II and III and some stuff with that bad ass general Grievous Dune was great the later books were a little wierd with the symbiotic skin and all I would like to see a quality production of that series on par with the LOTR movies I guess there are some dune books that are prequels to the origional series but they were written by someone else I read the original Dune-the series of books got weaker with each book... As for the movie, I preferred the theatrical release-the SciFi series was different-not bad, but away from my expectations from reading the book. As for Jar-Jar being a post-production addition, I'll buy your argument, but I still think he glowed-I've never flinched as much in a movie as the time I saw his character for the first time. Not to be claiming, but my mom wanted me to go to art school rather then med school, so I think I may have "an eye" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kjl Posted May 7, 2005 Report Share Posted May 7, 2005 Originally posted by skatha As for Jar-Jar being a post-production addition, I'll buy your argument, but I still think he glowed-I've never flinched as much in a movie as the time I saw his character for the first time. Oh, yeah - he didn't fit in at all, no arguments there. :) I guess I was just saying that Gollum's great look was not due to some fancy computer technology that somehow copied lighting and shading off of live action, but because the artists who worked on him kick ass (i.e. the analogy "this painting doesn't look good because he used the best paints - it's because he's a good painter"). Although in this case Jar-Jar looks bad not because the artists suck, but because the director doesn't know what "subtle" means, and likes to push everything to 11. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zcarver Posted May 8, 2005 Report Share Posted May 8, 2005 Originally posted by Jack Michaud I thought Gollum was played by an actor with motion sensors all over his body which created a wireframe for the CGI people to work from.....? I think the weta team set a record for most visual effects work on a single character. Gollum has over 250 facial features and 300 different muscles movements. In some 3d applications this is called endomorphs or morphing. It allows the animator to change the original base shape of the character or object to create another look. It took weta over 7 months to get the right features going. Many morphs were created as they go. Motion capture and bones can't do everything. It was a good thing for the animators that Gollum had no clothes, just diapers. That would of added more calculations time to the scene. A feature called Dynamics usually control the cloth effects. Like Yoda. That is heavy duty work:D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Gendzwill Posted May 9, 2005 Report Share Posted May 9, 2005 You know, great a technical achievement as Gollum was, he still came off as a computer effect to me and took me out of the moment a bit. Also that's my least favourite character of all the books. I was grateful we didn't get the full 200 pages of Frodo, Sam and Gollum wandering in the swamp. My biggest beef with those films was turning Gimli into comedy relief. Blech. The trailer is up for Narnia now - looks like they've decided to make things a little more action-y, and they've added some sort of grumpy housekeeper character to the scenes at the Professor's house but overall it looks like it could be quite good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack M Posted May 9, 2005 Author Report Share Posted May 9, 2005 Originally posted by Neil Gendzwill You know, great a technical achievement as Gollum was, he still came off as a computer effect to me and took me out of the moment a bit. That's kind of my outlook on CGI in general. A CGI movie that is pure CGI and is supposed to be a cartoon like Toy Story or Incredibles is totally fine. It works. But trying to pass off a CGI character as a real character just doesn't work. I'll take the muppet Yoda over the CGI Yoda any day. I also felt like the whole point of Polar Express was "lookee what we can do with CGI!!" Oh yeah? Well it sucked. A hand painted cartoon would have been better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patmoore Posted May 9, 2005 Report Share Posted May 9, 2005 There actually was a public debate about the question. Check it out. Also from Ohio you can vote on the all-time best Star Wars movies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Gendzwill Posted May 9, 2005 Report Share Posted May 9, 2005 I think they're making pretty good progress with the CGI scenery though - Sin City was great. But I think the CGI stuff has to inevitably be scaled back. Audiences are too smart - you see this huge space battle scene and immediately you A) know that it couldn't be done any other way than CGI and B) it looks like CGI anyways. So you just dismiss it in your head as no more than a video game cut scene. The last two Star Wars movies were like that for me "ooh, pretty! also, so what." Even watching it back nearly 30 years later, the model work in the original Star Wars was more impressive and more importantly, involved the viewer more. I think movie makers just have to give themselves a slap and be aware of when it's time to step away from the computers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kjl Posted May 9, 2005 Report Share Posted May 9, 2005 Originally posted by Jack Michaud But trying to pass off a CGI character as a real character just doesn't work. I'll take the muppet Yoda over the CGI Yoda any day. Passing a CGI character off as a real character just doesn't work... yet... That's just because CGI is a young technology, in my opinion. You can go look back in time at really, really crappy practical effects, too, like any old space show where the ships look like plastic model ships, the robots are people in tin foil, and the aliens are people in latex and fur, but those guys eventually got much better at their craft. CGI will get good enough at some point that a similarly skilled artist should be able to make a convincing Yoda... though artists as skilled as Frank Oz are hard to come by. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack M Posted May 9, 2005 Author Report Share Posted May 9, 2005 Originally posted by Neil Gendzwill I think they're making pretty good progress with the CGI scenery though Agreed. Scenery totally works. Even watching it back nearly 30 years later, the model work in the original Star Wars was more impressive and more importantly, involved the viewer more. I think Return of the Jedi is probably the apogee of pre-CGI special effects. Check it out. There's one particular scene that made special effects history - during the big battle at the end, in one moment (like 3 seconds) we see a view out the Millenium Falcon's cockpit and there are something like 300 individual space ships swarming around. All without computers, iirc. I think movie makers just have to give themselves a slap and be aware of when it's time to step away from the computers. Unfortunately Lucas is totally under the CGI spell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skatha Posted May 10, 2005 Report Share Posted May 10, 2005 In terms of DISLIKING CGI, I really did not care for the massive fight scene in Matrix 2 with Neo and the Mr. Smith copies. I could very easily pick out the live action scenes from the CGI scenes-yes, there are a few interpersed in there. There was no flow between them and the whole thing came across to me as a "look at what we can do with computers" scene(ironic when you think the Matrix could be construed as an anti-computer dominance movie) rather than aiding the story.... Of course, my two favorite Matrix lines came from that movie.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kjl Posted May 12, 2005 Report Share Posted May 12, 2005 Wow, Episode 3 actually has a 90% fresh rating on rotten tomatoes. Holy flurking schnitt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kjl Posted May 17, 2005 Report Share Posted May 17, 2005 spoilers ahead Ok, not really. I won't give anything away, but the movie had 100% fewer lines spoken by Jar Jar than the script posted by PeterC above has, which, according to my calculations, makes the movie 100% better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zcarver Posted May 17, 2005 Report Share Posted May 17, 2005 One newspaper say 3 1/2 stars, another say 2 1/2? Who cares, either way George is a winner. We all want to see how the little kid goes bad. 28 years and the waiting is over. Boo HOO!:D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack M Posted May 17, 2005 Author Report Share Posted May 17, 2005 kjl - how have you seen it already? zcarver - don't worry, I'm sure the junior Lucas will make episodes 7, 8, 9 in 20 years. Although I hope nobody does. I think the death of Vader and the Emperor is a tidy, satisfying way to finish the saga in a happily ever after sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kjl Posted May 17, 2005 Report Share Posted May 17, 2005 We had a screening at work. It's pretty sweet - we have one of the nicest theaters probably in the country in the building, with super fancy pantsy digital whatever projection and ultra turbo hyper fighting audio championship edition, and the only people in the audience are film nerds, so there are no cell phones or whispering or pimply teenagers necking in the row in front of you. Security was tight, though - I've never been wanded for recording devices at work before! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack M Posted May 17, 2005 Author Report Share Posted May 17, 2005 That's awesome. I can imagine what that's like because when I was between jobs I worked at a custom hifi place and we had a sweet little 6-seat theater there with about a 8' wide screen that we could use after hours. That's the only way to fly. The movie-going experience has been all but killed for me, by rude people, pre-flick ads, and incompetent theater management. For me to go to a movie these days, the movie has to either be MAJORLY recommended, or be Star Wars or the Matrix. I'll be making an exception soon for Fever Pitch, which I'm told is a must see for any Sox fan. I might have a different attitude if there was an Imax or big screen stadium-seating theater near me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zcarver Posted May 17, 2005 Report Share Posted May 17, 2005 Originally posted by Jack Michaud I'm sure the junior Lucas will make episodes 7, 8, 9 in 20 years. Although I hope nobody does. I think the death of Vader and the Emperor is a tidy, satisfying way to finish the saga in a happily ever after sense. Well, there is a lot of room for a new story after the "Return of the Jedi." "The Rise of the sith" :D I also heard rumors that George is making a TV series as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack M Posted May 17, 2005 Author Report Share Posted May 17, 2005 Originally posted by Zcarver Well, there is a lot of room for a new story after the "Return of the Jedi." "The Rise of the sith" :D Actually "the rise of the sith" would have to come before episode I. There are three more Lucas-approved books already in print that follow Return of the Jedi. I read what would be episode VII about 10 years ago. It was pretty good, it dealt with Han and Leia's young jedi offspring (turns out Han has jedi blood too) and the rise of a new bad guy - "Grand Admiral Thrawn" who is an humanoid with blue skin bent on restoring the Empire. These could easily become movies, (hmm, Vladimir Putin would make a good Thrawn) but I don't really see the point. If they go beyond Jedi, then Star Wars could just turn into an endless story like James Bond, and I think that would detract from the magic of it all. I also heard rumors that George is making a TV series as well. I believe this is true, but I think it is supposed to fill in the gaps between episodes III and IV. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Gendzwill Posted May 17, 2005 Report Share Posted May 17, 2005 Personally I love going to movies at the theatre, especially comedies and action flicks. I hate the commercials but the audiences here aren't yet too terribly rude. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Randy S. Posted May 17, 2005 Report Share Posted May 17, 2005 Originally posted by kjl I've never been wanded for recording devices at work before! Um Ken... Lots of humor in that line. So not at work, but you've been wanded at home for recording devices? On a date? Getting wanded at work in general sounds vaguely like sexual harrassment, depending on who does the wanding. That theatre sounds awesome. Can I bring my kids to the screening of Cars when it comes out (that thing looks vaguely like a Chevron commercial)? Oh, I've got my fandango tix for Episode III for this Friday night in Bakersfield - we're driving to SoCal and that's where we're going to spend the night. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SWriverstone Posted May 18, 2005 Report Share Posted May 18, 2005 You guys have seen The Star Wars Kid, right? If not, Google him and check it out---there are zillions of links to him all over the place! Funniest thing I ever saw... Scott Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kjl Posted May 18, 2005 Report Share Posted May 18, 2005 Originally posted by Randy S. Um Ken... Lots of humor in that line. So not at work, but you've been wanded at home for recording devices? On a date? Heh, you have a weird, sick, mind, Randy ;) I mean wanded at work, as opposed to, say, places where you might actually get wanded, like airports or jury duty! Sheesh. Also, what is this thing you call "date"? That theatre sounds awesome. Can I bring my kids to the screening of Cars when it comes out (that thing looks vaguely like a Chevron commercial)? You don't mind your kids getting wanded by strangers? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FTA2R Posted May 19, 2005 Report Share Posted May 19, 2005 star wars kid is funny, Canadien, has suffered a lot emotionally I guess. The "Numa Numa" kid is also hilarious, lip syncing some Romanaian rap song with funny facial expressions. anyway, I'm going to a special pre- viewing of SW tomorrow- one of our vendors rented out the theater and hooked us up with tix- I guess this opens to the public Friday? I'm not into the whole star wars scene, but this is def. a movie to see in theaters. yoda rules. === Barry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SWriverstone Posted May 19, 2005 Report Share Posted May 19, 2005 (Don't worry---no spoilers here!) Just saw "Sith..." I liked it! I didn't LOVE it, but I'd characterize it as "solid," or exactly what I expected. Definitely better than the previous 2 films (episodes 1 and 2), but not quite up to "Empire Strikes Back." The film did as promised---neatly tied up loose ends in the story. No surprises, but some intense, Wagnerian moments. The Anakin story wasn't simple---it wasn't just a case of him being a numskull and making bad decisions. He was genuinely stuck between a rock and hard place, and I felt sorry for him. It's truly tragic. Unfortunately, I left the theater not feeling elated or relieved or with any sense of completion...but actually with a sense of sorrow that my generation (40-somethings) were permanently screwed by getting the story in the "wrong" order. All I could think was...how awesome the whole thing would be to see, all 6 movies, from beginning to end in the proper order! But alas---that's a joy only to be experienced by younger generations from now on. The good news is...even though I've seen 'em a million times, the end of this movie made me want to head right to the video rental store to pick up episodes 4-6 and watch them again---just to take in the full scope of the saga! Scott Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobdea Posted May 20, 2005 Report Share Posted May 20, 2005 http://www.panicstruckpro.com/revelations/revelations_about.html Sidious does not die in return according to one of the lucas approved books, he had some clones made of himself and moves his mind to new bodies every so often okay now its official, I am a star wars geek I liked the new movie, just got back from seeing it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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