Calling all dodgy knees!

[charliechocolate]

1 hour ago, daveo said:

If we are talking egregious... bleach on knees? whattt? 

At the risk of getting the ire of the mods, surely you've heard of this little nugget of profound insight

But back on topic:
it looks like that lower part of the support is making contact with the boot cuff and top buckle, or it could just be the angle of the photo.

[daveo]

3 hours ago, charliechocolate said:

But back on topic:

it looks like that lower part of the support is making contact with the boot cuff and top buckle, or it could just be the angle of the photo.

Yep! It literally connects to the top of the boot cuff! A ball joint is clamped on there and a socket is used to connect the lower arm.

[1xsculler]

IF I had any joint or lower back pain I would never let any other Dr touch me and I would get on an airplane, if necessary, to get the opinion of Dr Dan Nelson at Pro Ortho in Kirkland, WA. His specialty for the past 30 years has been musculoskeletal pain. 
He once had an hour radio program from 11:00 to noon PDT on either KVI or KTTH on Saturdays. He may still be doing that. If you listen to him his knowledge and integrity comes through loud and clear. 

[pow4ever]

thoughts on NMN, NAD+/David Sinclair's study in the context of knee?

I took some turmeric supplement and seems to help with inflammation/osteoarthritis.

squat, stretch just seems to maintain the status quo but not getting better. 

[daveo]

I've been seeing turmeric come up in my reading lately, too. I just started glucosamine and chondroitin, though.

I did try a number of new knee braces recently with the intention of returning the ones I don't like and keeping 1 for snowboarding.. Really liking the Bauerfeind Genutrain Sport so far, ended up buying 2 pairs so I can rotate them. These are the ones I tried. In addition to my Rehband 7051.

• Bauerfeind Genutrain Sport- offered best comfort, compression, perceived support and ability to stay up.
• Bauerfeind Sports Compression Knee Support- keeping these, also. Super comfortable, feel reasonably supportive, nicely compressive and warm. These just feel great.
• Bauerfeind Genutrain- probably second overall but felt less supportive than the Sport, plus had a tendency to stay to wiggle its way down through the day. Due to the material, it is probably more comfortable than the Sport, but only minimally. I suspect the material holds more water/sweat than the Sport, which may negate the comfort advantage. 
• Bauerfeind Genutrain P3- felt too restrictive. Too much going on with it. Felt loose around my kneecap. 
• Bauerfeind Genutrain A3- overall very comfortable, but seemed to lack the support I feel like I need/want.
• DonJoy Reaction Web- way too confronting for my knee cap, felt like someone had vice grips around my knee cap.
• Donjoy Webtech- as above just worse.
• Ossur Formfit Pro- similar to the Genutrain but just felt overall "less" in every aspect.
• Ossur Formfit Pro OA- not quite sure what this was trying to do to my knee, but it felt very unnatural.
• Shock Doctor 875- honestly hated it, didn't really feel like it offered any support and the hinges I felt were intrusive since I could feel them there.
• McDavid 429X- hated it also, but hated it a little less than the SD875, felt more natural and less instrusive than the SD875 but at the same time kind of had a similar feeling, not much between these two.
• Rehband 7051- I love these. They offer perceived support, compression, warmth and comfort, but I am seeking "more" of everything for snowboarding now that my knee is in a somewhat permanent state of injury. Sometimes they can be a little to compressive and I can start to feel blood well in the lower half of my legs while on the chair lift. These are the braces I use to squat in in the gym, along with knee wraps these days since full collapse is painful.

Edited June 4, 2021 by daveo

[pow4ever]

Thank you Daveo for testing and review!

i assumed the best is also the most expensive?  the S = sport? 

https://www.bauerfeind.com/b2c/Products/Knee-Braces/GenuTrain-S-Knee-Brace/p/YPBF_BAK_GENUTR_S

FWIW:  anecdotal not empirical nor scientific
"my knee is in a somewhat permanent state of injury."  <-- I am in the same boat and it stink..
My knee just been stiff (can not squat as deeper), limited range of motion, click/clack/pop all day longs.
This have been going on for more than a year.
I can still do pretty much what i want activity wise but I dread about the next day.

Supplement work more or less on a placebo level for me.

What made a dramatic change is walk/run barefooted.  It's only been 1 week.
I tried barefoot long ago and didn't like it.  probably i was trying to run barefoot after my long run and it's just torture.
knock on wood; so far so good.  it could be squeezing the ballon as the calf is under heavier load. 
i take muscle sore(good 'pain') over numb/stiff joint..
just can't believe the difference it made:  got the spring in my step back in a manner speaking.
I don't wear shoes at home so i am familiar with "the feeling" and I really didn't think walking barefoot (~5-6 miles a day) will make any difference.
Notice immediate relive after first session.   i can squat deeper, knee doesn't feel stiff, old clicky is gone(mostly).  it's still not 100% but definitely moving toward the right direction. 

[daveo]

Hey @pow4ever mate!

I think the S in the Genutrain S might actually stand for "Support". This is a hinged brace, which I kind of avoided after trying 2 other hinged braces and found them to be too intrusive for my particular preference.

The Genutrain Sport is actually the cheapest from all the Bauerfeind braces! It is more compressive, lighter and breathable than the regular Genutrain line of braces (Genutrain (normal version), P3 (patella issue specific version), A3 (arthritis specific version), S (hinged support version)). It also has silicon strips on the inside, which aid in it staying up. My perception of the regular Genutrain line was that it was a little too "unsupportive" for my likings, but that could be because I'm used to using reasonably strong sleeves while I squat (Rehband 7051) and I've even used knee wraps.

Funny you talk of barefoot stuff. After a whole bunch of research into my knee and consulting with a former ortho surgeon who is a mate of mine, at the start of 2020 I decided to start with barefoot/minimal/zero drop shoes with wide toe boxes. I've since either binned or sold pretty much all my shoes except for my pair of crampon compatible Scarpas. Now I have:

• Lems Primal 2
• Lems Boulder Mid
• Altra Lone Peak Hiker
• Topo Trailventure
• Xero Prio
• Xero Z-Trail

The Prio is the most minimal and I use it exclusively for jogging. I jog slowly only for about 20min. I might get around 4km or so. I do this for the sole purpose of strengthening my feet. Just once or twice a week.

Now I wear barefoot shoes, my walking biomechanics have changed- I walk wayyy softer and don't strike with my heel. And my jogging/running biomechanics have changed- I absorb way more impact with my feet.

I also wrap my knees when I squat anything at or over say 100kg, just so I can protect myself from the bottom position. I find knee pain will occur if I'm at full collapse. So anything at 100kg or over and I wrap my knees so I can't get into a full collapse- it protects me by probably 10 degrees or something I'm guessing. Plus I never go to exhaustion or anything.

I also started to power clean again in a pretty high catch position just so I can absorb a little impact in a controlled environment. Nothing heavy, though.

I'm also dragging myself to my TV and doing 1 follow along yoga session from the youtubes per week because I can see some value there also. But really I should be doing it everyday if I'm going to see any benefit I guess.

So I figure this (which could be completely wrong): somewhat corrected walking/jogging biomechanics + way stronger feet + strengthened hammies/quads/glutes/calves/abs + ability to absorb impact efficiency in my feet/legs = more stability everywhere so my knees and knee cartilage aren't getting rocked and shocked from every day life.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited May 25, 2021 by daveo

[pow4ever]

Thank you @daveo for the detail reply and sharing your notes/experience on various interesting topics!

bought some Xero Prio to try out:  getting impatient with all the activity in my local high school track.  How dare them holding lacrosse tournament when i am trying to exercise!  i pay taxes!!

apology for being pedantic:  pretty sure this is the knee brace but want to double check

https://www.bauerfeind.com/b2c/Sports-Products/Sports-Knee-Support/p/YPBF_SPK_SKNEESUP

olympic lifts scares me but it build powerful/functional strength instead vanity.  compound move like thruster is about all i can muster.

my info was way outdate:  it was ironically based on "The New Rules of Lifting". new being back in 2008 lol...

push, pull, twist, squat, dead lift and lunges.

[daveo]

1 hour ago, pow4ever said:

apology for being pedantic:  pretty sure this is the knee brace but want to double check

https://www.bauerfeind.com/b2c/Sports-Products/Sports-Knee-Support/p/YPBF_SPK_SKNEESUP

Please don't apologise!  I can recommend Bauerfeind based on my perception that they make high quality stuff and the return policy is definitely good. Can share my experience and vibe about each brace but can't really recommend them because I honestly don't know if it actually does anything or if I'm just imagining it. In saying that, the Genutrain Sport, to me, definitely felt the most supportive and made my knee feel most comfortable compared to the other braces, and definitely feels better (in my mind) than without a brace when doing activity. Add on that it stays up perfectly, breathes well, is reasonably priced (compared to others), is quite compressive but doesn't cut blood flow like my Rehbands. But I'm someone who kind of wears knee braces as a safety blanket since I had my first ACL reco when I was 15.

Yep, that's the correct one in the link, that's the one I found is best for me but might not be good for you (I don't want to be responsible for you buying it and hating it Hahaha). It is the same as the "NBA" one just without the cool branding.

I think for now my testing is done regarding the braces because I'm really happy with this one, although I will test out a Stoko K1 once they refine the product and release the gen2 model. Always sceptical of buying the first generation of something and they have already revised the stitching since it was released just a few mk the ago.

Bauerfeind has a great return policy, that's one of the reasons why I tried so many from them! I have read that people get blisters from the silicone on the inside of the sport one, I haven't experienced it but apparently it can happen if you happen to be allergic to that.

1 hour ago, pow4ever said:

push, pull, twist, squat, dead lift and lunges.

This seems perfect to me! I'm liking kettlebells, exercise bike and skipping rope lately, too...

1 hour ago, pow4ever said:

bought some Xero Prio to try out: 

I find synthetic football surfaces to be great to run on. Helps with impact absorption. The inner grass areas at most our running tracks are synthetic these days. But I still run slowly on the street also since my area has a lot of hills I find this is best for foot strength!

I ran 5 x 150m in my Prios (wouldn't recommend it vs proper track flats but it can be done) with my nephew not too long ago because he was being a little wimp at his football training so I had to destroy him in a few runs to show him he has no heart and hopefully getting killed on the track by an unfit, injured old man might inspire him to put in a little effort. It was a mistake, though, knee pulled up sore for a few days. Still worth it, though lol.

Edited May 28, 2021 by daveo

[pow4ever]

Black Friday sale - save $80. going broke by saving money?

[pow4ever]

I tried k1 brace from https://stokodesign.com/
it didn't work well for me.
Here is what happen -
the internal cable system goes inside the boot liner.
it's compression so i don't think it goes outside the bladder.
When the liner is performance/tight fit the cable dig into the flesh.

not sure how skier can use it without issue.  i emailed them and have not heard anything back.
i would stay away from it.

you can see the cut/abrasion:

[bigwavedave]

@pow4ever

Try putting your socks on before the Stoko's so that they are between the cable tights and your leg. Makes it easier to slide them on too. I haven't had those issues. The cables that cross in front are supposed to be at mid lower leg, so should be near the top of your boot.

I tried a pair and I would say they don't replace my hinged brace in preventing hyperextension. I doubted that they would, even though they claimed otherwise. They definitely provide more support than any elastic knee brace. They are somewhat similar to the support that Kinesio tape provides, but more substantial. Kind of what I suspected.

The surprise added benefit for me is that the cables criss cross the lower abdomen providing support where I occasionally feel the need for it after a hernia repair last year.

[pow4ever]

On 12/30/2021 at 5:33 PM, bigwavedave said:

@pow4ever

Try putting your socks on before the Stoko's so that they are between the cable tights and your leg. Makes it easier to slide them on too. I haven't had those issues. The cables that cross in front are supposed to be at mid lower leg, so should be near the top of your boot.

I tried a pair and I would say they don't replace my hinged brace in preventing hyperextension. I doubted that they would, even though they claimed otherwise. They definitely provide more support than any elastic knee brace. They are somewhat similar to the support that Kinesio tape provides, but more substantial. Kind of what I suspected.

The surprise added benefit for me is that the cables criss cross the lower abdomen providing support where I occasionally feel the need for it after a hernia repair last year.

Thank you Dave!  if they making something idiot proof and i will rise up to the challenges to being that better idiot (new 2022 with 39% more idioticrcy)  Will give it another try when we have some snow on the slope.

[BobD]

One supplement not mentioned above is magnesium. Google - magnesium joint pain.   Many people are Mg deficient for various reasons. Mg from drinking water is an important source because it so bio-available. Many store bought drinks and foods are made with purified water, which can actually leach Mg from your body. Reverse osmosis water is very bad for a Body's Mg levels. Also living in an area with soft tap water can make a big difference. Medications can reduce Mg levels, especially diuretics. I ended up Pseudogout, which is often mistaken for Rheumatoid Arthritis. It just affected a couple of fingers, and not my knees fortunately. After a lot of research, this the Mg supplement I've used for ten years.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00EE0MFO6/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Edited January 5, 2022 by BobD