Steve Dold Posted March 17, 2005 Report Share Posted March 17, 2005 I wish people wouldn't get this worked up over snowboarding style. It doesn't matter, snowboarding has about zero importance in the big scheme of things. It's great to be helpful, and I really appreciate the opinions and insight, but I wish people wouldn't get offended and weird about who invented what or how one style of turn shouldn't be promoted as new snowboarding dicipline. If you don't like a style of turn, just tell us why it doesn't work well and offer alternatives. After I spend a couple of hours of trying to show somebody how to land an airplane without killing us both, coming home and seeing people getting all worked up over snowboarding style is just ridiculous. I'm trying to teach a style and technique that will keep this guy from killing his wife and kids. And if snowboarding isn't taught properly, the worst thing is that maybe boots will be harder to find at my local shop. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skywalker Posted March 17, 2005 Report Share Posted March 17, 2005 Hi Bordy. Sorry for that, as I don't have nearly as much posts here in this forum and not any WC experience. What I strange kind of hierarchical thinking is this what you show up here? I had this thought on some others of your posts before, but how much a better person are you than James Ong????? I think, we all are just hardbooters with a lot of passion for our sport. You know, this is a free country ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RDY_2_Carve Posted March 17, 2005 Report Share Posted March 17, 2005 Lock this post! It was informative at first but it's turning into a pissing contest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-Sub Posted March 17, 2005 Report Share Posted March 17, 2005 Originally posted by Steve Dold After I spend a couple of hours of trying to show somebody how to land an airplane without killing us both, coming home and seeing people getting all worked up over snowboarding style is just ridiculous. quote of the year Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fin Posted March 17, 2005 Report Share Posted March 17, 2005 Getting close guys....... Keep it civil and NOT personal. Great topic so it would be a shame to let tempers go and then we have to shut her down. Play nice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarvCanada Posted March 17, 2005 Report Share Posted March 17, 2005 QUOTE James Ong: "I'm outta here , you guys obviously don't have the sense of history to appreciate carving. leaving still without any past/present/future proof of linking laid out turns>" proof? www.extremecarving.com ???! aren't you from Tahoe, don't you see it all the time with the Tahoecarvers!? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack M Posted March 17, 2005 Report Share Posted March 17, 2005 ...but I would probably word it differently. Unfortunately I just started reading this thread, and could only skim the various dissertations here. I agree with Bordy when he says that EC style turns are one skill out of many that a good snowboarder should posess. I agree pontificating that EC style is the holy grail of all carving technique is probably not helpful. I'm not quite sure that is what the EC guys are doing though. I agree that setting one's carving goals at "touching the snow" is not a good thing. It all too often results in newbies who ride like this. Years ago I came to the realization that touching the snow is a pleasant <i>byproduct</i> of good technique, but it is not the goal of good technique. I really enjoy the EC movies though. I wish I had the time to make something similar. Maybe next year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest mrdogboy Posted March 17, 2005 Report Share Posted March 17, 2005 this is MY thread this is MY thread this is MY thread this is MY thread this is MY thread this is MY thread this is MY thread this is MY thread this is MY thread this is MY thread this is MY thread this is MY thread this is MY thread this is MY thread this is MY thread this is MY thread this is MY thread this is MY thread this is MY thread this is MY thread this is MY thread this is MY thread this is MY thread this is MY thread this is MY thread this is MY thread this is MY thread this is MY thread this is MY thread this is MY thread this is MY thread this is MY thread this is MY thread this is MY thread this is MY thread this is MY thread this is MY thread this is MY thread this is MY thread this is MY thread this is MY thread this is MY thread this is MY thread this is MY thread this is MY thread this is MY thread this is MY thread this is MY thread this is MY thread this is MY thread this is MY thread this is MY thread this is MY thread this is MY thread this is MY thread this is MY thread this is MY thread this is MY thread this is MY thread this is MY thread this is MY thread this is MY thread this is MY thread this is MY thread this is MY thread Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest mrdogboy Posted March 17, 2005 Report Share Posted March 17, 2005 Originally posted by Jack Michaud ...but I would probably word it differently. Unfortunately I just started reading this thread, and could only skim the various dissertations here. I agree with Bordy when he says that EC style turns are one skill out of many that a good snowboarder should posess. I agree pontificating that EC style is the holy grail of all carving technique is probably not helpful. I'm not quite sure that is what the EC guys are doing though. I agree that setting one's carving goals at "touching the snow" is not a good thing. It all too often results in newbies who ride like this. Years ago I came to the realization that touching the snow is a pleasant <i>byproduct</i> of good technique, but it is not the goal of good technique. I really enjoy the EC movies though. I wish I had the time to make something similar. Maybe next year. the orginal question was does everyone do this !, BECAUSE 1. I was thinking that I can try to do this on a MONOSKI 2. If this is common practise for Alphine snowboarding, then I might want to take up alphine boarding.. I like sports with cool by products. -Lee Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philfell Posted March 17, 2005 Report Share Posted March 17, 2005 Sorry mrdogboy your thread was highjacked and went off in a different direction than intended. It kind of hit a nerve with many people here. To answer your question, yes many people can ride like the pic or aspire to ride like the pic you posted. Personally I think it is somewhat of an ugly pic of EC technique there are better out there. Also many people feel that there is a level beyond the pic you posted. Some see it some don't. Hope this helps, and sorry about all the side show. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FTA2R Posted March 17, 2005 Report Share Posted March 17, 2005 "After I spend a couple of hours of trying to show somebody how to land an airplane without killing us both, coming home and seeing people getting all worked up over snowboarding style is just ridiculous. " Nice point there. I couldn't agree more. My mother passed away a few weeks ago- she was 58. Things like that help to put everything else in perspective. I'm not trying to start anything here but it would be nice if some of you could get not get so worked up, I think for most of us riding is something we enjoy tremendously, not our lives, though. For those that have made it their lives, I am happy that you get to do something you truly love. I don't think many can say that. These flame wars are getting old, though, and probably caused some riders to leave. === Barry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack M Posted March 17, 2005 Report Share Posted March 17, 2005 Originally posted by mrdogboy the orginal question was does everyone do this !, BECAUSE 1. I was thinking that I can try to do this on a MONOSKI 2. If this is common practise for Alphine snowboarding, then I might want to take up alpine boarding.. I like sports with cool by products. -Lee I think you should probably take up alpine snowboarding then! Yes, it's pretty common for good hardbooters to be able to lay out turns. It's easier to do on toeside, like this one of me. It's harder to do on heelside, but I don't think it's as natural as a more upright, poised position which you can still crank over like this. Check out the welcome center here for info on getting into the sport. Don't get upset over thread hijackings, it happens all the time, like any conversation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tpalka Posted March 17, 2005 Report Share Posted March 17, 2005 hammersnowboards link: http://hammersnowboards.com/products/hotsnowboards/before_94.php Looks great, but IMHO doesn't have the grace of P&J. I've been following this thread and I enjoyed the various points of view. Personally, P&J's movies is what got me want to carve in the first place, and I desire and enjoy grace more than the speed. It's the reason I switched from alpine skiing to telemarking. So to each his own, but I'm at the end of my first season, carved about 50 days so far, and my two goals now are: the EC turn and linking medium-radius turns through small/medium mogul fields. Both tools in a toolbox, but that's my focus at present :) tom. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philfell Posted March 17, 2005 Report Share Posted March 17, 2005 http://www.hammersnowboards.com/products/hotsnowboards/before_94.php Thanks Tim, but that clearly isn't proof, just because it show him laying out a heel side turn and a toe side turn there is no video showing him link these turns together. It took two Swiss guys 12 years to develope techniques and equipment that would allow you to do this. Linking these jsut wasn't possible until very recently. It's impossible that someone did it in '89, I mean that's sixteen years ago! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philfell Posted March 17, 2005 Report Share Posted March 17, 2005 tpalka no one is saying that P&J aren't great snowboarder with a very fluid style that is pleasent to watch. And I certainly hope they look more graceful than a guy in '89, that's called progression. I would certainly hope in 16 years the level of riding has increased and people know can ride harder, faster, and more controled than those of the past. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nils Posted March 17, 2005 Report Share Posted March 17, 2005 also for the lucky people that have the Hard Attack movie from 93-94, it featured hot riders of the time (most of them ISF WC guys) and they did not link them despite their crazyness and agressiveness! Lieuthagui in that movie ( the dude doing the craziest moves/jumps is a good example of what the boards allowed then: laid frontsides and exiting the turn on the last inches of the edge, using the pop of the board as a spring to recover. Am going to watch that movie tonight:! N. as for getting back to the original subject of the topic! : Modern monoskies can carve pretty impressively, but since a. hips get in the way b. pressure is only applied on the side of the boot it would need a very soft and torsion strong model with a centered radius and not too much pintail to be able to carve very low... I'll try to ask a friend of mine that is riding a swellpanik monoski that carves good what he thinks of it... I think some snowsharks and Duret models can do this too.... We've even let Duret use our Swoard molds for monoskies before the factory closed... Most 168 models made that way were sold to japanese carving freaks :)... I guess it would be fun to try to ask Sean Martin to put inserts side to side so someone can try monskiing a freecarve or a 20cm wide alpine board.... Lots of guys here on monoskies still use non releasable bindings such as the old emery pods.. Nils Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Dold Posted March 17, 2005 Report Share Posted March 17, 2005 Hey Lee - I've been riding for about 4 years and I can do a turn like that but only on toeside and in good conditions. I can slide my ass on the heelside sometimes but not too often. When I'm able to pull it off it's a real rush, it's really fun. But I think it looks sloppy and the really good riders try to use a more balanced approach more often, like in the second pic. To me that looks more impressive than simply being layed out. I'm sure it works better in less-than-optimal conditions. I'm terrible at it but I'm working on it. I don't think anyone addressed your thoughts about using a monoski, I've never ridden one but I think it's pretty important to have fore/aft leverage and control, which you don't have with the monoski. Personally I don't think I'd be able to carve with one because I need to be able to bias my weight forward at the beginning of the turn, and progressing to the rear during the turn, and at the same time brace myself fore/aft to handle bumps and ruts. Also I think the board would be bent into kind of an odd shape, wouldn't it? More like a V? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ARCrider Posted March 17, 2005 Report Share Posted March 17, 2005 I think it was ECES'02, either then or at the Killington Carve Fest of the same year. I met Vin Quinneville. Rode with him and watched him perform linked, fluid, graceful laid out turns. He was so laid out that after every run he would have to empty his collar of snow. What really impressed me was that he was in soft boots on a Rad-air tanker 2000. He previously rode hard boots. Sorry, no camera or video footage was taken. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philfell Posted March 17, 2005 Report Share Posted March 17, 2005 Tim, I was totally joking in my previous post about not having video proof. It seems that it's hard to write sarcasm. I was trying to make a joke, because some other people don't beleive it was possible becasue a web site told them so. Clearly if you can lay out a toe side, and lay out a heel side, it isn't that hard to link the two. If you do make it to P.C. before the season ends definatly let me know, I'd be happy to make some turns with you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest mrdogboy Posted March 18, 2005 Report Share Posted March 18, 2005 Originally posted by Steve Dold Hey Lee - I've been riding for about 4 years and I can do a turn like that but only on toeside and in good conditions. I can slide my ass on the heelside sometimes but not too often. When I'm able to pull it off it's a real rush, it's really fun. But I think it looks sloppy and the really good riders try to use a more balanced approach more often, like in the second pic. To me that looks more impressive than simply being layed out. I'm sure it works better in less-than-optimal conditions. I'm terrible at it but I'm working on it. I don't think anyone addressed your thoughts about using a monoski, I've never ridden one but I think it's pretty important to have fore/aft leverage and control, which you don't have with the monoski. Personally I don't think I'd be able to carve with one because I need to be able to bias my weight forward at the beginning of the turn, and progressing to the rear during the turn, and at the same time brace myself fore/aft to handle bumps and ruts. Also I think the board would be bent into kind of an odd shape, wouldn't it? More like a V? I went last night to Blue Mt . in PA for a little 1/2 price ($16) skiing for 4 hours. The conditions SUCKED (little icy) BUT !! I was able to drag my hand a little in some deep carves. So yeah it's possible on a MONOSKI, I'm still waiting for the best conditions..... Should be NEXT YEAR !!! but there is Spring Slush to give me the BITE I need... I Also ripped the edge off the front of my board when I landed a jump ! (F**K) new board too.. Damn it ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Dold Posted March 18, 2005 Report Share Posted March 18, 2005 Sorry about your board. Maybe this is a good time to get rid of that thing and get a real carving board. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest mrdogboy Posted March 18, 2005 Report Share Posted March 18, 2005 Nice try ! I can't the chics dig it.. I already had this board on order and it just came in.. http://www.chronicski.biz/aluflexphiblue.html Also, I have a FAT foot issue and don't want to go thru the pain of finding a set of boots that wouldn't hurt me.... -Lee Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-Sub Posted March 18, 2005 Report Share Posted March 18, 2005 I wonder how one of those things would work if you mounted bindings OUR way? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest mrdogboy Posted March 18, 2005 Report Share Posted March 18, 2005 Some guys have mounted ALPHINE boards in Monoski pattern. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest dragon fly jones Posted March 18, 2005 Report Share Posted March 18, 2005 Hasn't this gone on long enough? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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