utahcarver Posted March 1, 2005 Report Share Posted March 1, 2005 I had a great weekend of carving on spring conditions here in the mountain west and did some experimenting with the cross-overs, cross-unders, and the ever luscious cross-throughs. One of the charges I got was entering an off-camber run on heelside, then blasting to a toeside before I entered the fall line. As I apexed the turn into the deepest part of the carve I had my uphill elbow and both hands on the snow. I wasn't trying to do this. I had found a line that allowed me to be going uphill with my downhill edge and was exploiting the bejesus out of it. The biggest charge came when I committed to the transition from heelside to toeside and literally 'fell' into the hill. That moment of perceived weightlessness/falling was dreamlike. Like grabbing the edge of the bed while you are dreaming you are falling in your sleep. Suddenly, the edge caught and propelled me into the next turn. I was riding an older Rossi twintip 172 with a sidecut of say 10m. It's not a Levitation but, stiffer than the Levee. What are your experiences with falling into the next turn? Is it easier to do from heel to toesides? Or, from toe to heelsides?. Whatever it is, it's magic that most snowboarders know nothing or little of. Snowbasin (WTC) on Monday. Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fleaman Posted March 1, 2005 Report Share Posted March 1, 2005 Going uphill with the downhill edge is one of my favorite tecniques to use on uber steep groomed runs. It is such a great feeling to be slammed down into the turn before your board catches up. It is also a great way to scrub excess speed. We have a run here at Apex called Chute. It is a steep 4 groomer wide run but it is about 4 of 5 feet higher on the sides than in the middle so you climb the sides of the run and push your turns around going down across the middle then up the other side. It makes for some spectacular layed out carving. I usually fill my patrol radio pocket with snow on that one.:D I am going to start bagging my radio because it does'nt seem to work untill it dries out again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest jeremiah Posted March 1, 2005 Report Share Posted March 1, 2005 Fleaman--what do you mean by going uphill on the downhill edge? I know about doing snappy edge transitions where you carve on the downhill edge, and I like to think I do them fairly often, but I can't see how you could go uphill on the downhill edge. Jeremiah Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zone Posted March 1, 2005 Report Share Posted March 1, 2005 Like this? http://home.primus.ca/~johnvu/carving%20uphill.wmv In slow motion Uphill: http://home.primus.ca/~johnvu/lifted_uphill%20on%20downhill%20edge.jpg Transition: http://home.primus.ca/~johnvu/lifted%20transition.jpg Head down: http://home.primus.ca/~johnvu/lifted%20headdown.jpg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ar(angel Posted March 1, 2005 Report Share Posted March 1, 2005 You know I've probably watched that video clip a hundred times an never noticed that about it before! Good work drzone, I'm gonna have to give that a try next time out, so if you don't hear back from me.....don't blame yourself;) Thanks, Paul Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baka Dasai Posted March 1, 2005 Report Share Posted March 1, 2005 Originally posted by utahcarver What are your experiences with falling into the next turn? Is it easier to do from heel to toesides? Yes. I like to try and finish big turns with a final pump to get the board to rocket from one side to the other underneath me. Heelside to toeside works great - I get that great falling feeling. But when I try toeside to heelside I just can't get control of the board. It always ends up rocketing too far across underneath me, and the new heelside turn starts too suddenly, with too much edge angle, and too much body inclination too early in the turn. Either the edge blows out immediately, or I'm whipped into a violently quick turn that I'm not ready for. Bit frustrating 'cos I feel like I'm not able to make full use of the board's power (on one side anyway). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fleaman Posted March 1, 2005 Report Share Posted March 1, 2005 Originally posted by jeremiah Fleaman--what do you mean by going uphill on the downhill edge? I know about doing snappy edge transitions where you carve on the downhill edge, and I like to think I do them fairly often, but I can't see how you could go uphill on the downhill edge. Jeremiah If you play DR Zone's movie link, you will see what it is. You carve around untill you are pointing uphill slightly then you switch edges and carry on a bit uphill untill your board points downhill again. You are only doing it for a split second but it really is a good feeling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest jeremiah Posted March 1, 2005 Report Share Posted March 1, 2005 OK, now I understand. I've been doing that, but never really thought of it as carving uphill before. Now that I think about it, it's probably the main reason I like carving steeps so much. Now if I could only look that smooth doing it. Jeremiah Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarvCanada Posted March 1, 2005 Report Share Posted March 1, 2005 The last ten or so days I've been out, I've had a breakthrough with riding steeps, I'm so addicted now!! I used to be able to get really solid and low on wide greens and easy blues, and for a long time I stayed like that, having loads of fun double arm carving with lots of rotation and popping air out of carves, but any real pitch (maybe over 12-15degrees?) to a run and I would see it as uncarveable, and just "scarve" it with lots of rotation. I would mainly just focus on style on wide greens and blues Oh man at Sugarbush last week it all clicked on the steeps! The sensation of carving them is like nothing else! I started by just drifting a heelside, and then at low speed dive into a toeside and get high on edge really quick. On the steeps, you're at 80 or so degrees relative to the slope in a fraction of the time it takes to get that low on greens and not-so steep blues. The carves are very short radius, and at the apex there's SO much pressure! I needed to take a break after 2 hours, which has never happened to me before. Eventually I got the flow, you draw the carves out until your rising slightly up the fall line, then dive straight into the next carve, getting up high on edge right away. At first there's not too much edge pressure, but as you swing around and across the fall line it builds ridiculously fast, then you have to pop away and dive downhill into the next one, so fun! Heelside is really hard to trust at first. At first, my toesides seemed perfect, but my heelsides were non-existant. On the transition to heelside I'd get out of the flow, face the fall line (counter rotate) and bend at the waist, and the board would PUNISH and chatter. It's the most rewarding sensation I've ever had to get a solid heelside on the steeps, then dive into a toeside. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarvCanada Posted March 1, 2005 Report Share Posted March 1, 2005 that's the only way I could keep a flow, otherwise, punishing chatter. after a line like that, my legs were burning. can't wait for next riding day!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
utahcarver Posted March 2, 2005 Author Report Share Posted March 2, 2005 C2C: Though I have not had a steeps breakthrough yet, your comment about falling ahead of the board nails what I was trying to convey above. Total aggro commitment. In fact, part of what propelled me to start this thread was that I stopped focusing on the daily BS of everyday life and got pissed about having all this brain knowledge of carving and not focusing in on doing it. My motivation was anger at myself for not committing to Michaud's articles, the e-carving movement, and seeing all the 'alleged' snowboarding on my local hill. I've had other moments like this before but this was a moment of clarity that I'll keep for many seasons. I got back to the roots of why I started riding boards of all kinds: Anger. Angst. Youthful angst. Thankfully, I learned how to channel all that energy into laying down lines on snow and concrete instead of doing stupid people tricks. Z-boys typifed this same attitude years before now. Now, I hope to ride the steeps and increase my addiction to aggro riding. Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AK in PA Posted March 2, 2005 Report Share Posted March 2, 2005 You know, I started doing this by accident this year. I came off of my old Burton PJ and oversized boots setup to a much newer Oxygen GS board with TD2s and good fitting boots. Needless to say, the Oxygen rides just a little bit...differently. :) When switching to toeside during the first 2-3 days out on the new setup, I'd often inadvertantly end up throwing my body down across the fall line well ahead of my board. Many times, I'd slam into the snow so hard it hurt (almost like catching an edge), but a split second later the board would carve tightly around and I'd be back on my feet and diving for the heelside. I'd get a really weird weightless sensation, sometimes punctuated by getting the snot knocked out of me. The flow would be be pretty much seamless, unlike a wipeout with lagged recovery. The turning radius is always pretty tight when this happens. I had this pegged for some sort of "false" Eurocarve that was born from overly aggressive riding/premature weight shift. Maybe not? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Vu Posted March 2, 2005 Report Share Posted March 2, 2005 This technique was described on extremecarving.com since day one of their website. It's indeed a great feeling. As shown with the pix by Drzone, it's like doing an off-the-lip in surfing. Peter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest neilswingler Posted March 2, 2005 Report Share Posted March 2, 2005 The video from the extremecarving 2004 Zinal event (it's on edonkey) has some good demonstrations. Near the beginning is an overhead shot of Patrice. It's quite dramatic how much he accelerates down the fall line. There is another part nearer the end where the rider is traversing extremely slowly. He seems to just let himself fall over, puts both hands down and carves around them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobby Buggs Posted March 2, 2005 Report Share Posted March 2, 2005 :D Ahh the Joys of riding the down hill edge Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corey Posted March 8, 2005 Report Share Posted March 8, 2005 Originally posted by neilswingler The video from the extremecarving 2004 Zinal event (it's on edonkey) has some good demonstrations. Cool! I'm downloading it now using eMule. It's painfully slow at 3.3 kB/s, but it will be done in about 23 hours. ;) The file name is "ECS04 Zinal longersion.mov" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
utahcarver Posted March 9, 2005 Author Report Share Posted March 9, 2005 I spent monday riding at Snowbasin, Utah with the WTC. If you miss SES you gotta get to WTC in Utah. I was able to ride new boards some of which will be in my quiver in years to come. See hardbooter.com, Donek.com, and here for more information. The point I want to make is that (while riding monday) I kept my shoulders angulated and let my arms/hands stay out in front of my body. This allowed me to 'guide' my line and project out onto the snow my intended direction. On many turns, I was able let my upper body cross the centerline of my board prior to leaving the previous turn and put the board into transition (which would have been otherwise unattainable without). I noticed Kirk's (from Layton) style is similar but with one huge exception: He stays VERY low to the board and hill. Almost like a turtles' back. Back rounded over, arms out in front, very low center of gravity, a lot of cross under. The guy rips, and so does his dad. To some of you this is simply academic. To me, it's a self-discovery that had me giggling while I was at my work desk today. I couldn't focus on anything work-related. I just kept thinking of making more turns. Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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