barryj Posted February 3, 2016 Report Share Posted February 3, 2016 (edited) In fine tuning your BTS setup ...if there is a norm......should the tension settings be identical on both boots? In trying to analyze my riding, I think not as the front boot is powering a differant (aspect of the?) turn compared to the back boot?? Mine are set identical for no reason other than I don't know any better. It works and I'm having a blast...but looking to make improvements - See photo - So if there is "Norm" in BTS setup - ie: Front foot BTS is set with less tension on top spring and more play on bottom spring...as compare to the rear boot....please let me know. Also if there is a link, sticky or thread on Fine tuning BTS that I've missed over the years please enlighten me - Any insight would be appreciated - and Thanks! Edited February 3, 2016 by barryj Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barryj Posted February 3, 2016 Author Report Share Posted February 3, 2016 Thanks for the reply Jim - Glad to know I'm not missing some "norm in the setup. I'm really pushing the Swoard Dual 168 and my toe side just dives in and I can EC in..but I rarely can finish without alot of speed. My heel side is a much more concentrated effort. I was thinkng my BTS setup/spring settings or color may be limiting me?? I love the way I can use the same board for Charging Carving and only have the boots buckled half way tight....(with my stiffer Virus UFC I had to crank the boots down to the last degree - Ugh!) or for Pow and just loosen the buckles a setting or two. So considering the Duality - and I want a hard charginh heel side...to get a more vertical front foot would you lower the nut on the bottom spring? Also at 6"2' and 225 lbs. and /or my preferred riding would you suggest changing out any of the springs for softer yellow and/or stiffer red springs?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SunSurfer Posted February 3, 2016 Report Share Posted February 3, 2016 BTS allows adjustment of heel & toe, forward and back movement in the boot. How to best set up the BTS will depend upon how you ride your board. I'll explain what I mean. At SES 2015 I went on Joerg's Pureboarding Clinic. I changed my bindings from my usual 65 degrees front & 60 rear to 48 degrees rear, as far as I could get my foot across the board without boot out. Joerg explained that in his technique the rider pressured the toeside edge with the rear foot toes, and the heelside edge with the front foot heel. And for me, with my feet more across the board than usual it worked. He was absolutely right! So I rode like that for a while, and then experimented, gradually bringing my rear foot back to its' usual 60 degrees setting. Around 55 degrees I noted a transition. At angles less than that I rode out of the heels and toes of my boots to apply edge pressure. At higher angles, i.e. at my normal 65/60 degrees I pressured the edge out of the sides of my boots. Many riders on Bomber describe their riding style & binding angles in a way that suggests they apply edge pressure out of their heels and toes. Jim's description of BTS settings may well be a good start for this style of riding. I prefer riding higher binding angles, and so I set up my BTS quite differently from Jim's description. Currently I ride with BTS only on my rear boot, while my front boot is locked in a nearly vertical position. I feel this allows me to apply front foot pressure in a very controlled way, while the rear boot is left very soft to allow a low body position when I get into the "stacked" body position Richard advocated in his Steeps Clinic at SES 2015. BTS adjusts fore and aft movement. How to set it up depends upon what you want your boots to do in that direction of movement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barryj Posted February 3, 2016 Author Report Share Posted February 3, 2016 Thanks for that info Surfer Sounds like I should adjust my front foot more to the vertical like you two have mentioned and go from there......... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeffrey Day Posted February 3, 2016 Report Share Posted February 3, 2016 (edited) I have a question for you barryj : Did you ride you boots with the 5 position mechanism before switching to the BTS? What I did to my boots before I took off my 5 position mechanism is to put each boot in the riding locked position of each boot and make a mark using a Sharpie just so that I had a rough idea on how the boot cuff is positioned when locked. I ride goofy so my front(right) boot lock position is at 2 and my rear(left) boot lock position is at 4. So when I have installed my BTS, I have a rough idea on how to adjust the springs to mimic the boot cuff position. Plus, me being OCD, I measured the distance between the top and bottom bolt adjusters to make the tension the same between both boots to start. My starting measurement was 110mm. And then I'll start to tinker with the adjuster bolts to find a out what feels good to me. I snapped a pic of how my boots are set up at the moment. ( Sorry for the sideways pic!) And as everyone else will say, it's a very personal adjustment. There is no real norm. Trial and error! Edited February 3, 2016 by Jeffrey Day Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beckmann AG Posted February 3, 2016 Report Share Posted February 3, 2016 I'm really pushing the Swoard Dual 168 and my toe side just dives in and I can EC in..but I rarely can finish without alot of speed.My heel side is a much more concentrated effort. I was thinkng my BTS setup/spring settings or color may be limiting me?? Odds are good the issue goes well beyond the BTS configuration. For the most part, there's little practical use for a full BTS on the front boot. Can you clarify as to whether or not you have difficulty executing single turns to toe and heel side, or is it a problem of linking them continuously? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barryj Posted February 3, 2016 Author Report Share Posted February 3, 2016 Hey Jeff, I did ride with the 5 position but found it limiting.so trying the BTS and found that a large improvement in my riding. A more vertical front foot will probably make POW a little more difficult but we will see. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barryj Posted February 3, 2016 Author Report Share Posted February 3, 2016 Beck, No problem linking turns...it's just my heel side isn't as sharp/tight/aggressve?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beckmann AG Posted February 3, 2016 Report Share Posted February 3, 2016 That being the case, if the front BTS is allowing your knee to go 'back of center' over your ankle, then odds are good the bend in the board is being moved aft, and the board is twisting such that the edge angle at the front is less than the angle at the rear. Both of which will open the turn radius. Boots should have some flex forward, but not backward. Similarly, you might want to swap out the Sidewinder front for a conventional, at least for a day or two. Ideally, can you prompt a lackey to shoot a few minutes of video? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barryj Posted February 3, 2016 Author Report Share Posted February 3, 2016 Beck - Uh......then I should adjust the front BTS to more vertical? I don't want have to buy one binder . Hard Booters and Film Lackey's are seriously in short supply out here with all the POW we have been getting!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beckmann AG Posted February 3, 2016 Report Share Posted February 3, 2016 On the front boot, establish a forward lean that allows for some flexion, but no so much that your quadriceps are involved in supporting your weight. In other words, as if you had to stand around all day with the boots on, without leaning on the plastic. (If you do this barefoot, and observe side-to in a full length mirror, you should notice that the center of your knee joint is ahead of the ankle protrusion. The cuff should be a positive backstop to prevent the knee from moving 'back of' the ankle.) Then mark the shell, and wind up the BTS springs so as to hold the cuff in that location. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barryj Posted February 3, 2016 Author Report Share Posted February 3, 2016 Beck Would that be winding up/tighting up the top spring or bottom spring on the front foot?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beckmann AG Posted February 3, 2016 Report Share Posted February 3, 2016 Both. Each end against the center, so to speak. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barryj Posted February 3, 2016 Author Report Share Posted February 3, 2016 Beck I don't get much movement towards vertical from tightening or untighting the spings on the front foot. The only movement towards vertical was by unwinding the bottom nut and tighting the top nut all the way tight - Does that sound right?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beckmann AG Posted February 3, 2016 Report Share Posted February 3, 2016 If that puts you closer to a comfortably flexed leg, and that moves the cuff closer to 'vertical' then yes. Point being, you have to move one end or the other, and then once you have the cuff location you want, evenly tighten the nuts until the springs are nearly bound against each other. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barryj Posted February 4, 2016 Author Report Share Posted February 4, 2016 Ok......."move one end or the other, and then once you have the cuff location you want, evenly tighten the nuts until the springs are nearly bound against each other" I must be missing something.....I could only get a little towards vert by totally unwinding the bottom springs nut. I don't understand "evenly tighten the nuts until the springs are nearly bound against each other"...............I'm visual.....anybody got a photo of this process to Vertical?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
digger jr Posted February 4, 2016 Report Share Posted February 4, 2016 I had to wack off about the height of the adjusting nut out of the short spring on my front foot, or you can remove the lower adjusting nut all together to get more vertical. You can shim with some washers if needed. I'm at about the #4 position I think on the front. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barryj Posted February 4, 2016 Author Report Share Posted February 4, 2016 Yeah Jim - that's all I could do for the front foot springs...but it hardly made any movement on the cuff. I drew a line on the cuff before and after and making bottom spring all loose and top spring all tight on top it barely covered the marked line! Digger - Hmmm.....Good idea........could I just use a yellow top spring to get more vertical?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
digger jr Posted February 4, 2016 Report Share Posted February 4, 2016 you'd want the yellow on the bottom, no?if they are shorter than a blue, then you would be more upright if you cranked the top one tight. Do the springs bottom out when you tighten the upper one all the way? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corey Posted February 4, 2016 Report Share Posted February 4, 2016 Barry, are you coming to ATC? Let's go for a few runs and see if we can't sort out your setup and approach. I won't even pretend to be in the same league as Beckmann, but maybe I can help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beckmann AG Posted February 5, 2016 Report Share Posted February 5, 2016 ^League of ordinary gentlemen? Barryj, Remove both springs. Determine your forward lean, and mark the shell at the lower edge of the cuff, at the back of the boot. Replace the lower spring with a stack of washers, piece of tubing, chunk of hollow Delrin, or similar spacer of sufficient size to allow the cuff to stop at the mark on the shell when you pull back on the cuff. Replace the upper spring, and tighten the top nut to preload that spring for your desired forward flex. Then test your theory regarding BTS and its role in your Euro-carving. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barryj Posted February 5, 2016 Author Report Share Posted February 5, 2016 Hey Guys - Had a Great test day at Heavenly! Changing the front foot BTS to more vert front foot (a 1/4 inch difference at best!) was a noticable improvement on making the heel side more aggressive/stable/tighter..... and for whatever reason, now I can EC toeside at much slower speeds than before and, and I was able to hook up and finish two in a row! Even with this tight top Blue spring and loose bottom Blue spring on the front foot I still am 3/4 of an inch away from Vertical. I know I don't want to be dead vertical, but It seems if I replaced the top Blue spring with the shorter Yellow I could get the cuff a little more towards Vert...........am I correct in this thinking?? FYI: my rear foot is 1 inch from vert. Corey - Alas my plans have changed and I'm not gonna be able to make it for this years ATC Whoop it up for me, will ya! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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