SWriverstone Posted January 26, 2005 Report Share Posted January 26, 2005 Hi All: What's the technique used for getting the time-lapse images of boarders in turns? I have a digital camera that will shoot 3-5 frames per second...but I'm wondering how you get the background so clean? Are you locking the camera down on a stationary tripod? (To prevent the background from moving.) Is there any Photoshop wizardry involved? (I work with Photoshop every day...so I feel I should know this, so maybe I'm overlooking something obvious?) Or is this done from DV video and superimposing frames? This seems like a great learning aid, and I'd love to try it on myself! Thanks, Scott Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest silversurf Posted January 26, 2005 Report Share Posted January 26, 2005 INADPE (I'm Not A Digital Photo Expert) But...tri-pod locked down w/o image stabilization taking sequential high speed pics seems like the logical (or frame grabs off video, which is the same thing but lower res). In Photoshop you'd create an alpha key or matte of the background (since it never changes) and the rider in question would be subtracted from it for each "frame". This is probably the "dirty" way to do it, as I'm willing to guess there's a plug-in or 3rd party software that will do it automatically. Maybe even some cameras will. In analog world, there's a funky lab/exposure process for this. -c Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philw Posted January 26, 2005 Report Share Posted January 26, 2005 I think the word is "sequences". Just shoot a sequence hand held. Nothing fancy with exposure or tripods or anything else. Get it all into Photoshop, then pick one or two shots to use as a "background". Typically one shot will be enough, but you may have to stitch a couple. Then take each intermediate frame one at a time. Drag it into the PS document with the background. It'll appear as a new layer. Create a layer mask and mask out everything except the rider (first fill the mask with black, then use the brush tool to "paint" the rider back in with white). You may have to move the layer about to get the rider in the right place. Flatten, resize, sharpen, save for web. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SWriverstone Posted January 26, 2005 Author Report Share Posted January 26, 2005 Thanks for the info---I'd thought of doing it in Photoshop via masked layers...but that seems time-intensive (though probably easier with a white background). Still, the end result is very informative! Probably just as easy for me to learn by getting someone to videotape a run and playing it back frame-by-frame... Scott Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gecko Posted January 26, 2005 Report Share Posted January 26, 2005 I tend to use masks and then delete everything but the subject...a tripod makes life easier as you don't get any screwed horizons but it truth I'm lazy and don't like to spend any more time on things than I have to, my job revolves around Photoshop literally, so I make my photographers do things in an as organized manner as possible...Panning is OK just keep everything in one plane. Another thing we have done with some success it to take screengrab with our DV cameras but those make make my D70 look like a disposable and I wouldn't consider taking one to a ski-slope Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boostertwo Posted January 26, 2005 Report Share Posted January 26, 2005 If you find the aforementioned Photoshop techniques too time/labor intensive (they are), you might want to find an area that uses special software to create the sequences. You might want to check out Dartfish, which has a feature called 'Stro-motion' that will create quick photosequences. We use it for staff training and with guests at Vail/Beaver Creek and I know several snowboard schools offer Dartfish imaging as part of their instruction packages. We have an on-mountain Dartfish station at Vail, for example, where riders can get instant sequences and useful feedback on their performance. I'm sure if you contacted a Dartfish rep, you could find the area closest to you that offers the software for snowboard training. <img src="http://tinypic.com/1glvew"> Keep in mind the composited images are not tack-sharp as those created in Photoshop and are unsuitable for high quality prints, but work very well as a quick way to produce a serviceable sequence for training. Other software that is used for snowsports training includes Swinger and V-1. Both are useful, and have cool features to review and improve riding performance, but to my knowledge, only Dartfish offers the automated sequencing feature. Hope this helps! B-2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bschurman Posted January 26, 2005 Report Share Posted January 26, 2005 I use both Photoshop CS and Photoshop Elements 2.0 and I am by no means an expert but I would think that the photomerge feature in Elements would make quick work of the sequences. I have used it for panaromas from vacation photos and it's super easy to use. Just point and click your way to happiness! I am going to be shooting some carving photos tomorrow and I will report back on the photomerge feature. ->Ben Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SWriverstone Posted January 26, 2005 Author Report Share Posted January 26, 2005 Interesting info on the various software apps that will create stroboscopic imagery---I was clueless about those! Here's another one: http://www.simi.com/en/products/index.html The only problem I noticed with a few of these software products is that they're WAY expensive! (One product, SwingerPlus, costs over $2,000!) Clearly they're not aimed at individuals, but giant, deep-pocketed corporations and schools. Surely there must be some inexpensive (read "shareware!") software apps out there that will *only* do stroboscopic image merging? (I plan to dig around some more...) I say this because photo "stitching" software is dirt-cheap these days...and merging images into a stroboscopic image isn't really any different from a computing perspective. Scott Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MozzMann Posted January 26, 2005 Report Share Posted January 26, 2005 My Nikon F80 D-80 in the US will do this in camera by allowing for multi exposure for a set number of frames underexposed so you don't blow out the background, without advancing the film. Tripod Multi layer in Photoshop and simply rub out the holes for each image you want to keep and leave the background . Mozz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted January 26, 2005 Report Share Posted January 26, 2005 Great thread. I just ordered a camera that takes 10 fps. I am so excited, but I don't know jack about photography. This thread should really get me started. Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack M Posted January 27, 2005 Report Share Posted January 27, 2005 Originally posted by Phil Great thread. I just ordered a camera that takes 10 fps. I am so excited, but I don't know jack about photography. This thread should really get me started. Thanks. Wow, is that 10fps at full resolution, or just in movie mode? What camera? I'll post a couple of my attempts at 2.5fps sequences below. They're weak compared to boostertwo's, but it's fun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack M Posted January 27, 2005 Report Share Posted January 27, 2005 Shred Gruumer same, cropped Helmut Karvelow Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarvCanada Posted January 27, 2005 Report Share Posted January 27, 2005 YES! MORE! MORE! I'm bringing a digi-cam to the hills every once and a while, hopefully I can contribute soon! It seems the last one was shot in 3 pics while the camera was rotated to the right? The woods look like they have 2 distinct bends in them, and the carver appears to be moving in a straight line, even though he is carving very hard on edge... weird. The other 2 really show the carve though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joecarve Posted January 27, 2005 Report Share Posted January 27, 2005 Originally posted by SWriverstone Thanks for the info---I'd thought of doing it in Photoshop via masked layers...but that seems time-intensive (though probably easier with a white background). Yeah, contrast is very handy for selection. Don't do it all with brushes on the mask - way too painful. I'm a total hack at this stuff, but try the following on each layer: Launch Select->Color Range... pick a medium white somewhere on the snow (dialog preview will show what the selection will be) , hit ok. You'll now have a selection on the doc. Hit the mask button on the layers palette, which will likely give you a mask that's a decent starting point if the rider is framed against snow. The mask should be targeted...if not, click on the mask thumbnail. You'll have stuff that isn't masked off of course, so knock those out quickly with a series of marquee and lasso selections and fills with black (cmd/ctrl-del to fill with black, opt/alt-del to fill with white). Now finish off any fine detailing on the mask with brushes. Won't be perfect, but you can make quick work of it. Slide the layers around to line up and finish off as Phil describes...though you shouldn't have to flatten before SaveForWeb...output will be composited.... joe... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest chillaxin.nl Posted January 27, 2005 Report Share Posted January 27, 2005 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philw Posted January 27, 2005 Report Share Posted January 27, 2005 [..]...though you shouldn't have to flatten before SaveForWeb...output will be composited.... Correct, but you have to separately sharpen each layer if you do that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gecko Posted January 27, 2005 Report Share Posted January 27, 2005 folks KISS rules...don't mask out what you don't want mask what you do want and invert the selection, run a replace color to fade out ares and use the magic wand to select and delete...if you spend more that 5 minutes er image you are wasting time better spent elseware (F.I. surfing Bomberonline from the middle of the pacific ocean like me right now) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derf Posted January 27, 2005 Report Share Posted January 27, 2005 Jack, this looks like Shred on Zie Scalpel by the shape of the nose, could you confirm? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted January 27, 2005 Report Share Posted January 27, 2005 Jack, It is a Konica-Minolta Z3 it has " UHS (Ultra High Speed) continuous advance: Approximately 10 frames per second (1280 x 960)" So it is not full resolution, but you can go slower and get higher resolution. That is supposed to be actual pictures, not movie. In movie mode, it takes 30 fps. Again, I don't know anything about photography, I just saw that rate and thought that it would be great for snowboarding and DH/FR mountain biking. Now I have a resource to learn how to make sequences. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack M Posted January 27, 2005 Report Share Posted January 27, 2005 Originally posted by CarvCanada It seems the last one was shot in 3 pics while the camera was rotated to the right? The woods look like they have 2 distinct bends in them, and the carver appears to be moving in a straight line, even though he is carving very hard on edge... weird. The other 2 really show the carve though Yes, the one of Helmut was about a 90 degree pan, so it is distorted. The trail is straight, and he is making a round carve. However that is a 196 F2, so it makes pretty long carves, and he was hauling ass. I love that term, hauling ass. My cam takes sequences at 2.5fps, so he covered all that distance in about 1.2 seconds. The one of Shred was taken from further away, so the camera didn't pan very much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack M Posted January 27, 2005 Report Share Posted January 27, 2005 Originally posted by Derf Jack, this looks like Shred on Zie Scalpel by the shape of the nose, could you confirm? Das Amputator 201. One of Shred's many boards that I won't ride. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack M Posted January 27, 2005 Report Share Posted January 27, 2005 Originally posted by Phil Jack, It is a Konica-Minolta Z3 Should be a great cam. Check out the "Retouching" forum (and others) at dpreview.com for an even better resource. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eos4life Posted January 27, 2005 Report Share Posted January 27, 2005 Hi, Jack! 8.5 fps Full res with the Canon Mark II. Yep, you did read 8.5 fps in full 8 megapix of resolution with a buffer of about 40 jpeg images.... This camera is truly a beast. Being a DSLR, you can use nice lenses for optimal picture quality and realize awesome photo composite later on with your computer. This comes with a price, cash being one, weight, huge memory card and endless time playing on your computer at night, I forgot one, the fear of having someone break in to your car to steal THE PRECIOUS!!!! Carve hard and prosper, Francois. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gecko Posted January 27, 2005 Report Share Posted January 27, 2005 Originally posted by eos4life Hi, Jack! 8.5 fps Full res with the Canon Mark II. Yep, you did read 8.5 fps in full 8 megapix of resolution with a buffer of about 40 jpeg images.... This camera is truly a beast. Being a DSLR, you can use nice lenses for optimal picture quality and realize awesome photo composite later on with your computer. This comes with a price, cash being one, weight, huge memory card and endless time playing on your computer at night, I forgot one, the fear of having someone break in to your car to steal THE PRECIOUS!!!! Carve hard and prosper, Francois. Nice as that is I'm a Nikon Man...we just got a new toy to play with until we decide to actually buy one Nikon D2X 8fps at 7MP and 5fps at 12.2MP...if it didn't cost more than my motorcyle I might actually think about buying one...but alas I'll live with my D70...it is nice to have in the shop though...my top 2 shooters flip a coin on a daily basis for the rights to use it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Gendzwill Posted January 27, 2005 Report Share Posted January 27, 2005 Originally posted by Jack Michaud Das Amputator 201. One of Shred's many boards that I won't ride. He was cutting one serious trench with that beast - it almost looks like he could hang up that little nose in his own trench. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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