BXFR70 Posted January 10, 2014 Report Share Posted January 10, 2014 I want to chime in here, as I have gone through a lot ofwork with snowboard boots. I am just goingto tell you about myself. <o:pI tried hardboot snowboarding at 2010 ECES. I tried the demo Trac 325's with 5 positionforward lean, with the non thermo liner. They were okay, I did not really get them all adjusted perfectly for me,but they did the job, to try it etc. <o:pI ordered some Trac 700's, I was told they fit the same,they never fit well, particularly with the stock thermo liner. I also bought a BTS after reading/hearing how great they were. I was not unimpressedwith the BTS itself, but the boots were so soft, softer than Burton Driver XBoots fore and after at least. Laterally, they were stiffer, but once into my soft bindings, that I had dialed exactly how I wanted with Driver X or Malamutes, the hard boots werenever that much stiffer, even with just the five position forward lean installed. <o:pFor the tracks to work for me, I needed to put quite a bit of money into them and change liners. <o:p</o <o:pSo, at the end of the year, I was pretty much giving up on the boots, as they were not stiff enough for me, as I had gotten a lot better,I was sort of noticing more about the boots. I was also getting a little bored with hard boots, and the sort of the one dimension. Also, I ride in a racestyle, I do not finish carves, and in the past, I rode with the same style with soft boots, but would just ride fast and have fun. <o:pI talked to some bootfitters, and Beckmann really helped me out as the bootfitter I had used was MIA. My bootfitter called me back kind of randomly, and was familiar with my foot, and recommended the Head Raptor RS 130 over the Lange for my foot as aboot that I could try and continue to ski with, as I had decided that too. <o:pSo, I bought some on a really good sale, at the end of theyear, knowing I was going to be skiing mainly this year anyway, but they fit myfoot shape extremely well, a narrower last, but I did not need to do anythingwith them, as the shape fit me. <o:pI did snowboard with them, and finally, hardbootsnowboarding felt like what I thought it should and had been expecting from dayone.<o:p</o <o:pI now am skiing, and the movements and reasons my feet usedto hurt does not come into play skiing as much, so, in hindsight, I probably shouldhave switched awhile ago. <o:pTo what was said above I really think it depends on what theperson is trying to do with the boots, and also their skill level and physical makeup.<o:p</o</o</o</o</o</o</o</o</o</o Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beckmann AG Posted January 11, 2014 Report Share Posted January 11, 2014 Then why not using the right tool? Clearly, for some riders, a ski boot is the 'right tool'. If the 'official' product was better suited for the job at hand, they would be using it. ...my fastest runs this season have been on my Kryptons. If they worked as well for ski racing I'd only have to take one pair of boots to Snowmass for the Nationals. Approach your skiing as though you have no boots to lean on, as though you are skiing in a pair of Chuck Taylors, and you'll save on airfare. And you'll go faster as well. T61: Glad that worked out for you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lonbordin Posted January 11, 2014 Report Share Posted January 11, 2014 Since we're on the topic... Traditional ski boot vs. Cabrio design (Flexon 3 piece). What's the major differences when it comes to snowboarding? This isn't the ski boot vs hard snowboard boot argument... That horse is to death. I'm interested in why one design vs the other. What's the perceived benefit? This is an area that doesn't get enough discussion on BOL, IMHO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beckmann AG Posted January 13, 2014 Report Share Posted January 13, 2014 ^ Overlap shells can provide better support, as they tend to have more 'shape' to the last. Monolithic shells tend to crack just above the 2nd buckle (mostly on the rear foot), can flex in diagonal shear, and are harder to get into and out of. (Less of an issue with multi-density shells). Some have ankle rivets in the 'wrong' location, which allows very little forward flex. Most would need some modification for long term use. Many different shell configurations. Flip-tongue shells tend to be more 'boxy' in last, with less distinct ankle pockets. The have more, and more even flex, relying on the tongue rather than plastic deformation for resistance. Interchangeable tongues provide easier flex tuning. They may be less rigid laterally, and may crack at the front of the shell behind the tongue hinge. Easier entry and exit. Not many different shell options. Could be used without modification. If they fit well, the Flexon style is probably the better choice for most users. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lonbordin Posted January 14, 2014 Report Share Posted January 14, 2014 "Quality" you say- http://www.bomberonline.com/VBulletin/showthread.php?28038-Carving-with-ski-hard-boots&p=299539#post299539 I told you people this is a dead horse. :rolleyes: Hypothetical... one is willing (wanting) to try ski boots. One cannot fit into the 98mm last width, not happening. Any particular boot that's come out the last couple of years that would be recommended to try? Want to see some ski boot action photos (covers all types of boots)- http://www.bomberonline.com/VBulletin/showthread.php?28038-Carving-with-ski-hard-boots&p=305934#post305934 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beckmann AG Posted January 14, 2014 Report Share Posted January 14, 2014 That 98mm last measurement might be for a 26-27, then scaled for larger/smaller sizes. Or maybe not. When in doubt, there's always heat and hydraulics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lonbordin Posted January 14, 2014 Report Share Posted January 14, 2014 I, like most alpine enthusiast I'd wager, do not live near persons with knowledge or the tools to do the fit procedure. Yes, the world is going to h___ in a hand basket. Also I'm 104 mm wide un-weighted (114mm weighted) and 289mm long. I can fit into my son's (he's grown SO freakin' much since you last saw him, ~6'1" now!) Atomic Overload 100's (28.5) but I'm touching (scrunching) everywhere toe to heel and side to side with those stock "liners". They're 100 flex... I'm thinking of just trying them... what da' hell. All it takes is a little binding adjustment. Where did I put the standard bails? I'll imagine I'm in Chucks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueB Posted January 15, 2014 Report Share Posted January 15, 2014 (edited) Want to see some ski boot action photos... Here, all applications... Ok, no pow shots... Everyone is to busy on those days :) Edited January 15, 2014 by BlueB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beckmann AG Posted January 15, 2014 Report Share Posted January 15, 2014 I, like most alpine enthusiast I'd wager, do not live near persons with knowledge or the tools to do the fit procedure. Yes, the world is going to h___ in a hand basket.Also I'm 104 mm wide un-weighted (114mm weighted) and 289mm long. I can fit into my son's (he's grown SO freakin' much since you last saw him, ~6'1" now!) Atomic Overload 100's (28.5) but I'm touching (scrunching) everywhere toe to heel and side to side with those stock "liners". They're 100 flex... I'm thinking of just trying them... what da' hell. All it takes is a little binding adjustment. Where did I put the standard bails? I'll imagine I'm in Chucks. Right, so next you'll tell me you don't have access to a jump shear, corner notcher or bead roller... Rossi makes the Alltrack Pro 130, but that is only 100mm. Misses the mark in a few other areas... Try W's boot on the front foot and see what that feels like. (Probably too soft @100). You'll probably want to change the toe lift a bit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lonbordin Posted January 16, 2014 Report Share Posted January 16, 2014 Right, so next you'll tell me you don't have access to a jump shear, corner notcher or bead roller...Rossi makes the A[/color]lltrack Pro 130, but that is only 100mm. Misses the mark in a few other areas... Try W's boot on the front foot and see what that feels like. (Probably too soft @100). You'll probably want to change the toe lift a bit. I'll make sure that my knee is centered and my stance is golden. I DIY everything else... why not! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lonbordin Posted January 16, 2014 Report Share Posted January 16, 2014 Here, all applications... Nice shots... but it's really hard to see that ski boot action! Pull up those pants! ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MR. JOHN DEERE ! Posted January 16, 2014 Report Share Posted January 16, 2014 (edited) Nice shots... but it's really hard to see that ski boot action! Pull up those pants! ;) 4 GUYS on T32 are rockin the vintage Raichles, so far so good. Like anything else are they perfect ? no, but pretty dam close. My favorite feature is I can switch between my skis and board without switching boots, and with screaming 3-5 year old kids, that want to go shredding and not wait for dad to go through his 30 minute process of getting into his boots just rite, it's a bonus. Here's a couple action photos on a training day last March. Edited January 16, 2014 by MR. JOHN DEERE ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patmoore Posted January 16, 2014 Report Share Posted January 16, 2014 Full Tilt makes two models with a 102 last, the Booter and the High Five. Our shop only has a handful of the Booters left in stock and none of High Fives. I have a normal width foot. If I hadn't been able to get the Kryptons I'm presently using I would have gone with the Full Tilt Classic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beckmann AG Posted January 16, 2014 Report Share Posted January 16, 2014 T32= Team Stihl? Full-Tilt Elasto-Start Magnum AV? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SunSurfer Posted January 17, 2014 Report Share Posted January 17, 2014 (edited) Have to say that the 2014 Nordica Transfire and Freestyle boots look like interesting options for hardbooters, possibly even the Hell and Back Hike EXP touring boots. The Freestyle models have particular potential for tweaking with apparently all the buckles and canting mechanisms attached with screws rather than rivets. On these models the 45 degree angle instep buckle is attached to the shell at the same point as the cuff pivot, rather than separate and higher on the FireArrow. Edited January 17, 2014 by SunSurfer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lonbordin Posted January 17, 2014 Report Share Posted January 17, 2014 So my son bailed on skiing with dad for LazerTag so I had the unforeseen opportunity to challenge the FUD* surrounding ski boots on a race board with his boots. He'll never know . *FUD- Side note: I'm not a skier, only skied about half a dozen times. So for me I don't know ski boots first hand. I've read a lot and purchased boots for my wife and son but that's way different than wearing/using them. It was time for me to walk a mile in another mans shoes. So step one was to install the standard bails (I did not change my angles/cant/etc): Step two was to make sure everything fit, was centered, fiddling time: The boots have more similarities than differences(Ski boot Atomic Overload 100 28.5, Snowboard boot Deeluxe Indy 29.5): The board is the 185 Donek REV prototype I purchased this season with a Bomber 4mm plate. Pretty sure you can't get more raceboard than this... Conditions were sugar on ice (30F) with falling snow (and even an intense 20 minute snowstorm which is a first for me at Paoli), in other words great conditions for around here. My impressions: -DAMN, I'd forgot how slippery ski boots are... With the typical conditions around my home hill I definitely would want something with AT (hiking) soles. -Hard sole definitely translates snow feel to foot, easier to remove the icy build-up between runs. -The Atomic stock liners & footbed SUCK. I missed my Scarpa Intuitions and molded footbeds the whole time. Also, the boots are really tight lengthwise for me. -Standard bails on Catek's are not fun... missed my step-ins. (Paoli is a small hill so I get on and off the lift a lot. Think 6 minutes up and 1+ minute(s) down.) -I've been having some ankle issues on my rear foot with the DeeLuxe. No issues with the Atomics. In this aspect they felt fantastic. -I liked riding in them. Flex was good. Race turns or carving they performed pretty well. I swapped back to the DeeLuxes with the standard bails and rode for some runs then swapped back to the step-in setup. -The Atomics are definitely stiffer than the DeeLuxes and hold my foot much better. The shell fit, while short for me, is better. -The lateral flex differences didn't matter to me one bit. -Time has left my DeeLuxe Indys in the dust. I'm definitely considering the whole spectrum of boots now. If I go the ski boot way I'll need to get better bindings for the standard entry and I'll be avoiding the purely "plastic" sole models. Also I'd likely go for the 28.5 shell to minimize (or even decrease in some models!) sole length changes and the issues that brings to the table. "Yes honey, I need a wider board and different bindings to go with these new ski boots." That won't go over so well. TLDR- Ski boots on raceboards are fine by me and allows one to sample the changing technology in ski boots. Try it, you may like it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeeW Posted January 21, 2014 Report Share Posted January 21, 2014 I'm a bit late but @coach_will_garrow would most definitely be able to help out and answer your questions about ski boots and hardbooting. He's done it a lot over the years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kieran Posted January 21, 2014 Report Share Posted January 21, 2014 The board is the 185 Donek REV prototype I purchased this season with a Bomber 4mm plate.how much convincing would it take to get you to re-test without the bomber plate? ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lonbordin Posted January 22, 2014 Report Share Posted January 22, 2014 how much convincing would it take to get you to re-test without the bomber plate? ;) If I have another opportunity I'll try to make that happen... that said it is infrequent that I go to the hill without my son and those are his only pair of boots! Also as I'm sure you know Sean designs the REV with plate systems in mind so I'm not sure if the re-test would be focused on the boots or the plate... If you're insinuating that the plate makes ski boots more of a possibility to mere mortals where running without would be more difficult, I would agree! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daluv Posted January 31, 2014 Report Share Posted January 31, 2014 here is one problemI have right now with my ski boot. My ski boot used to work A1 with my old ermery binding.... just bought some F2 titanium race binding.... strangely, it doesnt fit right.. need to trim?? Mart Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueB Posted February 1, 2014 Report Share Posted February 1, 2014 Just set them tigter and rear bail would come down onto sole block. Sent from my Nexus S using Tapatalk 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daluv Posted February 1, 2014 Report Share Posted February 1, 2014 well the rear bail is stuck on the plastic part which the old emery does not have... Mart Just set them tigter and rear bail would come down onto sole block. Sent from my Nexus S using Tapatalk 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueB Posted February 1, 2014 Report Share Posted February 1, 2014 Not a problem, it will bend down a bit. Sent from my Nexus S using Tapatalk 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daluv Posted February 1, 2014 Report Share Posted February 1, 2014 ok will try. Mart Not a problem, it will bend down a bit. Sent from my Nexus S using Tapatalk 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daluv Posted February 1, 2014 Report Share Posted February 1, 2014 seems to work ok so far... let see if it will pass the day on the slope! thanx Mart Not a problem, it will bend down a bit. Sent from my Nexus S using Tapatalk 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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