dr. sandman Posted January 15, 2005 Report Share Posted January 15, 2005 A Newbie question, of sorts - please direct me to previous posts if they exist. Ridden hardboots for 3-4 yrs. now, this year is first good equipment set up (no more flexy ski boots and now a FCII ;) ). Question is: For the average carver, what tends to be the ideal speed (which is really hard to judge) or better yet, what incline of slope seems to be best to really start hooking up? My daughter races with the high school and as such we spend the majority of time on diamonds. I can handle any incline without problem, but it seems I spend the better part of my turns on these slopes skidding rather than carving. When we go over to the intermediate runs I can get run-width carves back and forth fairly well. Yet on those carves, I'm not to the point of really feeling the G's or laying it over. Having read much in the wealth of good info here on Bomber, I'm commited to not reach for the snow. Although I haven't any photos or vids to critique my style with, it seems like my body is doing the right things. So what is it, am I on the wrong slope, do I need to be patient and let my skills build, or am I missing something? Respectfully, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fleaman Posted January 16, 2005 Report Share Posted January 16, 2005 I used to carve squares awesomel but the biggest problem I had on Black diamonds was that I was going way too fast after 2 or 3 turns. I did find out however after a while that if I stayed in my carve untill I am going slightly uphill then finish it and start the other one, I would scrub some speed and could carry on down the hill with some normal speed. It made a big difference in my riding. I also found angulation and getting as low as possible on my board made it hook up in any conditon, even ice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baka Dasai Posted January 16, 2005 Report Share Posted January 16, 2005 Originally posted by dr. sandman For the average carver, what tends to be the ideal speed (which is really hard to judge) or better yet, what incline of slope seems to be best to really start hooking up?... ...I can handle any incline without problem, but it seems I spend the better part of my turns on these slopes skidding rather than carving. When we go over to the intermediate runs I can get run-width carves back and forth fairly well. Yet on those carves, I'm not to the point of really feeling the G's or laying it over.... ...am I on the wrong slope, do I need to be patient and let my skills build, or am I missing something? I think your experience is pretty typical. Carving the blacks is difficult. Laying over turns and feeling the G's is difficult. There are a lot of carvers at my local mountain, and its very rare that I see any of them carving the blacks. The problem on the steeps is that a big turn radius makes you pick up too much speed, so you need to turn tightly, and you need to bring the turn all the way across the fall line, and even if you do both of these you'll still end up going fast. It's a hard combination to pull off. When carving steeps I try to remember that there's no time to waste - I can't just ease into the turn - I have to get a lot of pressure on the edge as early as possible. In most turns the pressure is greater in the second half of the turn (and that's where you slide out), so the more pressure I can create in the first half, the easier the second half will be. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dr. sandman Posted January 16, 2005 Author Report Share Posted January 16, 2005 Good stuff from both the Fleaman and Baka. Can't wait to get out and try - my next day up is Tues., and I'll let you know. Any more suggestions?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MozzMann Posted January 16, 2005 Report Share Posted January 16, 2005 I wonder if you are useing enough forward angle on you bindings. The reason for this comment is I was having a similar dilemma and once I steepened the angles things started to come together. I hope this helps Mozz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joecarve Posted January 16, 2005 Report Share Posted January 16, 2005 I'll rate myself as an average carver and I spend most of my time on blue runs; I'm not a high-speed rider. You're making wide turns right now, so you probably don't have the board really high on edge. As you get better at really angulating at the waist until you feel a pinch and making your shoulders parallel to the slope, the board will get higher on edge, your hips will get lower, and you'll start loading it up. My primary ride is the FC171 as well - it'll make some brutally tight turns with a little speed and good technique. Try making some single-sided turns where you just ride one edge all the way around back uphill until you stall. Flip around, then do the same on the other edge. This will allow you to work on driving each turn harder and harder without worrying about the transition. Then go back to hooking them together. If you're riding in Tahoe, check out tahoecarvers. joe... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dr. sandman Posted January 16, 2005 Author Report Share Posted January 16, 2005 Originally posted by MozzMann I wonder if you are useing enough forward angle on you bindings. The reason for this comment is I was having a similar dilemma and once I steepened the angles things started to come together. I hope this helps Mozz 60 frt. 45 back w/ a 19.5 waist Also, thanks Joe - I've been wanting to try that type of drill. I'll post on TC if I'm heading toward the High Big Blue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Gendzwill Posted January 16, 2005 Report Share Posted January 16, 2005 Sure that wasn't a typo? I'd think 45 back would be very uncomfortable and also give you overhang on a 19.5 waist. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jtslalom Posted January 16, 2005 Report Share Posted January 16, 2005 Dr. Sandman, I was a high school ski race coach and spent almost all my time on diamond slopes. I still do. I avoid greens and sometimes ride blue squares when riding slalom boards. I used to slide my turns on the diamonds to slow down because I would reach mach 5 after only a couple of turns. The problem was I wasn't rounding my turns and using transition to slow me down. Stay as low and forward as possible keeping your weight over the front foot. As you turn, make sure to really round them and come across the slope perpendicular to it. This will cause you to slow down by not actually going down the hill. You should end each turn by coming across the slope. To do this you MUST stay low and really get up on your edge. Ofcourse this will take good technique but once you feel it start to happen, you will understand what needs to be done. Good Luck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ar(angel Posted January 16, 2005 Report Share Posted January 16, 2005 Highland Glide. I haven't been over there yet this year, I've been sticking mainly to the runs on Marmot that Bill posted pictures from in "First tracks" but when I do get over to the Douglas side of the mountain, Highland is the one I like best. I found last season that when carving the steeps there that I definitely had to start my turns early and be well forward on my board to get the nose to bite. It took several trips for me to put together a decent run, but finally felt like I had conquered it by the end of the day. It requires alot more work than the runs on the Marmot side and tires me out quicker, but it's worth it. Some of the other runs are good too, Halley's Comet, Red tail and Black Fox are good, but difficult on the top. I especially like the compression turn at the bottom of Black Fox :D it's on my toe side and I love the feeling of swooping through there and then cresting the hill! We need to get together and break out the video camera so we can both work on our problem areas (heelside for me) I'll try to stop by and see you this week, Paul Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dr. sandman Posted January 20, 2005 Author Report Share Posted January 20, 2005 Originally posted by jtslalom Dr. Sandman, I was a high school ski race coach and spent almost all my time on diamond slopes. I still do. I avoid greens and sometimes ride blue squares when riding slalom boards. I used to slide my turns on the diamonds to slow down because I would reach mach 5 after only a couple of turns. The problem was I wasn't rounding my turns and using transition to slow me down. Stay as low and forward as possible keeping your weight over the front foot. As you turn, make sure to really round them and come across the slope perpendicular to it. This will cause you to slow down by not actually going down the hill. You should end each turn by coming across the slope. To do this you MUST stay low and really get up on your edge. Ofcourse this will take good technique but once you feel it start to happen, you will understand what needs to be done. Good Luck Great suggestions, went up Mon & Tues. before reading this!! But I notice that the couple times that I did hook up, I was forward and low. Now if I can just make my mind stay in that place!! Last year I had a massive blow out - (on Halley's Comet, Paul) was heel side going quite fast, hit a solid ice ball that was affixed by Super Siskyou Cement, and did multiple tumbles/slams/pummels. Other than not being able to sit square for a couple of weeks (read "should've worn those hockey shorts!) no major injury, otherwise. Only problem is now I'm a bit gun shy. So it's the good 'ol mind over matter!! Also I see Jack posted the Carving Practice Drills - I'll read them 'til my eyes bleed! JoeCarve, Jim C and Neil G: I will play w/ angles a bit to see if I can refine my stance. otherwise drills, drills, drills,... and lots of vertical feet!! I'm trying to get my daughter to slow down enough and take some pics so I can post them for critiquing (sp?). Regards!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dr. sandman Posted January 20, 2005 Author Report Share Posted January 20, 2005 Originally posted by ar(angel Highland Glide. I haven't been over there yet this year, I've been sticking mainly to the runs on Marmot that Bill posted pictures from in "First tracks" but when I do get over to the Douglas side of the mountain, Highland is the one I like best. I found last season that when carving the steeps there that I definitely had to start my turns early and be well forward on my board to get the nose to bite. It took several trips for me to put together a decent run, but finally felt like I had conquered it by the end of the day. It requires alot more work than the runs on the Marmot side and tires me out quicker, but it's worth it. Some of the other runs are good too, Halley's Comet, Red tail and Black Fox are good, but difficult on the top. I especially like the compression turn at the bottom of Black Fox :D it's on my toe side and I love the feeling of swooping through there and then cresting the hill! We need to get together and break out the video camera so we can both work on our problem areas (heelside for me) I'll try to stop by and see you this week, Paul Paul, thanks - these are the runs we are on 80% of the time. Starting the turns early is a big one, and feeds in to jtslalom's "get low". The light goes on... in skiing, especially racing, we always taught and were taught to "start the turn early, roll to the new edge as you're crossing the fall line". DUH!!! Oh well, now that I've got by brain listening I hope to put all this great info to good work. Bill came by the race arena yesterday and said hi and showed off his brand new Coiler!! Lucky!!! Man what a bad a.s board!! Too bad he rides goofy!! I'll be up again Fri PM (practice) and all day Mon (race). Drop me an email or call me at the Pine St. Safeway. p.s. My daughter (sophmore) took 1st place in womens Super Slalom with a combined 6.4 second lead!!! My baby girl cooks!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chubz Posted January 20, 2005 Report Share Posted January 20, 2005 Sandman I am new to Hardboots this season and have found I have experienced what everyone else has. I ride in PA so the trail width and conditions arent the best all of the time. Usually the Diamonds are scraped off within an hour by folks that simply shouldnt be on the slope. I did however have the best morning yet on Monday in that I was committing to full turns on the steeps and running out nice big fast turns towards the less steep slopes. It has just been a matter of gaining the confidence in the edgees when you angulate them. In the right conditions, it'll hold and I dont mind the speed. The friends I ride with have always considered me a speed freak but hardboots has brought me to the true science of carving. After that first hour, the holiday crowds began to form and the boilerplate appeared and carves on teh steeps disappeared as well. I imagine I wont be carving on ice until I invest in a MADD. Thanks for posting thread, some of the replies reassured me that what I am going through is normal. Greg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ar(angel Posted January 20, 2005 Report Share Posted January 20, 2005 That's impressive, I hope my son continues to hard boot so that by the time he hits high school I can bask in the glow too :D I'm going up Sunday if the weather allows and might even try to get up there Friday afternoon, work permitting. I had some bad falls on Halleys Comet too, it's a great run but can beat you up if given the chance. Bill had a bad spill on Highland Glide last season too so it's definitely not tame by any means. I'm going to try to get over to the Douglas side on one of my "me" days when I don't have everybody in tow (had all three kids with me last Wednesday and my oldest on Saturday) and see if I can apply all the great advice from this thread. I'll come by the store before Friday and say hello, Paul p.s. I'm curious to find out what Bill did with his Swoard......:D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trikerdad Posted January 20, 2005 Report Share Posted January 20, 2005 All my previous carving/race boards were purchased used after having been tuned by a reputable shop. The Swoard was my first brand new board. I had never dealt with base or side angles thinking that as long as the edges were sharp it was good to go. I just waxed the Swoard and took it to the mountain. It would work great in some snow conditions and feel like I was dragging an anchor in others. Sometimes it would change within an hour or two. I just gave up on it and sold it to Rob Starr who rides in the Tahoe area. Now I know that all it needed was a little base bevel and I would still be riding it. Duh! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ar(angel Posted January 21, 2005 Report Share Posted January 21, 2005 what length and stiffness was the Swoard you had? I really liked that one and had been thinking about it ever since last season. BTW how's that 185 Prior you've been riding? See you soon, Paul Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trikerdad Posted January 21, 2005 Report Share Posted January 21, 2005 The Swoard was a 175 hard. I haven't had the Prior out lately what with getting the Axis dialed in and the new Coiler. It's very stiff (something like 24 on the BOBSI) and best in soft snow. It worked great in groomed powder but a little long in hardpack. I'm thinking it might work pretty good in the slush that's up there now. I'm leaving today for a week of scuba diving in Cozumel and hope some cold weather moves in while I'm gone. I'll be leaving for SES two weeks after I get back from Mexico. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
r_starr Posted January 12, 2015 Report Share Posted January 12, 2015 Hi Triderdad I'm still riding that Swoard! I've never had any work done to the edges or base. After several hunderd days it did delam but Bruce @ Coiler put it back together and it's going strong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freerider81 Posted January 12, 2015 Report Share Posted January 12, 2015 You should have waited 3 more days to post in this thread. That would have made it the 10th anniversary from when it was started. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
queequeg Posted January 13, 2015 Report Share Posted January 13, 2015 (edited) I don't think I've seen it mentioned here so I will add my two cents: carving the steeps requires you to initiate your turns with the downhill edge. The way you finish your turns is indeed important but being able to control the finish of your turn is predicated upon early turn initiation—and that is ultimately accomplished by using the downhill edge. Specifically I am talking about starting your turn while your board is traversing across the fall line by pushing the board uphill (and by that token, pushing your body downhill). This can be very scary at first but once you understand how it works, it will be second nature. When you push the board uphill it will start carving before it is headed downhill, and will come around to catch you as it dives into the pitch of the slope (and around your falling body). As the board comes around, your body's downhill momentum catches up with the stalled downhill momentum of the board (which is once again moving across the fall line) and allows you to initiate your next turn again with the downhill edge. At the top of the turn you are almost totally weightless, and at the bottom of the turn you have your max g-force (which won't necessarily be all that overwhelming, if you are keeping your speed in check with tight turns). It's a little counterintuitive because we are always taught that the downhill edge is like the third rail of snowboarding: touch it and you will slam - but this is not true when you are carving. I feel like this is one of carvings coolest magic tricks. It is true that you want to get across the slope and finish your turns a bit later (carving uphill) to bleed speed but initiating your turns very early is what facilitates that. If you start your turns late, there is no way you will be able to do that. In my experience: a turnier board works better in the steeps. Once you know how, a bigger board can be a lot of fun on the steeps but much easier to learn on a short, turny board that will come around quick. (whoah ... just realized this thread was from 2005!) Edited January 13, 2015 by queequeg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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