xy9ine Posted February 8, 2013 Report Share Posted February 8, 2013 We could probably market to these guys... corner carving on a sportbike is somewhat analogous to snowboard carving, for sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OhD Posted February 8, 2013 Report Share Posted February 8, 2013 You never see all their turns - only those they make at the stage of their learning curve at which you happen to be watching. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueB Posted February 9, 2013 Report Share Posted February 9, 2013 If you can entertain yourself on a bunny hill, you are aren't trying hard enough, let alone getting g's in a turn. Getting G's from a turn on a bunny hill takes more work then on steeper pitch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erik J Posted February 9, 2013 Report Share Posted February 9, 2013 I thought I ended this thread when I suggested boobs on page 3. I now weep for mankind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Prokopiw Posted February 10, 2013 Report Share Posted February 10, 2013 I thought I ended this thread when I suggested boobs on page 3. I now weep for mankind. The times being what they are;there would need to be boobs-and bulges ;-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sultan Guy Posted February 14, 2013 Report Share Posted February 14, 2013 Interesting take from Jake Burton. He even comments about step in bindings. http://www.outsideonline.com/outdoor-gear/snow-sports/snowboards/Whats-Next-for-Snowboarding-A-Conversation-With-Jake-Burton.html?page=all Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pmorita Posted February 26, 2013 Report Share Posted February 26, 2013 As a old school windsurfer, I see many parallels between snowboarding and windsurfing. In addition to what Sean said, which is dead on, we are doing a lousy job of growing the base of riders that are introduced to the sport each year. Equipment and design considerations are one thing, but the ability to bring new people to a sport that has a high start up cost, $85/day lift passes and a $20 lunch presents large barriers to entry. The windsurfing industry went big on mail order and most of the local shops and schools that generated excitement and kept a new crop of partipants coming in on entry level equipment shut down as they could not compete. We need manufacturers, resorts and local communities to work together to make sure that we are not cornered into an X-Games elitist sport that does not welcome families and middle aged, unhealty adventurists like myself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xy9ine Posted February 26, 2013 Report Share Posted February 26, 2013 attracting & nurturing new riders on hardboot gear is tough. perhaps the focus should be on softboot carving as a gateway to dedicated alpine hardware. i used rental softboot gear for a day last season (albeit a 'high performance' cambered deck in the longest length they had), and with appropriately set up bindings was impressed with how capable a carver it was (on relatively forgiving snow conditions). focus on technique and setup rather than hardware, and a few of those who like what they see might decide to progress to hardboots. on that note, i was thinking about the feasibility of a modded flow binding using extended front & backs w/ more wrap around to provide more lateral stability at high binding angles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wvrocks Posted February 26, 2013 Report Share Posted February 26, 2013 I don't know what the answer is as far as attracting new blood to hardboots but it sure does my heart good when I see these two out ripping it up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michael.a Posted February 26, 2013 Report Share Posted February 26, 2013 We need manufacturers, resorts and local communities to work together to make sure that we are not cornered into an X-Games elitist sport that does not welcome families and middle aged, unhealty adventurists like myself. Why not? What's this obsession with having everything "open" and "welcome" and "family-friendly"? Why can't a technical sport (imho this is a technical sport) remain what it is, i.e. difficult to learn, physically demanding, very expensive, and... well... entirely technical? Why must a sport accommodate the needs of the lowest common denominator? Definitely not for its own survival, one of the key facets of any niche hobby or sport is that it is, de facto, niche; it will always attract those who are looking for something different, something a bit out there, something not du jour; surprisingly, it turns out that riding in hardboots is also really really fun ;) So forget entry-level equipment, Disney-themed topsheets and a color-by-numbers guide on "how to ride". Let this sport live on with those who are truly interested in finding out what it's all about, taking a step into the deep unknown of what equipment to get, where to get it, how to set it up, and last but not least, how the hell to ride it. And, most of all, willing to make mistakes and learn from them. Committed individuals willing to invest serious time and money and get around the rather steep learning curve all with with the same goal of wanting to learn how to ride, and not just because it became the fad of 2016. The last thing this sport needs is a ton of two-bit flakes who'll probably bail the moment a new PlayStation comes out or have a shiny balloon fly by... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xy9ine Posted February 26, 2013 Report Share Posted February 26, 2013 ^solid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Prokopiw Posted February 26, 2013 Report Share Posted February 26, 2013 (edited) Although I agree with some of what benttech writes,I don't agree with forgetting entry level equipment or that it can't be family friendly.On the contrary,it seems much of what is being sold to the main middle-aged-guy demographic are bindings that are easy to step into,boards that are easy to ride with minimal discomfort and a cushy ride,and comfy boots.When it comes to boots,it's just like in skiing;there are models that are more friendly to the casual user and models that are geared toward high performance riders and racers.And just like with skiing,many riders are out there on boots that are way too stiff because they thought that's what they needed-or simply because they think that racing boots are going to help them become the rider they aspire to be.(But will ultimately never become since they were over matched by their own equipment.) As for family friendliness,I have said before that pandering to the youth market will get us nowhere,but youth that see it as being fun and even cool,will come to the niche on their own terms.That might mean looking the way they want to look instead of the way we want to look.It's obvious from the responses to the inquiry about new board graphics that we are a widely varied group when it comes to aesthetic sense.My own 9 year old has been bugging me to try hardboots again,mostly because he thinks what I do and the crowd reactions I get while while doing it, are cool. Even though I am a dyed in the wool hardbooter, I also think that welcoming/promoting softboot carving is a good thing.To that end I have a 16 year old client who has been taking hardboot lessons from me for several weeks on the hardboots that his grandpa,who I taught,passed on to him after having open heart surgery.While it's obvious Will wants to carve,he has been riding his crappy old softboots and low end Flows before and after each hardboot session.So,I have talked his dad and grandpa into getting him Malamutes and upper end Flows to carve in(He's a big,powerful kid).While this may seem contradictory to what I have previously said about pandering to youth,I don't see it that way.I am merely facilitating Will's longevity in carving,by helping make it about him instead of about appeasing his grandpa and dad(much like a kid does by taking piano lessons).He is now going to be less likely to give it up as he will be in equipment he prefers to be seen in,but will perform much better than his old setup.Best of both worlds. There are no actual rules to this sport,but the best way to keep a tiny following is to act like there are. Edited February 26, 2013 by Steve Prokopiw Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowmatic Posted February 27, 2013 Report Share Posted February 27, 2013 Is it over now? I mean snowboarding. Quiksilver And DC Cut Athlete Teams, Staff, & Brands see e.g comment from: TownMade: (February 26th, 2013 at 5:39 pm) The action sports industry is dead. It's not a long term career path for anybody. Get out while you can. The industry is going to probably shrink to half what it was. Snow Sports? Holy ****, it's over. Skiing is cool and no other snowsports brands besides Burton are organized enough to do anything. Surf? Done. Hardgoods? Remember the windsurfing industry? Doing the activities are fun and cool. Making a living off of them? Not so much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xy9ine Posted February 27, 2013 Report Share Posted February 27, 2013 now that's a fatalistic perspective. the core will always remain despite major corporations hemorrhaging due to the fickle mass market dabblers. really has no bearing on what we do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philw Posted February 27, 2013 Report Share Posted February 27, 2013 I'm with Bent on this, although I'm more extreme in my views. The last thing I want to do is anything "family friendly". When I started kids didn't ride because it was hard and extreme. Mostly, they still don't ride. They do the aerial ballet in the [theme] parks and all that stuff. I've seen the odd 10-year old kid with race training who can ski, but I've never come across a decent deep powder snowboarding child. I'm sure they exist, I've just not seen any yet. That's great, we're all happy. I want to do hard things, things which take thousands of hours to master, things that don't come easy. Seriously, that's a significant factor in why I do things. It's not particularly that I want people to know "how hard it was to get this good", it's that I get satisfaction from a challenge overcome. Accessible == no challenge == let the fatties do it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michael.a Posted February 27, 2013 Report Share Posted February 27, 2013 Making a living off of them? Not so much. I said my spiel and have a lot of thinking to do after what steve and phil posted, but I think this exact quote is the crux of the matter (even though it came from some guy and not from someone at Quicksilver), namely, the people who are actually moaning about snowboarding and other technical sports dying are huge corporations and the associated "masses" who live in a bubble that measures productivity and profit ratios in thousands of a percent (and good for them, efficiency and all, i.e. squeezing pennies). Basically the message of what that guy said is this: the era of being clueless and cashing in 100000% on niche industries is over. Making a living? Meaning driving Bentleys and buying mansions and making big bucks doing nothing or producing Chinese-made turds that have been polished by marketing armies with the YO YO DIS IZ TITE BRO gloss coat? Yea, that's over. And good riddance. Everybody saw snowboarding as a really easy way to make a buck, nobody bothered with things like long-term forecasts, planning strategies taking into account an older demographic, or the disappearance of the largest cash-cow segment: young kids always getting what they want from their rich parents. Now it's the end of the bell curve. Those who were in it from the beginning or came in later on offering quality products and services and didn't overextend themselves due to sheer greed will survive and continue to grow stronger. And that's the way things should have always been. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulY Posted February 28, 2013 Report Share Posted February 28, 2013 As Sean pointed out back on the first page, the manufacturers seem to think it's all about the kids in the park. I know an awful lot of adults that ride that will never get to to the point of being carvers or park monkeys, but just want to slide down the hill, just like most skiers. Most anyone in their 30's and beyond does not want to sit down to strap in, why doesn't the industry develop step in bindings that work? I know several that still use their Clickers and Switch systems that are falling apart but they refuse to go back to straps. I agree with PhilW about boarding being hard to master, but why not make the equipment a little more user friendly so more people can at least try it and make those first steps? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowmatic Posted February 28, 2013 Report Share Posted February 28, 2013 Clickers? Step in bindings? Watch out to "Kwickers". K2 offers new step-in boots since Years for season 2013/14. They are build for splitboarding. We will see how many of these boots will be used next seasons for splitboarding or even more for general snowboarding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Futahaguro Posted February 28, 2013 Report Share Posted February 28, 2013 The Clickers are back! Look at the toe and heel bails, if you want to call them bails. Those are straight up Clickers baby! Even the twist-to-lock feature is the same. Personally, I loved the Clickers for my riding. I was using them up until 3 years ago:) That is exactly why I bought TD-2 SI when I tried hardbooting, and I loved going back to step-ins. If you know what you are doing you can strap in pretty quick but I must agree, I love being able to click in and go. I never had a problem with snow-jams with my Clickers either. I would just scrape my boot on the twist-lock and click in. I also liked the super low profile and light weight of the bindings. Hmm. Makes me think I should try out a flexy hardboot setup and punt my straps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
www.oldsnowboards.com Posted February 28, 2013 Report Share Posted February 28, 2013 There were days when I didn't even see another snowboarder on the hill in the eighties. It didn't change my desire or plans. If they all disappeared tomorrow it would change little in my world. Just more damn questions on the chairlift I suppose . Carry on! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
www.oldsnowboards.com Posted February 28, 2013 Report Share Posted February 28, 2013 (edited) Is it over now? I mean snowboarding.Quiksilver And DC Cut Athlete Teams, Staff, & Brands see e.g comment from: TownMade: (February 26th, 2013 at 5:39 pm) The action sports industry is dead. It's not a long term career path for anybody. Get out while you can. The industry is going to probably shrink to half what it was. Snow Sports? Holy ****, it's over. Skiing is cool and no other snowsports brands besides Burton are organized enough to do anything. Surf? Done. Hardgoods? Remember the windsurfing industry? Doing the activities are fun and cool. Making a living off of them? Not so much. Sorry , this is just "Chicken Little" and "The Sky is Falling, the sky is falling" type bs. I certainly wouldn't be investing your 401 in action sports type business's but frankly it is just soap box fodder to me PS. It is not that I don't feel for anyone loosing their job. It is a tough time for allot of folks and I don't want to minimize my concern for folks that are struggling. On the other hand, stay diversified, know that what is hot , will soon be not. The Timber industry , dot com, home prices, should have taught us nothing is "for certain for long". Edited February 28, 2013 by www.oldsnowboards.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichNH Posted February 28, 2013 Report Share Posted February 28, 2013 There were days when I didn't even see another snowboarder on the hill in the eighties. It didn't change my desire or plans. If they all disappeared tomorrow it would change little in my world. Just more damn questions on the chairlift I suppose . Carry on! Yup. Same think happened with skateboarding. It was more appealing before all this x-games stuff when a small group did it. Thats what got me into hardboots in the first place. We used to crash the Burton party every year and nobody cared...think that can happen any more? Appreciate this cause if everyone did it...well it wouldn't be the same... Just sayin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
www.oldsnowboards.com Posted February 28, 2013 Report Share Posted February 28, 2013 I don't know what the answer is as far as attracting new blood to hardboots but it sure does my heart good when I see these two out ripping it up. Thanks for sharing this photo. That is "Good Stuff" right there!! Is it you? Your son? VERY < VERY COOL!! Almost makes me want to find a young gal and generate a mini me. NO not really. That ship has sailed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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