New HB - community advice needed

[gTa]

Hi,

Summer's gone - almost. I'm getting the vibes for coming winter. One thing, though: my hardboots need replacement. Since I live in Belgium and the nearest shop stocking alpine gear is some 1.000 km away, going there and trying them on sadly is not an option. I'm stuck with buying them online. That's a dreadful way of buying boots but I see no other way. I've done it in the past: carefully reading heaps of information, and then buying fingers crossed.

Therefore: your advice is needed and appreciated enormously. I'll try to give you guys as much info as I can.

About me

I'm 36 years old, weigh 87 kg / 190 lbs and measure 188 cm / 6' 2". I ride alpine boards since 1992 and I'm very comfortable with them in most conditions. I'm in fair/good physical condition (5 km run in 23min, 10 km run in 50min ... I'd give myself a 6 or 7?), and my alpine riding/carving technique is ok (again, a 6 or 7). I'm mainly into carving fluently on wider even slopes, adore medium-high speeds but avoid high speeds. I'm not the GS racer, nor am I the avid slalom thrasher. I'm not afraid of less than perfect snow conditions, icy slopes and such ... but tend to hold back in those conditions (some uncertainty about my technique + every year I'm getting older I'm becoming a bit more of a pussy :D). The last seasons I'm working on the extreme carving technique and slowly getting there.

I currently own a Swoard 175M, an F2 Speedster RS Equipe 183 and a Dupraz D1 6' +. The Dupraz and F2 are my most used boards: the Speedster is used as slope shredding board (long turns at higher speeds on blue/red boulevards) and for accompanying fast skiers. I ride the Dupraz D1 with Burton Driver X, it carves rather decently and is my all mountain board. The Swoard is only used when the groom is hard and perfect, before noon.

My left foot measures 27,2 cm and my right foot 27,6 cm. I have VERY narrow feet, however. And narrow legs/calves too. My foot arch is medium/high. I always have to choose narrow shoes, e.g. with specialist running shoes: the narrow and 'uncomfortable' models that most people complain about, fit me perfectly. The same with my ski boots: only narrow racing boots fit me well, I bought the narrow Salomon X3-10 CS (online) last year and it feels very comfortable.

About my alpine hardboots

I've bought my Blax Ingemar boots some 8 years ago, they were already second hand. Before that I had Burton Earths. The Ingemars are size mondo 27 and feel a notch too short (buckled up they're ok but after a day of riding my toes hurt when unbuckled and pushing against the front of the liners). The shells are in poor state, but the liners are completely worn out. Still: I want something completely new (not only new liners).

I tested a pair of Deeluxe 225's in size mondo 27,5 last winter (not riding, just size fitting) and they fitted well in length, but were much too wide (footbox, shaft), no heel hold. My ski boots are Salomon racing boots size mondo 27,0. They're OK in length (better than my Blax), perfect in width.

There you have it. Can you guys do something with that?

I'm looking into the stiffer boot range and need a narrow boot. If possible with a decent stock liner (too much to wish for?). I have my eye on the 700T and the RC10, but I'm in to any suggestion with experienced advice.

Thanks. A lot!!

Gilles

[piusthedrcarve]

With your given info., I'm recommending Deeluxe 700 boots with thicker moldable liners (intuition, Palau, Scarpa, etc..) with ACSS or BTS. Here is a sample.

Well... that adds up to $8-900 easily.

or

You may be able to find used Raichle boots around $100 and add all those parts (moldable liners & springs).

I realized that having right boots is most important part of alpine snowboarding in hard ways. Hope you find your dream boots at once.

[tex1230]

if the 225's were too wide, you will not like the RC10

[gTa]

With your given info., I'm recommending Deeluxe 700 boots with thicker moldable liners (intuition, Palau, Scarpa, etc..) with ACSS or BTS. Here is a sample.

Well... that adds up to $8-900 easily.

or

You may be able to find used Raichle boots around $100 and add all those parts (moldable liners & springs).

I realized that having right boots is most important part of alpine snowboarding in hard ways. Hope you find your dream boots at once.

Thanks a lot for the useful info!

You recommend a good liner.

~ The stock thermo-liner that comes with the Deeluxe Track 700 is no good, then? Would you recommend buying a 'better' liner instantly, or trying out the stock liner first? The cost of the liners wouldn't be the problem, but I'd like to be sure that they're a significant improvement over the stock thermo liners.

~ Which of the Intuition line is best for alpine carving?

~ The Scarpa liners seem similar to the Intuitions. Scarpa even places the Intuition logo on their models. Are they 'the same'? Which Scarpa liner is best for alpine carving: Precision or Speed Pro?

~ I found the Palau website and browsed through their products. Prices seem VERY reasonable. Are they good? Which model is to be recommended for alpine (extreme) carving?

~ In general: is a liner with wraparound tongue OK for alpine carving?

I am unaware of the benefits of the boot spring hopups (ACSS, BTS). Is there a general explanation topic on BOL where I can read about that? (I've found the piece of text on the Carver's Almanac, but that's quite basic)

Thanks a LOT for your answer!

if the 225's were too wide, you will not like the RC10

Thanks too for your answer! Am I wrong to deduct from your answer that the UPZ RC10 is a wider boot? If so, more around the foot or more around the leg?

Is there a general comparison available online of boot widths?

Edited August 3, 2012 by gTa

[gTa]

Is there anything known about the MY13 Deeluxe Free 69 (new model) yet? Stiffness?

Edit: found it. It's a yellow version of the 325T, with the DEL 141 thermo liner, and optional Intec adapter. Same stiffness as Track 325 (rated 7 by Deeluxe, compared to 9 for the 700 and 6 for the 225).

Edited August 3, 2012 by gTa

[Corey]

I used Deeluxe 700T for a few years. I had heel lift issues while the ankle buckle was as tight as it would go (boot deformed heavily), plus the shells were too narrow in the forefoot. Basically too wide in the calf and ankle area while too narrow in the heel area for my odd feet.

The UPZ RC-10 fixed all of those issues; it's narrower in the calf and ankle areas, has a deep heel pocket, and is slightly wider in the forefoot. It can be a challenge to get my foot in and out of the boots if they're cold. Once at room temperature I can get them on easier, but no where near as easy as the Deeluxes. I didn't like the stock liners in the UPZ boots though, my toes got very cold and they had odd pressure points. A pair of Intuition Alpine liners fixed that for me.

[pokkis]

Have you been in touch with Belgium carver folks, they shoul be able also help you.

You should be able reach them via extremecarving.com forum

Palau, try Palau overlap soft, it has plenty of stuff to fill you boot in correct places, i love them.

I would recommend not to take stiiffest boot, like 700, but something in mid range, more comfy and easier to get working.

Edited August 3, 2012 by pokkis

[gTa]

Thanks for the answers!

Corey, you seem to say that the RC10 is a narrow boot, which contrasts to the post of tex1230 a little higher. Or maybe not: he might be talking solely about the forefoot width...?

Pokkis, I'm registered at the said forum... but I would be VERY surprised if there were other Belgian alpine boarders? And why a softer boot? I have a stiff boot now (Blax Ingemar) and LOVE that. I can imagine that I will squat a 325 with my weight and riding style..., no?

[tex1230]

corey is correct - UPZ has a wider forefoot than deeluxe and that is what I meant to say.

[gTa]

Aha, thanks tex!

I had more problems finding ski boots narrow enough at the ankle and calf, than at the forefoot. In my Salomons I'm comfortable now (forefoot) and well planted (calf, ankle), and I experience excellent heel hold. That particular model is made extra narrow and has a moldable outer shell at the forefoot side area; for me it's perfect as it is out of the factory. Some people say that Deeluxe have a wider ankle/calf area, and that is definitely not what I need.

I saw on the UPZ website that the liner has velcro-attached pieces designed to make the area just in front of the ankle narrower. Doesn't that help?

[tex1230]

IMHO, the UPZ liners suck. Ditch them and get thermoflex.

(edit: the last UPZ I bought were in 2009. Liners may have changed, but the pics on the website look the same as the ones I had)

[piusthedrcarve]

Aha, thanks tex!

I had more problems finding ski boots narrow enough at the ankle and calf, than at the forefoot. In my Salomons I'm comfortable now (forefoot) and well planted (calf, ankle), and I experience excellent heel hold. That particular model is made extra narrow and has a moldable outer shell at the forefoot side area; for me it's perfect as it is out of the factory. Some people say that Deeluxe have a wider ankle/calf area, and that is definitely not what I need.

I saw on the UPZ website that the liner has velcro-attached pieces designed to make the area just in front of the ankle narrower. Doesn't that help?

One of BOL members here posted his findings on UPZ width on this forum. I can't locate it but saved the info. on my computer for future use. If you can measure yours, it will be great comparison how UPZ would fit.

UPZ:102mm towards the front, 98mm in the middle and 95mm in the heel pocket

[gTa]

Thanks Pius!

No idea how to measure shell width, but I know that my ski boots (Salomon X3-10CS) have width 95. Whether that's overall width, or how to compare with the measirements the BOL member did: I do not know. They're some of the narrowest boots available. The "custom shell" thingie (black plastic part on the side of the forefoot area) makes it possible to mold the shell, increasing the forefoot width up to 6mm (thus creating a 101mm shoe). I let mine stock and they fit perfectly.

[0815-fahrer]

Hi gTa,

If you want, I have some DeeLuxe in size 27 Track700 you could try and even buy. They are for sale.

They are 4 years old, but only used one season, since I went to UPZ rc10.

Location of the shoes is near Düsseldorf, Germany.

[gTa]

Thanks 0815!

My mind is set on a new pair of symmetrical boots, the 325 or new Free69. Since the 700 is asymmetrical, even trying them for sizing wouldn't be ideal. I've contacted the Deeluxe importer and two shops in the area. We've got the arrangement that a pair of mondo 27 will be available for fitting as soon as they're available. So I'll wait a little longer.

Düsseldorf isn't far away (some 2,5 hours drive) though. Do you have a thread of the boots online, with pictures and asking price?

[Transistor Rhythm]

Head Stratos 27.5 is plenty of stiff and the liner is not shortened in the boot. Regardless of brand try to get a .5 sized boot in SB HB's as they liners and shell are the same size. If you had a problem with your toes in the liner of the Ingemars, and not the plastic it should work. The liner of the Stratos is fantastic and didn't even need to be heated for me to fit. They are really snug when I put them on, but after a day riding I forget to unbuckle them.

The only thing that kind of puzzles me that you say you have narrow feet, because Heads are regarded as the most wide boots, together with UPZ's. So Ingemars should have been giving problems as well.

Why no asymmetricals? I think the Deeluxe 700 is a really good boot apart from the horrible fit (for me at least). Topsurf sells them, maybe close to you too:

http://www.topsurfvinkeveen.nl/component/option,com_virtuemart/page,shop.browse/category_id,156/Itemid,37/

[Jack M]

Call Michelle at Bomber. 970-513-7733. She has a lot of experience with getting people into the right boot over the phone/email. I think Head boots are narrower than Deeluxe, but I'm not sure.

http://bomberonline.3dcartstores.com/Boots-and-Liners_c_22.html

Edited August 14, 2012 by Jack Michaud

[gTa]

Thanks for your insights!

Jack, calling to the States isn't particularly an option at this time (I live in Belgium). Although I'm confident that Michelle can give expert advice, I'll try to find out as much as possible through forums and in "local" shops (although the closest specialised shop is 1.000 km away).

Moreover, the more advice I get, the more it seems that I will not get anything good without properly trying and fitting. So I'm looking to do that, without having to drive 1.400 miles that is. :-)

Transistor, I have to tighten my Ingemars as hell, now with the wearing of the liners I do not get the tight fit that I need. Maybe because the boots are a tad too short, it didn't ever stand out that they were too wide? I don't know. Fact is that I have very narrow feet and calves. whether the Ingemar is a narrow or wider boot: no idea. As long as my next boot fits me properly. Thanks for your advice!

[Transistor Rhythm]

382km to Vinkeveen if you live in Aubange, which is the furthest away I could find from Holland. Just saying ;)

You don't have Skype @ Bomber HQ?

[0815-fahrer]

Thanks 0815!

Düsseldorf isn't far away (some 2,5 hours drive) though. Do you have a thread of the boots online, with pictures and asking price?

You can find them here, but the Ad is in German.

http://www.frozen-backside.de/index.php?page=Thread&threadID=4927

From where in Belgium are you? There is an indoor hall directly near Düsseldorf, you could even test it there:D

Edited August 14, 2012 by 0815-fahrer

[Beckmann AG]

…I have VERY narrow feet, however. And narrow legs/calves too. My foot arch is medium/high. I always have to choose narrow shoes, e.g. with specialist running shoes: the narrow and 'uncomfortable' models that most people complain about, fit me perfectly. The same with my ski boots: only narrow racing boots fit me well, I bought the narrow Salomon X3-10 CS (online) last year and it feels very comfortable.

…I tested a pair of Deeluxe 225's in size mondo 27,5 last winter (not riding, just size fitting) and they fitted well in length, but were much too wide (footbox, shaft), no heel hold. My ski boots are Salomon racing boots size mondo 27,0. They're OK in length (better than my Blax), perfect in width.

…And why a softer boot? I have a stiff boot now (Blax Ingemar) and LOVE that.

…I had more problems finding ski boots narrow enough at the ankle and calf, than at the forefoot. In my Salomons I'm comfortable now (forefoot) and well planted (calf, ankle), and I experience excellent heel hold. That particular model is made extra narrow and has a moldable outer shell at the forefoot side area; for me it's perfect as it is out of the factory. Some people say that Deeluxe have a wider ankle/calf area, and that is definitely not what I need.

…I know that my ski boots (Salomon X3-10CS) have width 95…

…They're some of the narrowest boots available. The "custom shell" thingie (black plastic part on the side of the forefoot area) makes it possible to mold the shell, increasing the forefoot width up to 6mm (thus creating a 101mm shoe). I let mine stock and they fit perfectly.

….I have to tighten my Ingemars as hell, now with the wearing of the liners I do not get the tight fit that I need.

All of which begs the question: Have you taken a run in your Salomons, and did that run induce vomiting?

According to your bio, you have been riding long enough to have some idea of what you do and do not want out of a boot. If the Salomon is close, simply buy a second pair and modify as needed.

[gTa]

382km to Vinkeveen if you live in Aubange, which is the furthest away I could find from Holland. Just saying ;)

There's a shop in Vinkeveen (NL) that stocks hardboots? Neat! What's the shop's name?

You can find them here, but the Ad is in German.

http://www.frozen-backside.de/index.php?page=Thread&threadID=4927

From where in Belgium are you? There is an indoor hall directly near Düsseldorf, you could even test it there:D

German is no problem. I didn't know the frozen-backside.de forum. Nice! I'll pass on the boots, though. Thx anyway ;)

All of which begs the question: Have you taken a run in your Salomons, and did that run induce vomiting?

According to your bio, you have been riding long enough to have some idea of what you do and do not want out of a boot. If the Salomon is close, simply buy a second pair and modify as needed.

Why should that have induced vomiting? (I'm not following). The runs I did in them (3 full days of sporty carving on Salomon BBR's), they felt perfect.

I haven't read much about converting ski boots to alpine snowboard boots, I thought it's not recommended because of flex?

[gTa]

Oh and: I've contacted the Belgian importer of Deelixe. He'll see what he can do to order 2 sizes of Free69 when available, so that I can try them on, without buying obligation. I'm curious if that'll work out...

[Transistor Rhythm]

There's a shop in Vinkeveen (NL) that stocks hardboots? Neat! What's the shop's name?

Just follow the link! :)

For me it's either TopSurf or Sölden when I need new boots that I need to try on first. I bought my Heads off BlueTomato since I knew they would fit.

Oh and try DutchBootFitter if you have problems, he's helped more hardbooters (including me).

[gTa]

Marvelous! Now that's some useful info. Hartelijk dank waarde noorderbuur!