Co-worker busted his carbon road bike JRA

[Dan]

My co-worker bought a Focus Izalco Pro about two years ago. He rides a lot, both road and MTB, and I'm sure he has plenty of miles on it. Today he told me that while starting from a stoplight, he cracked the right chainstay on a downstroke. No injuries, fortunately -- could have been very bad in other circumstances.

It sounds like Focus is going to warranty the frame, but this is scary stuff. Even scarier, given that Focus claims to build all their frames in Germany, and I've been looking at a cheap Taiwanese carbon bike, which (presumably) would not match Focus' build quality.

I already decided to take this summer off from serious road riding, so I'm postponing bike shopping anyway, but this makes me even less likely to upgrade my steel frame -- ti is out of reach for the time being, I'm now freaked out about carbon, and not a fan of aluminum.

Any other carbon horror stories out there?

[kieran]

yikes, makes me glad my variado is aluminium. i'm obsessive about checking the fork though, compression fatigue seems to be the thing on hollow carbon 'tube' components.

[trailertrash]

When I was working in a shop years ago a customer came in trying to warrenty a carbon frame. He said "it just broke..." Turns out while changing a rear flat and the bike laying on the ground he stepped on the rear dropout. Snap!

[dingbat]

Everything breaks.

Everything.

[www.oldsnowboards.com]

3,000 $ bike, glad to hear they are taking care of the cost of the frame. Serious injury avoided is huge!!!

Dan, does this mean you have money for a new carving board?? :)

[davekempmeister]

Everything breaks.

Everything.

some things more often than others. at 200lbs. +, i eschew carbon and always will ( i do have a carbon fork on one bike of mine - and inspect it regularly ). i recall a criterium in baltimore in the late 80's/early 90's during which a rider's carbon/aluminum vitus literally came apart mid turn with ugly consequences. admittedly, that is an obsolete basis for my rationale but some things stick with you.

low wage production facilities in asia are probably producing better product in this sector than the cutting edge technologies of just a few years ago made anywhere in the world. just the same, i'll take cold worked ti, aluminum or steel every time. also, the bike makers push the carbon because the raw material costs are so much lower and i don't see where it's passed on to the consumer, of course. many motives.

edit: i have ridden full carbon bikes in europe when borrowing a bike and loved them- especially if it's sized slightly to small for me. i don't pretend the ride isn't nice.

[Beckmann AG]

The scenario is less scary when you consider that most high end bikes push performance over durability in the design criteria. What was it Bontrager said, way back when? "Light, strong, cheap; pick two."

With a bulk builder, AKA Taiwan, the emphasis is on production and consistency of product, at a particular price point.

Sort of like coffee from a can, rather than from your local roaster.

The production bike will be heavier, and likely more durable. Whereas you may eventually get a cup of bean blood from your local that twists your tongue into a knot, and has you spitting like Josey Wales.

If memory serves, most top (race) bikes from maybe ten years ago carried a warrantee as short as one year. Usage beyond that was considered something of a bonus.

The early carbon/aluminum Specialized came apart at the lugs due to galvanic corrosion.

Early carbon steerer forks snapped at the crown until carbon rooting was better understood.

I broke the crown in half on one of the early AMP link forks, on a bridge drop of less than a foot. This was back when CNC'd aluminum was more prevalent than forging, and the sandwich was simply too light on the meat.

I didn't bother with a warrantee, or stop racing; but simply bought a heavier fork from a larger company that did more testing.

While material manipulation has certainly advanced over the years, carbon is still carbon, and glue is still glue, and things can certainly go wrong.

Particularly for smaller builders. Especially when they work close to the margins.

And German engineering is often severely overrated, so don't factor that into the criteria.

Besides, you know you want a Ti frame; so save your pennies, skip over the 'cheap' stuff, and ride as many other bikes as you can in the mean time.

If you don't buy what you really want, the surrogate will mock you with every pedal stroke.

Edited June 2, 2012 by Beckmann AG

[C5 Golfer]

get Wilier Cento 1 and dont worry about -- I love mine.. and it is almost wall art

[xy9ine]

my carbon dh bike is going into its 6th season w/ countless whistler bikepark & northshore laps under it's belt. done right, it's bomber stuff. of course, like anything else, it's only as good as the engineering & manufacturing skills utilized.

[floBoot]

Someone i know has a Felt carbon frame bike, recently paid approx £4k with discount...they,re insured i asked! Way in the past i have broken a Reynolds steel frame,after about 14 years of use...i now have an aluminium frame road bike that is still great after 13 years..i also have a mountain bike a couple years old with some carbon bits on it...i better watch out...!

[dingbat]

some things more often than others. at 200lbs. +, i eschew carbon and always will ( i do have a carbon fork on one bike of mine - and inspect it regularly ). i recall a criterium in baltimore in the late 80's/early 90's during which a rider's carbon/aluminum vitus literally came apart mid turn with ugly consequences. admittedly, that is an obsolete basis for my rationale but some things stick with you.

low wage production facilities in asia are probably producing better product in this sector than the cutting edge technologies of just a few years ago made anywhere in the world. just the same, i'll take cold worked ti, aluminum or steel every time. also, the bike makers push the carbon because the raw material costs are so much lower and i don't see where it's passed on to the consumer, of course. many motives.

edit: i have ridden full carbon bikes in europe when borrowing a bike and loved them- especially if it's sized slightly to small for me. i don't pretend the ride isn't nice.

The early carbon bikes were cutting edge. It's been 20 years since then. Early carbon came apart due to the fact that it was typically bonded to aluminum lugs with an adhesive that corroded the aluminum. Vitus, Specialized, Trek, Nuke Proof..... all had the exact same issue. Thing is, the carbon didn't fail, the aluminum did. It was a bonding issue, not the carbon material itself. Having had a frame from that era come apart (head tube separated from top and down tube mid turn) underneath me, I'm intimately familiar with the scenario you witnessed.

That said, my road bike has a steel frame and fork. More of a shelf life thing for me than a strength/durability concern. I don't ride near as often as I used to. Carbon, due to the thermoplastics and catalyzed resins it's usually set in, has a shelf life. When I pull my Reynolds blades brazed to the Henry James crown out of the closet, it will have the same feel it did when I put it in there.

ETA: I recall working on some Vitus' during that era. There was some other fundamental flaw with their design but I can't quite remember what it was.

Edited June 7, 2012 by dingbat

[eajracing]

I did a lot of research on cf composites in the early '00's and designed a hockey stick or two in the process. Cf works great when it is built as it designed. All it takes is one slight fold in the weave, an air pocket forms a stress riser and a stick explodes with a slap shot. Focus makes good bikes from what I gather from people i ride with. The margin of error with these however is so thin that these things happen. I recall a (very) old mountain bike action in which the cycled a steel and aluminum and a cf handlebar to failure in a testing rig - the cf lasted the longest, but when it went it exploded without the usual sings of failure develop as in it's metallic counterparts. the number of sticks we bought and looked at under sem with these types of issues outnumbered those that didn't. Mind you, a lot of progss has been made in this regard in the past decade.

At 220lbs+.... I've got an '88 Merckx with a few thousand km on it and a '78 Olmo, recently upgraded to 8sp dura ace with 10,000km+ over the past 15 years that still gets ridden every day over streetcar tracks, through the winter etc. rim welds have come apart (I blame it on the BGE, not 20 year old fir's), but the frame/fork are bulletproof.

[Dan]

I'm happy to announce that I finally anted up for a new road bike. After a few years of dithering, I went with a Cannondale Caad 10 Ultegra build. It is aluminum, but allegedly designed to be less absolutely rigid / more comfortable riding than old-school aluminum bikes. So far, it's light, stiff, and has super-efficient power transfer. It's a pretty night-and-day difference to my old steel road bike, and I think this will hold me for a good number of years. Very happy with the price / performance ratio on this bike too.