Liner dilemma

[Hilux]

Hey folks. I've done some research on here and online but haven't found a definitive answer before I drop some money on liners.

Long story short, I broke in my UPZ RC10 Flo liners for a couple months wearing them around the house so they'd mold to my feet before hitting the slopes. This was done in hopes that this would prevent any painful experiences. Was out my first day last week and have severe bruising on ankles (mostly right foot...back foot), a mad case of shinbang, and tenderness on the top of my foot where the tongue ridge hits. Left foot has same but to a lesser degree and it generally felt comfortable all day. I tried repositioning tongue every way and it never got better. Where do I go from here? I see my options as:

1. Use my HSP stock liners that are okay and free :D

2. Suck it up, tough it out another round to confirm these (Flo liners) do indeed injure me every time I want to go out...in other words, give it a chance.

3. Invest in thermos, Intuition, Deeluxe etc

I'm leaning towards the Intuition liners as I've only read good things about them and they fall within my price range <$200. A couple questions for those who've had experience with these, is it worth getting the Power Wrap version or will the Alpine be sufficient? I'm thinking Power Wrap because of it possibly eliminating shinbang by being stiffer, but I'm not too sure if this would be the case. Any insight is much appreciated on these liners or others. I'm open to suggestions. Thanks!

http://www.intuitionliners.com/

[snowboardfast]

I am running the intuition liner in a Deluxe lemans boot and a Deluxe susuka boot and they are working for me.The Deluxe liners were too thin and would pack out too much and cause shin bang.I am running the Alpine liner in the lemans boots and using the scarpa liner in the Susuka boots. I would think that a moldable liner would solve your ankle pain problem. Another rider on this forum tried the red deluxe liner in his Upz boots and the liner took up too much room in the shell and the fit was too tight. I like the Alpine liner better than the Scarpa liner as it is thicker and has not packed out as much. The other option would be to get some fitting done on the liner you already have to see if that would help? a good bootfitter could advise you on getting a new liner versus working with the ones you have? I have been using heat moldable liners for a long time and have not had much trouble at all with foot pain. The boots feel good in the shop after the liners have cooled and I don't have to break them in with a few days of riding. They do pack out a little bit. I hope you can get this resolved as sore feet and ankles are no fun.

[jp1]

If it ain't broke, don't fix it, if you have something that works, stay with it.

From experience, what works for others may or may not work for you and unfortunately you won't know until after the purchase is made.

After a couple years of research and reading others experiences here I decided to go with the Dalbello Gold Powerwraps (which everyone seemed to be ecstatic with) to replace my (what I felt were packed out) stock liners in a pair of Head Stratos.

I purchased and had them fitted & molded by a reputable fitter and thought I was 'good to go'. Wore them around the house (pre-season) for break in as you mentioned, and thought they 'didn't feel quite right', but would probably be OK.

The first day I rode in them my feet were never so miserable. The second day I made some shims out of moleskin that helped, but still not right. The third day I had to take a day off and see a local bootfitter where I was riding, whom after trying a few things ended up punching out the boots in problem area. They felt better, but still 'not right'.

Luckily I had brought along my stock (packed out Head liners) so I put them in the boots and rode the last 6 days of my visit with no problems.

I paid good money for a quality liner but they ended up being miserable 'for me'.

I plan to go back to place of purchase and have them re-molded (since boots are now punched out) and hopefully they will work out better.

Moral to the story, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it".

If I had it to do over again, I'd try to find a pair of stock Head liners that I know worked for me.

[Ernie00]

Hey, I had the similar question about changing my liner in my RC-10 a few months ago. I didn't like the comfort of mine and after a year + of giving it a chance. Plus I was freezing in these flo liners.

You ca read the thread here. http://www.bomberonline.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=34763&highlight=upz+liner

I bought with a lot of skepticism a set of size 29 Scarpa liner from gear xchange for 29$, so it was worth the risk. I'm a size 27 but after 2 other people here that did it, it works great. Without any heating the liner was very comfortable in the boot. Cooked it and it's very good. I put my sole in the liner and they work great with the UPZ boot.

Good luck

[Allee]

I had the exact same problem on mine after a season. The liners packed out a bit, and I started getting horrible shin bang on the back shin (it almost felt more like rub than bang, but the whole length of my shin bone), and the same pressure across the top of the ankle. And all in the back foot - the front one is fine.

I bought a set of Eliminators, but there isn't enough room for them to slide in over my ankle, so that didn't work.

What did work was an $8 pair of Cooper soccer shin pads. They're made for indoor, and they're just a foan insert inside a slip-on sock. But they take up just enough room to stop the shin bang in the back, the extra widlth takes the pressure off the ankle, and they solved the problem instantly. The only thing that I have now is a little bit of pain on my ankle bone on that foot, where the liner needs to pack a bit more to make room for the sock - but apart from that, these things are epic. Worth a shot, for what they cost.

[Hilux]

Hmmm, thanks for the suggestions/input so far.

Allee, interesting suggestion and an affordable one at that. Tonight I put them back on and actually noticed some tenderness on the back of my calf. Shins are done though still...wah, painful.

I proceeded to throw in my old HSP stock liners and it felt better and definitely softened the boot up as well.

Ernie, you managed to fit a 29 in a 27? I've been advised, and researched that a 27 or 26 in my 27 shell would be appropriate for any heat moldable/thermo liner. Hey, whatever works!

JP, your right in saying you never know what's going to work or not. I honestly just want to throw my cash at the Intuition and be done with it but I understand there's no guarantee. I've just heard many more positive things about those than negatives and if anyone could see the damage done to my feet, shins, you'd understand how desperate and frustrating this is after buying these boots new

To snowboardfast, I think a bootfitter is in order as you suggested. I might go regardless of which direction I take. Probably well worth the time and $.

Anyone try a BOOSTER strap with these? Wondering if that would help the shinbang. Thanks again everyone...so disappointing

[snowboardfast]

Before you buy intuition liners go to a bootfitter that sells them with your boots the way they are and see if they think that will help. Most shops that sell you a heatmoldable liner will mold it for free if you buy it there. You need special equipment to heat up the liner properly to mold it. Also if you get it done at a shop you can have the boots and or liner adjusted if needed before you leave if it is needed. The boot should feel comfortable right at the start with a moldable liner. Also if you get the work done at a shop you can go back to get more work done if needed after you ride the boots for a day and are still having problems.

[Ernie00]

Like I said I was very skeptical, but 2 other guys did it before me the used 30 liners in the 27 shell, if you read the thread I posted, this is where I go the information about the scarpa liners. So I said to myself for 29$ it was well worth the try. Really happy I did it. The liner fits perfect in the boot.

http://gearx.com/scarpa-plus-fit-ski-boot-liners.html They are in vermont, I was visiting burlington so no shipping. Looks like they still have some in stock.

[Beckmann AG]

Somewhere in the action of riding, your body is at odds with your boot shell geometry. A different liner may blunt the impact, but does not address the origin of your pain. Before buying anything, you may want to stand in the empty shells in the bindings, move around a bit, and see if there are any obvious points of contact you can rearrange.

The calf pain/shin pain combination is often an indication of a stance that is too wide, an odd cant/lift situation, and/or a few other scenarios.

A section of neoprene mouse pad makes a good temporary buffer.

[Hilux]

Thanks again everyone.

Beckman, great advice thanks. I changed many things this year all at once ie board and and boots and so the adjustment has been difficult. In the past I've changed one thing at a time so I was able to narrow down the variables impeding my progress or likewise, improve performance.

I've kept my bindings the same and with an inseam of 33", I'm at a 19.25" stance which seems to be comfortable. Bindings have 3* heel/toe lift with 0.5* outward cant on back foot...this has worked for me but perhaps I'll reassess.

[Chris Houghton]

Yes, booster straps will help with shin bang, but you have so many issues there I really think you need to get a professional to help you out. You could spend most of the season trying to fix this on your own. If you let us know where you're located, we could probably recommend a boot fitter for you.

[Pokolikrat]

Liners.

I would definitively not recommend Power Wrap liner. I put it into my Heads and it made them un ridable. It was so stiff. I remove plastic wrap and remold liner but it was still just pain. I threw it in garbage finally. I am using old pink Raichle liner and this summer I bought Full Tilt liner from EVO for my AT boots. And I like it and price was only $99. Also have black thermo liner from Bomber. It is stiffer than Raichle. Intuition Power wrap was stiffest, harder and coldest liner from all.

Yes I am using Booster strap on all my boots, but medium stiffnes not race one.

[GV27]

Another +1 for a boot fitter. A good one can make just about any boot fit right, unless it's completely the wrong size or something. Ultimately you'll probably want moldable liners but a fitter can make recommendations around that. My fitter is pretty cheap too (even though he's the best!).

Boot fitting is usually an iterative process, so plan to go at least a couple of times. I see a lot of "I went to a fitter and they're still not quite right, what can I try next?" comments both here and on Ski discussion forums. What should you do? Go back until it's right. If your fitter isn't giving you confidence that they'll get it right eventually, find someone else. A lot of people get their boots tuned up every few months. For the place I go to they charge you every time - they let you know up front that it is an iterative process and might not be a one-time thing - but they don't charge much. Last time I was in it was $25 for new foot beds, a heel lift in the right boot, a little padding over a screw on the left and a re-mould of the liners. I don't know how this compares to anyone else. I would guess at resorts it'd be a little more expensive......then again, my guy is the best in the world even if he does work down in town.

In fact, I'm going to see Larry in Boulder today - my 225s are a bit constricted after we added a good foot bed last time I was in and while they fixed my right heel-lift issue, they didn't solve my left foot sliding forward issue. I think I need them punched out slightly and maybe some more tongue padding for my left? I dunno - they'll know at Larry's.

Chris

[jp1]

GV27, Thumbs up also on 'Larry the Bootfitter', Boulder, Co .

[Jack M]

Thanks again everyone.

Beckman, great advice thanks. I changed many things this year all at once ie board and and boots and so the adjustment has been difficult. In the past I've changed one thing at a time so I was able to narrow down the variables impeding my progress or likewise, improve performance.

I've kept my bindings the same and with an inseam of 33", I'm at a 19.25" stance which seems to be comfortable. Bindings have 3* heel/toe lift with 0.5* outward cant on back foot...this has worked for me but perhaps I'll reassess.

That doesn't seem too wide, I have a 31" inseam and I ride a 20" stance with 3 degree toe/heel lift and outward cant on the back foot. I'd start looking at the boots, per Beckman's recommendation. If you do go for new liners, these are good too:

http://www.bomberonline.com/store/accessories/hpd_liner.cfm

I like the 131 or 141.

[Beckmann AG]

If you have the inclination (no pun intended), and your old boots, maybe do a side by side on-snow comparison? Try a new boot on the front, old on back etc. Boot geometry varies from brand to brand, so even if your bindings are set the same as previous, you may be moving about more to provide the required/desired inputs. Similar reasoning applies to actual binding location on the board itself.