First chair

[Harmless]

When you start with Hardboots, start SLOW, you may be used to over correcting with softies. And dont force the board to do too much. Once you find the sweet spot of your board, you should be doing good.

[softbootsurfer]

Oh okay, didn't realize you were already making carves happen in your softies. Then sure, try the HB's first if you want. If you just can't get any joy, then maybe switch back to the softies and get a refresher on carving on familiar gear. FYI, softbootsailer (sic) does not use hardboots, so I'm not sure what qualifies him to say warming up on softboots before hardboots is ridiculous.

Now, trying hardboots without already knowing how to carve in softboots would be ridiculous. Glad you're past that point!

Whoah! :D

Jack... my reasoning was as follows :p

1 When I saw his 1st Post on his Angles 48 f 42 b and that he rode that way all last season...

2 I have used HB twice, once a couple years ago...

3 Many of the HB carvers that have ridden at Milk over the last 26 years and drawn beautiful lines never used SB first ?

[Puddy Tat]

Will do one last tweak, they bumped up the starting date..

IT'S TOMMORROW!

OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG!

I loveeeeeeee snowboarding. <3

So are we getting a first day report today?

[Odd Job]

Wow ok, opening day only had 2 runs open, neither had enough real estate to carve top to bottom even on a softboot setup.

I almost died with my hardboot setup, in fact I did an aerial cart wheel and landed on my head.. (from a nose dive).. OOPS. My first day of hardbooting didn't go so great...

But I did feel how much FASTER it liked to carve, that locked in feeling going at X mph on softboots, then going X+Y on softboots that leads to that chattery feeling... well I swear it's X+Y+50 on hardboots for a clean carve.

I'll try again when wider trails open up. (if I carved uphill to slow down a bit on the steep run, I was going to be out of real estate on the downhill edges carve, and if I didn't carve uphill ... well.. speed, and it's my first day/first time on hardboots.. yeah...)

Overall despite the disappointment, I liked it :D woohoo!!!

PS: How do you skid with a 175cm board? It almost doesn't like the standard downhill edge skidded turn I do with my softboot board (or is it cause of the rust?) I have to almost jerk it around.. OR snowboard like someone is skiing with straight skis, up unweight + rotate + come down an edge. It was a SCARY feeling trying to even do skidded turns with an alpine deck. I'm kind of intimidated.

[BobD]

PS: How do you skid with a 175cm board? It almost doesn't like the standard downhill edge skidded turn I do with my softboot board (or is it cause of the rust?) I have to almost jerk it around.. OR snowboard like someone is skiing with straight skis, up unweight + rotate + come down an edge. It was a SCARY feeling trying to even do skidded turns with an alpine deck. I'm kind of intimidated.

When you start out (coming from soft boots), It helps to lower the angle of the rear binding by several degrees. You are unlikely to boot out at this stage of the game, but you will feel more comfortable to skid your way out of trouble. As you get used to the set up, you can increase the binding angle to avoid boot out.

[hoffmac11]

to stop its alot like soft boot snowboarding...just lean forward to take the weight of the back foot and kick it around..i would definitely practice this at slow speeds, then go faster and faster..cause sooner or later, someone will cross in front of you and you need to know how to stop quickly..cause next to sg skiing, alpine snowboarding is the fastest thing on the mountain. and i know you can get that board around,from previous threads im pretty sure we weigh the same(im 220lbs) and i ride a 180cm board(and its 23.5cm wide) and i can get it around without to much difficulty.just takes practice!

but isnt alpine boarding fun! ive been out twice this year on mine and theres nothing like it!! im just praying for more snow now.....

[digger jr]

Yea S.B.S. you better watch it. ;)

[Odd Job]

When you start out (coming from soft boots), It helps to lower the angle of the rear binding by several degrees. You are unlikely to boot out at this stage of the game, but you will feel more comfortable to skid your way out of trouble. As you get used to the set up, you can increase the binding angle to avoid boot out.

Regarding stance, I forgot to mention, is it supposed to be hard as hell to clip in? My feet just does not want to move in that direction as I clip in, I can force it t hat way standing up, or should I change my stance settings? (width, splay.. etc?)

This is with about 10 degrees of splay btw... I measured my inseam quickly last night (not caring about accuracy too much), 30 inch inseam. I think I'm using a 19 inch stance or wider right now. Going to change my stances again. I am naturally very duck footed I guess. and when first snowboarding was riding with 21/-15. I've been told I run like a duck too...

Would pictures of my knees or feet help?

[BobD]

Most people like some splay in hard boots 5 to 10 degrees is common. Unlike skiing we don't have to have symmetry, and we can use cants and lift to arrive at a comfortable stance, but the leg joints still need to move naturally. It may well be be that you need some boot work as well.

[Odd Job]

What would you recommend for a knock kneed person? (knees closer together than feet if i "unduck them", feet also tend to form a slight arch and/or i'm kinda standing on the outsides of my feet.)

Everything I try feels "ok", and that's the problem. (softboot, hardboot, bleh).

I adjusted my boot cants to down position so they work with my knock knees.

[Puddy Tat]

How do you skid with a 175cm board? It almost doesn't like the standard downhill edge skidded turn I do with my softboot board (or is it cause of the rust?) I have to almost jerk it around.. OR snowboard like someone is skiing with straight skis, up unweight + rotate + come down an edge. It was a SCARY feeling trying to even do skidded turns with an alpine deck. I'm kind of intimidated.

I as your angles get steeper pushing your board around with your heels and toes of your back foot becomes ineffective. I found I had to think about skidding the board by initiating the skid by turning my pivoting my back hip in the direction i wanted the board to skid.

Regarding stance, I forgot to mention, is it supposed to be hard as hell to clip in?

This is why I step-ins and refuse to buy Sidewinders until Fin releases a step-in version.

Dave

[John Gilmour]

Oh okay, didn't realize you were already making carves happen in your softies. Then sure, try the HB's first if you want. If you just can't get any joy, then maybe switch back to the softies and get a refresher on carving on familiar gear. FYI, softbootsailer (sic) does not use hardboots, so I'm not sure what qualifies him to say warming up on softboots before hardboots is ridiculous.

Now, trying hardboots without already knowing how to carve in softboots would be ridiculous. Glad you're past that point!

Whoah! :D

If you ride a super thin board for your foot size you won't want bias at all.. I use Gilmour bias mostly on board that are slightly too wide. It helps give you leverage. Also great for getting carving performance out of a board that you selected as a wider board for powder and soft snow.

I ran bias with 26.5 - 27.5 boots on a 18cm wide 158cm Madd but doing the same bias was not possible with a 18cm wide 180cm Madd with 32meter side cut radius because the board did not flare enough from the waist to the bindings to allow for it. In that case I had to use use reverse bias to reduce overhang.

I find it difficult to really rail a all mountain or powder board without Gilmour bias....it's just too much leverage on my ankles at speed without it .

[Transistor Rhythm]

A 175 is a bit long for a beginner, unless you have ideal circumstances a lot. A board in the 165 range makes a lot of things easier. When I don't have ideal circumstances for carving, like bumpy snow, narrow or flat trails or crowds I always take my shortest board (168 with a longer oldschool nose shape).

It carves at lower speed, doesn't use much space and skids way easier. Also my carving in general improved a lot when I went back to using a shorter board after going to longer boards too soon.

[Odd Job]

My boots are 24.5 performance fit (feet are 25.6)

if I angle the boots such so that my naked feet are touched the edges of the board, I get about 54 degrees on front foot or so depending on stance width.

My board is 175cm prior with 18cm waist, 12 m sidecut.

I felt like using higher angles so I jacked the front angle up to 58, my heel is right over the edge, but my naked front food is about .5 inches or .4 inches inbound. Rear foot is biased towards toe, rear heel is inbound about the same amount like .5 or .4 inches.

Rear foot is booting out but measured with protracter is about 75 degrees booting out.

(Am I doing the bias wrong?) I feel like I need to bias based on what I've read on these forums. (Or should I be biasing at lower angles?)

PS: Gilmour bias works with my 25.6 cm waist softboot board with a big flaring 7.95m sidecut, except I notice increased effort in softboots from the higher stance angles compared to something more sane like 30/15 without bias. Not sure if it's the lever action working against me (I could not get my naked feet over any edge, just slightly closer or else the inbound would be insane, my softboots are longer than my feet, so I figured that't give me extra leverage, I also use palmer plates and moved the toe ramps out to the max on both feet), or if it's simply due to the fact softboots aren't meant for those kind of angles...

Front foot centered -> (kind of, i have my heel cups moved towards the min which is for a size 9 boot, so I'm essentially "heel side" biased on the front foot due to my foot isze

rear foot -> flipped mounting disc perpendicular, moved it as for towards toeside as I could

I'm riding with slightl lower angles too now, 42/30 instead of 48/42 for even more increased leverage with my foot size. (Should I put the angles down?).

PS: got the heel cups replaced on my rome 390 cause I managed to crack them. Got new heelcups from the current rome 390's, somehow they are smaller, cause when measured with a protractor, I'm binding out at like 85 degrees. (Yet I can't hold/recover from an EC heel side carve for my life, the second I start I slow down and .... I'm stuck there... (I think maybe heel side the edge locks in more where on toe side the board can chater chtter chatter but ur in a better position to get up off the carve?)) orrrr maybe it's rust!

I'm aching all over and wont' be riding today or tommorrow probably. It hurts to lift my head up off the pillow among other stuff, haha.

If you ride a super thin board for your foot size you won't want bias at all.. I use Gilmour bias mostly on board that are slightly too wide. It helps give you leverage. Also great for getting carving performance out of a board that you selected as a wider board for powder and soft snow.

I ran bias with 26.5 - 27.5 boots on a 18cm wide 158cm Madd but doing the same bias was not possible with a 18cm wide 180cm Madd with 32meter side cut radius because the board did not flare enough from the waist to the bindings to allow for it. In that case I had to use use reverse bias to reduce overhang.

I find it difficult to really rail a all mountain or powder board without Gilmour bias....it's just too much leverage on my ankles at speed without it .

[Steve Prokopiw]

But your final sentence puts it all in a nutshell....There is simply no substitue for riding with,at minimum,a sensible and more experienced rider who cares to see you do well,and, at best an experienced instructor and/or coach who can and will break things down into meaningful and achievable segments. At least get someone to video some of your efforts;not always easy,I know,but perhaps less expensive than a private instructor.While a picture may say a thousand words,video speaks volumes.Good luck.I hope you recover quickly and progress well.

[Odd Job]

If you'd like to see a video, email me this name @ gmail.

But your final sentence puts it all in a nutshell....There is simply no substitue for riding with,at minimum,a sensible and more experienced rider who cares to see you do well,and, at best an experienced instructor and/or coach who can and will break things down into meaningful and achievable segments. At least get someone to video some of your efforts;not always easy,I know,but perhaps less expensive than a private instructor.While a picture may say a thousand words,video speaks volumes.Good luck.I hope you recover quickly and progress well.

[Odd Job]

I was reading more on stance width, and read about the "shoulder width"... My shoulder width is 21.5 or 22 inches (self measuring is kinda hard)

My stance has been 18 or 19 (not sure, tinkered on the hill yesterday, I know I started at about 19.x), and I'm bow legged, I think it's time to widen the stance considerably....

[kieran]

I would pull the whole gilmour bias thing out of the equation. Just center the bindsings on the board and adjust your stance as you see fit. I have never used the gilmour bias, and can ride just fine.

gotta agree here, for my particular idea of 'fine' ... maybe try using the fuego method to set your rear binding angle, then without mounting your front binding, clip into it and pick an angle at the front that feels comfortable relative to your rear foot position.

something you might want to try is getting the 5-position lean adjusters and using those instead of the RAB/BTS until you know what sort of lean positions work best for you.

[Odd Job]

Should I finish the Fuego before or after setting up my bindings? ;) lol

Haven't had a chance to tinker around with my hardboot set up, going to try 3 cant in the front 0 rear today along with a wider stance and no bias.

[Odd Job]

Going to maybe try for my 2nd time on this board this Friday.

I switched to a 20 inch stance, 3 degree cant front, 0 degree rear.

I realized something funny today, the bumpers off one end of the binding is "off the board", is this normal when using a cant disk? the other end is solidly to the board. Same if I switch the bindings, same lift.

[Chris]

You must have TD1's right?

Depending on the angle of the plate on your disk you can get some gap between the bumper and your board. I used to use a large diameter stainless washer or two to take up the space.

Let us know how you do next time out!

[Odd Job]

i put it between the board and the bumper?

It is quite a large gap, I might consider switching it back... (what would happen if I left it alone?)

[John H]

How big a gap is there? Pics would help clarify.

[Odd Job]

here is a pic

[John H]

I haven't had TD1's in a while but that looks like a bumper from the zero degree cant set of bumpers. Are both bumpers you have the same thickness? If they are then you have the wrong bumpers for a 3 degree cant disc. The 0,3 and 6 degree cant discs each had dedicated bumpers of different thicknesses.