Last day of hard booting

[softbootsurfer]

I've known a handful.

Hardboot carving is a pursuit of mastery. One that never really ends, but asymptotically approaches perfection. I think some people just give up on that, or they think they'll never be as good as they'd hoped.

Softboot riding doesn't really demand that you spend years mastering it - you can if you want to, but as long as you can cruise around the mountain with your friends and not make them wait, it's all good. You can be terminally mediocre at it and have fun, while being terminally mediocre at hardbooting is not fun and often painful.

Master Jack,

You should include this in the Wikipedia definition of Alpine Snowboarding...

[valsam]

I've known a handful.

Hardboot carving is a pursuit of mastery. One that never really ends, but asymptotically approaches perfection. I think some people just give up on that, or they think they'll never be as good as they'd hoped.

Softboot riding doesn't really demand that you spend years mastering it - you can if you want to, but as long as you can cruise around the mountain with your friends and not make them wait, it's all good. You can be terminally mediocre at it and have fun, while being terminally mediocre at hardbooting is not fun and often painful.

Very well said!

And i agree that some people give up on hardooting because they never can get as good as they hoped but also i think that alot of people give up on it because they realize as the years go by that they can't be as good as they use to be because of old age!

Come on guys you have to realize that there ain't no viagra for hardbooting!

I still play basketball at the age of 46 and i would be the dumbest person in the world if i thought that i am better now than when i was 26!!!!!!!

[Jack M]

Very well said!

And i agree that some people give up on hardooting because they never can get as good as they hoped but also i think that alot of people give up on it because they realize as the years go by that they can't be as good as they use to be because of old age!

Come on guys you have to realize that there ain't no viagra for hardbooting!

I still play basketball at the age of 46 and i would be the dumbest person in the world if i thought that i am better now than when i was 26!!!!!!!

Thanks guys. You know what's weird is I've been doing this for 20 years and at 37 I feel like I'm still getting better. Must be all the new tech.

[Mike T]

Thanks guys. You know what's weird is I've been doing this for 20 years and at 37 I feel like I'm still getting better. Must be all the new tech.

Definitely still getting better, at 41. I feel like I can keep improving for a while.

[Gcarve]

Well, I'm 54, and I feel like I've taken a huge step forward in my Carving abilities this season, thanks to a complete update of all my equipment.

[softbootsurfer]

Being Very Old and a Mediocre Softbooter is better than being Real Good and Dead I suppose...:)

[valsam]

Well, I'm 54, and I feel like I've taken a huge step forward in my Carving abilities this season, thanks to a complete update of all my equipment.

As the years go by it's natural to improve in technique i see the difference every season in my riding but despite that i try to work out at least 4 times a week, stamina, bones and muscles ain't the same that the where 10 years ago,the same run's that i did non stop at max speed ,now i need to make a stop somewhere to catch my breath and relieve my aching legs,that's why i turned to a more forging setup (softer 3 buckle hardboots,softer,forgiving smaller and wider AM alpine board) that when i try to overdue it(chater and nose fold),it warns me that I'm not for that any more!

[snowboardfast]

I think you have to be in way better shape to ride soft boots all day due to the fact that you have to work harder with your legs to make up for what the boots and bindings won't do in comparison to a hardboot set up. I really like the higher level of performance of a hardboot set up for all around free riding even if I am not carving perfect turns all of the time. On steep terrain it was really hard on my feet to ride soft boots and too much work to hold an edge. Much eaiser and more fun to ride steep terrain with hardboots. If I wanted to do lots of tricks and ride switch than I would like soft boots. I suck at tricks and switch but that is just me. I will be riding hardboots for however long I will be able to continue to snow board which I hope is a long time.

[nurse ben]

When i started back to boarding this Spring, it was in hard boots (Scarpa TX, an AT boot). I did have a stiff soft boot set up as a back up (Driver X/Flow), but I never even mounted them, just played with my Scarpa and dremmeled the lock mode until it had lots of play. I ended up getting some UPZ ATB, which I rode unlocked and totally love, not stiff by any means.

For folks looking to hard boots, but hesitant to try them due to the "stiffy factor", all you need to do is get some UPZ hardboots and run them with softer tongues and unlock the cuff. This was how I rode Dynafits years ago and it still works for these forty something legs :o

I never liked soft boots because they are a pain to lace, a pain to get in and out of bindings, and they tend to get wet and wear fastere than hardboots. I guess if you want a really low angle set up, then maybe softies make more sense, but I ran mine at very low angles to start and they rode fine; i just increased the angles to improve performance :)

My son, a dedicated soft boot carver was "forced" to ride hardboots for the last two days of our summer trip to Colorado. He hated it for a few hours, then he liked it okay for the next few hours, then he realized how much better he rode and how much more stability, power, and speed he could maintain. To make a long story short, I got him his own pair of UPZ for next season and our hardboot quiver has grown to three

I'd have to agree on soft boots being more tiring than hardboots, esp when riding hard snow. I get way more support and control with hard boots, no question about it, but I am also riding an AM board, which is more forgiving.

I realize this is a carving forum, but hard boots aren't just for carving, just saying.

[Gcarve]

I will be riding hardboots for however long I will be able to continue to snow board which I hope is a long time.

My sentiments exactly

[Odd Job]

Just curious John, how are you laying it over at that speed with a softboot board and getting that type of turn radius out of it?

Would you ride the same way on the East coast?

Just got my hardboot setup, but I spent all of last season softboot carving. $ is tight so I still have those Rome 390 bindings with the dreaded heelcup. I found I could do the pureboarding heel grab and EC on heel side sort of unreliably, but had MAJOR trouble getting back up, was using insane angles of about 50-60+ just to see if I could do heel side lay downs. (total loss of lateral support, interestingly enough toe side lay downs were still effortless)

My board's sidecut is also pretty tight. 7.95M 160cm length, I'm about 223 lbs with a mondo size 25.6 ish foot, but in a size 9 softboot. (I spent a lot of time last season tweaking my binding setup and getting the gilmour bias just right, I actually mounted the rome 390 bindings the wrong way perpendicular just so I could bias them to the heel/toe edge even further than possible just adjusting the heel cups alone)

The C-60 is a killer skidding binding for Boarder X (So say others) though I just can not ride the Burton bindings because the outer ridge of the heel cup (see above post) sticks out too far from where my heel actually resides in the boot.

Two things design wise..

A heel cup band can be raised (Lifting it away from the snow so it hits at a higher board angle (usually accomplished with a lift kit) or the band cann be made thinner.

A thin heel band does not guarantee that your actual heel is close to the edge however... The Ride bindings... have thin heel cup but the high back sticks so far inwards and is not tapered in thickness... so your actual heel gets pushed inwards.

A boot with a very thick liner and outer boot in the heel area also causes the same issue. (Oddly some stiff boots have chunky liners which can kill performance).

I have never been able to make any Burton Soft Boot binding perform well. I always boot out at about 50-55 degrees. So I no longer even try to use them. For low angles like in BX I am sure they work ok. The Union binding have a sliding heel cup- ideal for "Gilmour Bias" as you do not have to give up micro stance width adjustment in terms of your disc mounting holes in exchange for "Gilmour Bias". You merely loosen a screw on each side of the binding and slide the heel cup. The Catek FR2 can also be adjusted this way... but you must take apart the binding to do so... it is not an on slope quick adjustment.

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The conditions were death cookies mixed in with icy groomed snow..with some loose packed pow on top...not ideal...at all..

Even with substantial injuries (and less supportive gear...... if your gear is set up properly- the board (Rossignol Judge Split tail - with cracked tail Powder board 168cm) and boots (Burton andy warhol- a modified Hail model) and bindings (2007 Union Force DLX-fantastic ankle straps!- this particular binding was shot..as all the straps need replacing and are held together with duct tape and chunks of cut up beach sandals to add stiffness to where it once was.) do most of the work. You just ride the jet stream and act as a pilot redirecting the G-forces into the snow. Even I was broken in this video as I had two badly sprained ankles and a torn rear leg Gastronemius and Soleus..(calf muscles) I just did this for a student of mine to take home to watch. But as you can see- softboots do not rob me of control at higher speeds at all. I also do not need a lot of boot stiffness as the board tilt exceeds 60 degrees. (it's a sine / cosine type thing) at under 45 degrees of board tilt you need the most boot support...So I try to avoid excessively loading that angle range ...say 38-52 degrees... completely while pulling high G's (as that is what injured me in the first place..lol)

Because of my injuries I can only do heelside turns in this video...toeside turns stresses the calf (pulls) too much in its injured state. My ankles were also loose and shifting around bone wise under the skin. yuck...

Too stiff a highback is similar to overly stiff suspension in a car..where a car skips instead of maintaining road surface contact over uneven surfaces... stiff will let you dig in.... but when forces build up... it can really chatter insanely and bounce abruptly- sending huge shock through your feet and knees. I happen to think the Highback flex and height on my Unions is the best I have used..and it is no where near as stiff as some bindings.

[John Gilmour]

Just curious John, how are you laying it over at that speed with a softboot board and getting that type of turn radius out of it?

Would you ride the same way on the East coast?

Last time I was on the East coast I rode that way... at Peak Pitch a Venture Capital meeting.

Just got my hardboot setup, but I spent all of last season softboot carving. $ is tight so I still have those Rome 390 bindings with the dreaded heelcup. I found I could do the pureboarding heel grab and EC on heel side sort of unreliably, but had MAJOR trouble getting back up, was using insane angles of about 50-60+ just to see if I could do heel side lay downs. (total loss of lateral support, interestingly enough toe side lay downs were still effortless)

My board's sidecut is also pretty tight. 7.95M 160cm length, I'm about 223 lbs with a mondo size 25.6 ish foot, but in a size 9 softboot. (I spent a lot of time last season tweaking my binding setup and getting the gilmour bias just right, I actually mounted the rome 390 bindings the wrong way perpendicular just so I could bias them to the heel/toe edge even further than possible just adjusting the heel cups alone)

Ebay something..and buy these. I'm sure your sister has a bike in the garage she outgrew years ago. Craigslist it- buy her Kim Kardashians new trendy pocketbook at Kmart and spend the rest to get some decent bindings- sell your board as a complete and buy an old 2004 Never Summer ..the older the better about $80.

http://denver.craigslist.org/spo/2630694751.html

go riding....

Continue selling crap you no longer use... (minimize and qualitize)

After you craigslist out your garage ( and two of your neighbor's garages for 50% commission ) and ebay whatever is shippable.... buy the that crazy Centurian style UFC sidecut derived freeride/BX soft boot board from Virus....which I can't find on his website....

edited...

http://shop.virus-snowsports.com/en/shop/produkt/freeride-snowboards/virus-ufc-ultimate-freecarve-boardercross.htm

hmmmm or an Oxbow (never tried it though) Or a that killer Donek freecarving softie deck the Razor .. Do not try to do what I do with a powderboard... it's just a stupid exercise anyhow... to make a powderboard carve (like trying to do a crossword blindfolded- it is about that hard...). I only did it to be able to carve hard uphill from groomers to get a high line to the snowfields for powder that no one else could get to. Or just buy the UFC Alpine model from Virus and have it be your only board....it rides powder like you would not believe.

This years Vans soft boot..the Aura has a good flex profile to get down.

[leeho730]

Being Very Old and a Mediocre Softbooter is better than being Real Good and Dead I suppose...:)

Only the good die young... ;-)

Virus Centurion board can be accessed from the "shop" page... It seems that his latest FLP freeride board also takes UFC nose...

[scrapster]

Only the good die young... ;-)

Virus Centurion board can be accessed from the "shop" page... It seems that his latest FLP freeride board also takes UFC nose...

I think Bola has a UFC in stock--along with some nice, older SG BX boards that would work nicely. But big props go to the Donek Razor, which is borderline perfection for softy carving.

[shawndoggy]

My favorite days involve soft snow not firm. On untracked days I prefer steeps, bumps and trees. I'm too mediocre on hbs for that to be fun. Air, slashy laybacks and stopping on a dime are all much safer for me on softies. Last year the weather gods put a lot of those days on the weekends for me so softies it was.

If conditions are more marginal/firm then it's back to hbs.

I also started hardbooting while my kids were doing ski team. Something new to keep me engaged on the same old mountain. Now that my kids are older and faster and freeskiing, softies lend themselves to riding with skiers much more so than hbs.

Shoot, I'd tele on the right days and have a set of at gear if funds allowed. There's more than one way down and all can be fun. Variety

Keeps it fresh.

[Steve Prokopiw]

For me the 'never going back to soft' aspect of hardbooting has as much to do with variable terrain and conditions as any other factor.A few years back when I gave it a another go on a good quality soft setup,I found that even with weeks to re-adapt that I would not be able to approximate the performance in any terrain that I could achieve,or would attempt for that matter, on hardboots.That's not to say that there aren't softbooters who can school me;but when I ride with said softbooters,I have no problem keeping up with my chosen equipment,and experience pure hell if I try to ride their equipment.To each his own.

I agree with tpalka on his point about hardboots doing the work for a rider and softboots requiring more precise movements.From there,however, I go off in a different direction.I have always stated to my students that hardboots can do half the work in carving initially,but I personally channel the characteristics of hardboots from that point into higher performance on nearly all terrain.The strength I have to flex the boot and drive the board even allows me the ability to play in the park,where I harbor no illusions of being competetive,but still have a blast on my hardboots without the abject pain that soft boots and bindings cause me.In fact,were I to try and conform in order to re-enter the realm of fashionability for say,AASI I would be choosing boots and bindings that I would want to perform so much like my hardboots but that would be much less comfortable and much harder to get into that I see no reason,personally, to get out of my hardboots.

[John Gilmour]

I still ride hard boots even though they kill me after a few days of riding. I am looking to buy a new pair this year.

The only issue for me of riding only one set up... is if I am riding hardboots..initially my ankles and calves get stronger... if I am just plain out of shape. Then after awhile my calves and ankles start to get weaker- as if I was in a cast (Happens to me by February) and that's about when I get vulnerable to hurting my ankles. Because I am going more ballistic in technique but my ankles are shrinking.

By hardbooting early season- getting some initial quadriceps strength and Vastus medialis strength and knee stabilization and initial ankle strength - I swap every few days to softies to strengthen my calves and ankles.

It works out well as I get shin bang relief when I am in soft boots and ankle relief and a quad work out when I am in hard boots.

I tend to reduce my injuries this way (provided I do not hit any trees or snowmaking gear of lift towers at speed)

TO the OP.. Vin Quenneville is the only (high level) revert ie...softboots- hardboots- softboots I know of in that he has not set foot in a hardboot set up for over a decade AFAIK.

[scrapster]

It's tough. So much does relate to the individual--including that person's physique. At a whopping :rolleyes: 140lbs, I can barely flex my stiffest softboots (Deeluxe GTI's) and my Driver X's aren't much softer. Add them to a nice, form-fitting carbon binding at moderate angles and I can get quite close to some of my hardboot experiences--with the right board. Of course, not everyone can do this, but I'll happily enjoy having as many options as possible.